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Old 05-05-2009, 09:38 PM   #1
OUScooby
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Default EJ20K how good is it?

I'm thinking about getting and EJ20K block pistons and rods out of an v4 JDM STi. My question is how reliable is this motor, I hear they have a tendency to detonate on 91 pump gas. I'm in Cali so the best we get at the pump is 91.
I would have to get a crank for it, I think one from an EJ18 will fit (can anyone confirm this?) and heads turbo drivetrain and ECU from my 04 WRX.

My question is if I build a EJ20K/EJ207 hybrid will I really see any performance gains? The block is stronger right, so I should be able to push more boost? Or would the heads and valves from the EJ207 limit what I could get from the block.

Would I need to worry about running it on 91 octane if its tuned for it and it's a hybrid motor?

I'd probably get bigger injectors (565cc?) and I would plan on eventually upgrading the turbo, right now I've still got the stock td04.

Any help much appreciated.
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Old 05-06-2009, 07:43 AM   #2
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The block is nothing special only the pistons are. They are forged items, the rest is as stock as anything else. Only the V4 heads are someting special. They have hollow intake valves, sodium-filled exhaust valves, shim-under-buckets and cams with more duration.
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Old 05-06-2009, 01:49 PM   #3
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everything ive heard is that the STI cams are the same as all others, well, out of the EJ20k anyways
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Old 05-06-2009, 02:54 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marnix View Post
The block is nothing special only the pistons are. They are forged items, the rest is as stock as anything else. Only the V4 heads are someting special. They have hollow intake valves, sodium-filled exhaust valves, shim-under-buckets and cams with more duration.
Only the Type-RA ej20k has these features. Most are standard shim over bucket lifters.
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Old 05-06-2009, 02:57 PM   #5
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STI is shim under bucket, from what ive read the pistons are forged in the STI models, but besides those two things they're the same. but the shim under bucket is nice for the higher rev...
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Old 05-06-2009, 02:59 PM   #6
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biggest thing ive heard about with reliability is the rod bearings going out due to improper oil changes and old age... but if they're replaced doesnt seem to have any major trouble...
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Old 05-06-2009, 03:19 PM   #7
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ej20k and ej207 heads are some of the best heads you can get as far as flow capacity and rev capabilities. the ej20k blocks arent anything incredible, but they are nice enough. just make sure you either get it tuned right off with engine management, or at the very least run some octane booster (torco). it might also be a good idea to split the block apart and redo all the bearings
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Old 05-06-2009, 04:08 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rei_Akira View Post
STI is shim under bucket, from what ive read the pistons are forged in the STI models, but besides those two things they're the same. but the shim under bucket is nice for the higher rev...
I'd like confirmation on this, but I'm 99% sure that only the STI Type Ra is shim under bucket, the normal STI is shim over bucket.

It took me weeks of searching to find replacement shims for my shim under bucket setup, every parts website I checked listed the STI EJ20K as shim over bucket. Only when I finally found a listing for the Type RA did it produce shim under bucket numbers.
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Old 05-06-2009, 04:55 PM   #9
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i know the normal EJ20K WRX motor rev's to 6.9k, the STI rev's to 7.9k. ive been told this is attributed to the shim under bucket. i havnt pulled off the valve covers on my motor, but my tach redlines at 7.9k and its an STI motor.
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Old 05-06-2009, 06:45 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splinter View Post
I'd like confirmation on this, but I'm 99% sure that only the STI Type Ra is shim under bucket, the normal STI is shim over bucket.

It took me weeks of searching to find replacement shims for my shim under bucket setup, every parts website I checked listed the STI EJ20K as shim over bucket. Only when I finally found a listing for the Type RA did it produce shim under bucket numbers.
my v3 sti and v3 sti r/ra are IDENTICAL (both shim under bucket, same valves and pistons etc)
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Old 05-06-2009, 07:25 PM   #11
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prob the same for the V4 then too, all the specs i looked at seemed to say that anyways...
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Old 05-06-2009, 09:57 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splinter View Post
Only the Type-RA ej20k has these features. Most are standard shim over bucket lifters.
that would be incorrect. i have a set of v4 sti heads in the shop right now being rebuilt. the valves are indeed something special, as they cost between $950-$1100 for 16 valves i had them priced from a dealer in japan by a fellow member. apparently they are not the same as any other valve in any other version of the 20k or any ej series. i ended up have a set of custom ss valves made by supertech, due to the extreme cost of replaceing with oem valves.
i recently learned all this and the motor as yet to be in my car...

you wont be able to run it off your 04 ecu either, there is some difference in the cam position sensor and a few other things from the older ecu's vs. newer ecu's.
im going to run my 20k off a 98 2.5 rs ecu with a greddy emanage. i dont care if it doesnt untilize every ounce of potential from the motor, cuz either way ill be better off than i am with the 130 hp 2.2l n/a thats there now...
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Old 05-06-2009, 10:54 PM   #13
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Can you confirm that your non-RA STI heads are shim under bucket?
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Old 05-06-2009, 11:27 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splinter View Post
Can you confirm that your non-RA STI heads are shim under bucket?
mine are
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Old 05-07-2009, 12:14 AM   #15
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Maybe its only the UK/Aussie 20K sti motors that are shim over bucket?

