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Old 05-06-2009, 10:42 AM   #1
Millennium Auto
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Default built 2.0L guys with gt30r's or bigger chime in we're having a problem

Ok guys the shop sti is having a problem getting out of the whole when we launch the car at 6500rpm it wheel hops then falls on its face then spools and goes. cars spec ver7 with a reverse intake perrin front mount gt3076 with complete built motor paul at ecs tuned on stock ecu pumpgas with meth. we need suggestions we think the turbo is just to bigg
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Old 05-06-2009, 10:49 AM   #2
subydude
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Lightened flywheel? Anything else in the rotating assembly that's lightened?

I have close to the same motor, but stock turbo (Ver 7 RA-C with VF30) and a lightened flywheel. I have to launch at 6k to get a really good drag style launch at autox events.

I'd say the wheel hop is really killing you. Fix your mounts/bushings and I bet the launch will improve a lot
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Old 05-06-2009, 10:54 AM   #3
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Hmm...

My holset has a 60lb compressor, 9cm turbine (turbine limits it but it probably flows a little more than a 30r). I have a 205, light flywheel and live at 6700ft elevation. I set my LC at 5800. As long as I let the clutch out smooth- quick, but not dumping it, it literally, instantly spools and rips hard out of the hole. No bogging. Not sure what your issue is, but I don't think the problem is having too big of a turbo..
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Old 05-06-2009, 10:58 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralTJI View Post
Hmm...

My holset has a 60lb compressor, 9cm turbine (turbine limits it but it probably flows a little more than a 30r). I have a 205, light flywheel and live at 6700ft elevation. I set my LC at 5800. As long as I let the clutch out smooth- quick, but not dumping it, it literally, instantly spools and rips hard out of the hole. No bogging. Not sure what your issue is, but I don't think the problem is having too big of a turbo..
It could be their clutch. If he's using a "racing clutch" the engagement isn't smooth at all and would cause it to bog.

Best way to launch is look at your dyno graph, find peak torque, and then launch about 1k above it. If you're able to slip the clutch right it should land you right on the torque peak and you'll be gone.

I should clarify my statement as well. Launching at autox like that was with 275 R-comps.
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Old 05-06-2009, 01:17 PM   #5
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with the 30r you need it to be building boost off the line...if you are just holding/blipping the throttle around 6500, it might not be enough to get the turbo out of vac pressure when leaving the line

and if you just didn't go into enough detail and are using LC what psi are you letting it build before releasing the clutch?
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Old 05-06-2009, 02:44 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blowbyu24 View Post
with the 30r you need it to be building boost off the line...if you are just holding/blipping the throttle around 6500, it might not be enough to get the turbo out of vac pressure when leaving the line

and if you just didn't go into enough detail and are using LC what psi are you letting it build before releasing the clutch?

it is on stock ecu we had a two step revlimiter set at 6500 but it did not help it would do the same thing
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Old 05-06-2009, 04:02 PM   #7
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The 30R is definitely not too big.

I have a GT35R on my built EJ207 with an 0.82 exhaust housing which made me 603 whp @ 35ish psi.

I launch using my UTEC two-step, building about 15 psi @ 7000-7500 rpms. I was running a special 5 puck clutch from RPS with an STI pressure plate. I was also using a stock STI flywheel.

I also like to induce a little wheelspin to help get it out of the hole, so I am running 205/55-16 all season tires with 40ish psi in them. Now, my sixty foots aren't stellar... but I pull consistant low 1.7s and the occasional 1.6XX that way. It's enough to get me into the 10s.

Controlling wheelspin is key. Having a clutch that can handle the abuse is key... I went through 4 or 5 clutches before I talked to Robert at RPS.

Here's the thing about the wheelspin though... you've gotta let it bang off the rev limiter a couple times while in 1st to allow the car to catch up to the wheel speed. Then rip into second... otherwise the wheelspin itself will cause you to bog.

Watch this vid, you can hear me pegging the 1st gear limiter as it's fighting for traction, then a slight bog into second... and then... I'm out The EVO had no idea what hit him...


Here, a little too much wheel spin (but the EVO tried harder)


def

Last edited by dug-e-fresh; 05-06-2009 at 04:38 PM.
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Old 05-06-2009, 04:25 PM   #8
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i dont have a built motor =(
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Old 05-06-2009, 04:33 PM   #9
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That is one fast suby.....I envy you.
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Old 05-06-2009, 04:37 PM   #10
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Wow and Wow. Aint that some ****. I like, Alot!
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Old 05-06-2009, 04:37 PM   #11
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wheel hop is in the tires and or suspension. Run a higher psi and watch it disappear.
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Old 05-06-2009, 04:39 PM   #12
dug-e-fresh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wgknestrick View Post
wheel hop is in the tires and or suspension. Run a higher psi and watch it disappear.
And we want to avoid that at ALL COSTS!!! That's what takes out diffs and axles. Wheel-hop is the .

def
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Old 05-06-2009, 06:19 PM   #13
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Have you datalogged the launch?
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Old 05-06-2009, 08:01 PM   #14
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What suspension work? Stock struts? coil overs ect. Ive always seemed to get them off the line better down around 5500-5800 rpms. I hit pretty consitent 1.67-1.7 60 ft
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Old 05-06-2009, 08:07 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Epic Motorsports View Post
What suspension work? Stock struts? coil overs ect. Ive always seemed to get them off the line better down around 5500-5800 rpms. I hit pretty consitent 1.67-1.7 60 ft
What's your setup?

def
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Old 05-06-2009, 08:45 PM   #16
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jdm pinks sti coilovers all white line sway bars stock motor and trans mounts
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Old 05-06-2009, 09:32 PM   #17
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My guess is you upgraded the clutch/flywheel to a pucked/unsprung setup and that is the exact opposite of wht you want for drag racing.. A setup with a pucked clutch and unsprung is for the track/roadracing/autox.. NOT for drag racing.. A lightweight flywheel lightens your momentum through your drivetrain making it extremely hard to get a proper launch in; you'll either bog hard or light them up usually..
If this is the case you should switch to a stock flywheel and at the very least a sprung clutch.. I wouldnt run a pucked clutch either but to each his own..
I run a 30R on my 2.5L and get consistant 1.7-1.6 60'... i pump the gas rapidly at 5K-6K rpm, and when im ready to go i get it right below 6K rpm, pumping the gas VERY fast on and off trying to build boost, but keping it between 5K and 6K.. When i get ready to go i start to let the clutch out, all the while still pumping the gas very fast and keeping the RPM's around 5.5K.. As soon as i feel the slightest bit of the clutch moving the car (literally RIGHT when it touches, car will move maybe a inch if that) i let off the clutch as fast as possible basically.. I dont side step it and drop the clutch, but i dont bring it out slow at all; litlerally i pull my foot off as fast as possible.. Using this method the tires will break loose and lessen the shock to the tranny/drivetrain, and the car shouldnt fall outta boost at all and it should pull hard all the way to redline.. You might have to bounce off the rev limiter once or twice before you shift as the wheels will be spinning and you need the car to catch up to the soeed of the wheels.. Shift too early and you'll bog second.. If you have a launch control you can set it for a certain rpm and then just floor the car while the clutch is depressed.. MAkes it much easier so you dont have to watch your rpm/blipping the throttle to get a good launch..
But anyways i hope this helps you out with your launching.. And remember, if you smell clutch at all you slipped the clutch too much and you need to drop it alot faster.. And LITERALLY, i mean as soon as you feel the clutch make contact, you pull your foot straight up off the clutch as fast as possible but DO NOT sidestep it.. You want the clutch to slip the SLIGHTEST bit and removing your foot off extremely fast right as you feel it start to make contact will automatically make the clutch slip the perfect amount.. You wont smell clutch, wont burn the tires out but they should spin through a good part of 1st gear.. Good luck and keep us updated!
BTW sorry for long post but if you follow my method of launching you should net some great times even with a unsprung/pucked clutch.. The combo of a lightweight flywheel and a unsprung clutch, if indeed thats your setup, is a bad combination for getting off the line quick..
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Old 05-06-2009, 09:43 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dug-e-fresh View Post
The 30R is definitely not too big.

I have a GT35R on my built EJ207 with an 0.82 exhaust housing which made me 603 whp @ 35ish psi.

I launch using my UTEC two-step, building about 15 psi @ 7000-7500 rpms. I was running a special 5 puck clutch from RPS with an STI pressure plate. I was also using a stock STI flywheel.

I also like to induce a little wheelspin to help get it out of the hole, so I am running 205/55-16 all season tires with 40ish psi in them. Now, my sixty foots aren't stellar... but I pull consistant low 1.7s and the occasional 1.6XX that way. It's enough to get me into the 10s.

Controlling wheelspin is key. Having a clutch that can handle the abuse is key... I went through 4 or 5 clutches before I talked to Robert at RPS.

Here's the thing about the wheelspin though... you've gotta let it bang off the rev limiter a couple times while in 1st to allow the car to catch up to the wheel speed. Then rip into second... otherwise the wheelspin itself will cause you to bog.

Watch this vid, you can hear me pegging the 1st gear limiter as it's fighting for traction, then a slight bog into second... and then... I'm out The EVO had no idea what hit him...