I dunno, subaru doesnt seem to have any consistency about what they put in their motors.
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Old 05-07-2009, 03:49 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splinter View Post
I dunno, subaru doesnt seem to have any consistency about what they put in their motors.
agreed. what ive come to understand is that 95+ % of the time what is documented is correct. but there are exceptions, and often theres no rhyme or reason...
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Old 05-07-2009, 08:43 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splinter View Post
Can you confirm that your non-RA STI heads are shim under bucket?
shim under bucket post #8
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1752492
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Old 05-07-2009, 09:14 AM   #18
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Non-STI WRX with EJ20K are shim-over-bucket (have blank intake manifold)
STI WRX with EJ20K are shim-under-bucket (have red intake manifold)

Valves and valve springs are different, too.

MY98 EJ20K STI MT WRX STI sedan and wagon
ECU 22611AE360
7.9K RPM
Cams 13***AA390
Shim-under-bucket
Injectors 16611AA231

MY97 EJ20K STI MT WRX STI sedan and wagon
ECU 22611AD170
7.9K RPM
Cams 13***AA240
Shim-under-bucket
Injectors 16611AA231

MY97-98 EJ20K non-STI MT WRX sedan
ECU 22611AC722
7.5K RPM
Cams 13***AA240
Shim-over-bucket
Injectors 16611AA231

MY98 EJ20G MT WRX wagon
ECU 22611AE380
7.0K RPM
Cams 13***AA230
Shim-over-bucket
Injectors 16611AA101 (grey tops)

MY97 EJ20G MT WRX wagon
ECU 22611AC731
7.0K RPM
Cams 13***AA230
Shim-over-bucket
Injectors 16611AA101 (grey tops)

Oh and Subaru knows perfectly well what they put into their engines or into their cars (except closed deck maybe ) most confusion comes from owners/people misinterpreting engine types and identification.
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Old 05-07-2009, 10:53 AM   #19
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What I don't understand is if the shim under bucket is so common, why did I end up having to go through a russian parts catalog in order to find the part number?

No one lists them.
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Old 05-07-2009, 12:33 PM   #20
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marnix saves again! from now on im just coming to you with all my questions

and i assume the 7.9K RPM is the redline not the fuel cut on the ecu (?)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splinter View Post
What I don't understand is if the shim under bucket is so common, why did I end up having to go through a russian parts catalog in order to find the part number?

No one lists them.
they really not that common. only a few model years and only on the sti's. and we're talking about 11 or 12 year old parts. its hard enough just to find the right part numbers for what you need, unless there are people like Jaxx and Marnix around to provide/confirm part numbers. and THEN you have to find a place that can either order from SOJ or has their own equivalent parts
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Old 05-07-2009, 12:40 PM   #21
linsavy
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fuel cut on my 6S ecu (V3 STi Type R)was 8250. I hit it a couple of times while autoxing.
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Old 05-07-2009, 01:03 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by linsavy View Post
fuel cut on my 6S ecu (V3 STi Type R)was 8250. I hit it a couple of times while autoxing.
i have the same ecu and thats what ive heard as well (definitely have not hit fuel cut since its not tuned) but i just wanted to make sure that was consistent with the info marnix put up (which would be 7900 redline)

also
the v4 22611AE360 sti ecu is "75"
the v3 22611AD170 sti ecu is "6S"
(apparently)
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Old 05-07-2009, 06:31 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splinter View Post
What I don't understand is if the shim under bucket is so common, why did I end up having to go through a russian parts catalog in order to find the part number?

No one lists them.
http://www.japanparts.com/db/partsli...volkey=&page=4

bottom of page
13202 VALVE EXHAUST GC8 D/E EJ20K 46,900 yen(JPY) (478.38 USD)
13201 VALVE INTAKE GC8 D/E EJ20K 43,400 yen(JPY) (442.68 USD)
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Old 05-07-2009, 07:21 PM   #24
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Those are valves. Not shims.

Furthermore, if you look at the diagram, it clearly illustrates a shim over bucket setup.
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Old 05-07-2009, 07:55 PM   #25
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for the 7900 rpm thats as it is on the instrument cluster, i dont have my motor fully wired in yet so i cant confirm fuel cut....
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