YouTube - WRX- 10.780 @ 136.21 Andrewtech TXS RPS MTS

Here, a little too much wheel spin (but the EVO tried harder)

YouTube - WRX- 11.003 @ 135.40 TXS Andrewtech RPS

def
FAST! But I got seasick watching that! Your camera guy needs to lay-off the booze!

sotc
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Old 05-06-2009, 10:40 PM   #19
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Maybe:

"Another parameter you might want to raise is the "Rev limit fuel resume", this is located in the Misc category. This parameter controls when will the fueling will resume after hitting the limiter (limiter being LC, FFS or normal). More specific, the ECU will not allow fueling until the manifold ABSOLUTE pressure drops below the value set in this parameter. By default this is set to 1.68 bar/24.36 psi absolute pressure. In practice, if when using LC/FFS the absolute pressure you build is higher than this value, you will experience "car falls on its face""

Thats from Tiny Wrex... Sounds like it COULD be your problem..
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Old 05-07-2009, 11:06 AM   #20
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def your car is nasty!!

Ok so I just had a similar issue as the OP last night running my car. I was on an extremely sticky track and needed some wheelspin to keep things spooled, couldn't get any! even with my LC at 6200 I was bogging. Every run I raised it, but we ran out of time and I never got a good launch. I think def has it right, HIGH LC, and a little wheelspin are what you want.

Quote:
It could be their clutch. If he's using a "racing clutch" the engagement isn't smooth at all and would cause it to bog.
I think you have a point... too "grabby" can create some issues
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Old 05-07-2009, 07:29 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dug-e-fresh View Post
What's your setup?

def
vf22, 93oct, alky, sti drivetrain, Helix DNA Coilovers , cusco motor and trans mounts and Kartboy pitchstop ect I have the full list somewhere search my sn

Robbieshonda
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Old 05-09-2009, 02:26 AM   #22
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Here's one of my in-car vids with realtime datalogging displayed - note the RPM I'm launching at (UTEC LCM set to 6700), anything lower and I'd bog. I also was running worn RE92s at ~38 psi all around. EJ207 swap, FPGreen 7cm, stock clutch & flywheel, sti v7 suspension.


As you can see, I'm not running anywhere near as much power as Dug-E-Fresh - I don't bounce off the rev limiter in 1st. Yet I have just enough wheel spin so my rpms never drop below 6k during the launch which is right in the meaty part of my power-band. I had some wheel hop when my tire pressures were too low & had too much grip - getting some water on the tires from the burn out box/staying away from the sticky stuff typically helped. Raising your two-step a bit higher would help too.

I'm switching over to a BW s258 (~58 lbs/min) rotated setup soon which should be a bit more tricky to launch.
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Old 05-09-2009, 09:12 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blowbyu24 View Post
with the 30r you need it to be building boost off the line...if you are just holding/blipping the throttle around 6500, it might not be enough to get the turbo out of vac pressure when leaving the line

and if you just didn't go into enough detail and are using LC what psi are you letting it build before releasing the clutch?
Unless your on slicks, this would do nothing but lite all four tires up in smoke.

I launched at 5800 manually and slipped the clutch. 2.0l SZ55 with 450 to the ground. I only bogged when I let the clutch out too fast.
BUt then again, I never managed anything better than a 1.9 60ft.
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Old 05-09-2009, 10:22 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by japslapr View Post
Unless your on slicks, this would do nothing but lite all four tires up in smoke.

I launched at 5800 manually and slipped the clutch. 2.0l SZ55 with 450 to the ground. I only bogged when I let the clutch out too fast.
BUt then again, I never managed anything better than a 1.9 60ft.

If you talk to coolrex he will say " Wheel spin is where its at" or something along those lines. wheels spinning means your boosting not bogging
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Old 05-09-2009, 12:54 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSarv View Post
Maybe:

"Another parameter you might want to raise is the "Rev limit fuel resume", this is located in the Misc category. This parameter controls when will the fueling will resume after hitting the limiter (limiter being LC, FFS or normal). More specific, the ECU will not allow fueling until the manifold ABSOLUTE pressure drops below the value set in this parameter. By default this is set to 1.68 bar/24.36 psi absolute pressure. In practice, if when using LC/FFS the absolute pressure you build is higher than this value, you will experience "car falls on its face""

Thats from Tiny Wrex... Sounds like it COULD be your problem..
Iirc that is only on a 32bit ecu, Millennium is using a 16bit JDM ecu. Frank, have you tried taking it out closer to 7K. Maybe its what it will take with the whole setup considered, wheel/tire combo, coil over settings, tire pressure, etc etc.

Last edited by PumpsGOTAWD; 05-09-2009 at 06:00 PM.
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