Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Saturday August 2, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > Motorsports

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-09-2009, 05:38 PM   #1
MasterKwan
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 98961
Join Date: Oct 2005
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: NOVA
Vehicle:
2003 WRX
Black

Default Track day near Mishap

My buddy tracks an Integra. We were at the track today. Standing near his car just shooting the S between sessions. I looked at his front driver's wheel and noticed something seemed missing. After a couple seconds I realized the bolt that holds the axle into the hub was missing. Not only that but, the entire threaded end of the axle had sheared off. He'd come in from a session not long before. It he'd done out again, there was a good chance his wheel would have popped off because the hub WAS pulling out of the bearings.

What that re-enforces is, if you're at the track, you need to inspect between sessions. I already check my fluids, wheel torque and brake pads every session. Seems like I need to remove the center caps so, I can keep an eye on the axles too.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
MasterKwan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2009, 06:02 PM   #2
misterwaterfallin
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 101091
Join Date: Nov 2005
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Seattle, WA
Default

I nut and bolt my car before every weekend. It seems like for that bolt to back all of the way out it probably started out the day a bit loose. dont forget the loctite as well
misterwaterfallin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2009, 06:26 PM   #3
MasterKwan
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 98961
Join Date: Oct 2005
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: NOVA
Vehicle:
2003 WRX
Black

Default

It didn't back out. The end of the axle sheared off. I'm sure the nut is still attached to it somewhere out on the track.

Seemed like a bad day for cars today. A new Z06 with 1500 miles on it blew running down the main straight. 100 mph, engine blew up, sending a 10 foot flame behind the car and a big flame up and over the hood. They towed it in and the engine was covered in fire retardant.
MasterKwan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2009, 06:46 PM   #4
moosecakes
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 136098
Join Date: Dec 2006
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Brothell, Washington
Vehicle:
07 35r WRX
Maxwell Power

Default

Yep, something identical happened a couple weeks ago during a Nascar race, it was pretty wild.
moosecakes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2009, 06:53 PM   #5
kcook
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 78074
Join Date: Dec 2004
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: NoVA
Vehicle:
2005 STi
Aspen White

Default

what event were you at today?
kcook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2009, 08:43 PM   #6
MasterKwan
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 98961
Join Date: Oct 2005
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: NOVA
Vehicle:
2003 WRX
Black

Default

It was the Summit Point annual spring something or other. Basically it was a FATT on Saturday with motorcycles and pony rides. Numerous Subaru's there including a 2.5RS from DPS (which was surprisingly fast).
MasterKwan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2009, 04:36 AM   #7
CPC
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 123085
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Australia
Vehicle:
2006 WRX

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterKwan View Post
Seems like I need to remove the center caps so, I can keep an eye on the axles too.
It's a good idea to keep them off your track rims. They have a tendency to melt and fall off anyway.

Chris.
CPC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2009, 11:56 AM   #8
Superorb
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 135252
Join Date: Dec 2006
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Denver, CO
Vehicle:
2002 WRX Wagon
86% Operational :(

Default

Craziness. What would cause the axle end to sheer off? Did the axle splines round out the hub?
Superorb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2009, 02:54 PM   #9
mateospeed
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 116317
Join Date: May 2006
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: VIR, CMP, RRR
Vehicle:
2002 WRX...sold:-(

Default

holy crap. I've never heard of that happening!! That's freakin' scary. There's not enough time between sessions to check everything, but holy crap, things like this make me want to hire a pit crew!
-mateo
mateospeed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2009, 02:57 PM   #10
MasterKwan
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 98961
Join Date: Oct 2005
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: NOVA
Vehicle:
2003 WRX
Black

Default

There's typically at least an hour between sessions so, it's not that hard to check for gross damage.

I semi-blame the victim though, they were autozone/napa reman axles. I only buy OEM for parts like that. The splines didn't seem to strip the hub but, like on subaru when that bolt comes loose, there was likely bearing damage.
MasterKwan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2009, 10:21 AM   #11
Patrick Olsen
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 120
Join Date: Jul 1999
Chapter/Region: AKIC
Location: Where the Navy sends me...
Vehicle:
1997 Legacy 2.5GT
QuickSilver Metallic

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterKwan View Post
It didn't back out. The end of the axle sheared off. I'm sure the nut is still attached to it somewhere out on the track.
It almost certainly sheared off due to the excess stress on it caused by the thing being lose to begin with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterKwan View Post
I semi-blame the victim though, they were autozone/napa reman axles. I only buy OEM for parts like that. The splines didn't seem to strip the hub but, like on subaru when that bolt comes loose, there was likely bearing damage.
Maybe newer cars are different, but for my car if I go to the dealer I'm going to get a reman axle, too, and probably from one of the same places that does remans for all the parts places.
Patrick Olsen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2009, 10:23 AM   #12
Superorb
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 135252
Join Date: Dec 2006
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Denver, CO
Vehicle:
2002 WRX Wagon
86% Operational :(

Default

At least the AZ reman axles have warranties.
Superorb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2009, 10:30 AM   #13
MasterKwan
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 98961
Join Date: Oct 2005
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: NOVA
Vehicle:
2003 WRX
Black

Default

Quote:
Maybe newer cars are different, but for my car if I go to the dealer I'm going to get a reman axle, too, and probably from one of the same places that does remans for all the parts places.
Subaru has a reman axle program or you can spend $350 each and buy a new axle. For a car I track, I only use new OEM. I'd trust a subaru reman over AZ any day though.

Axle warranty isn't going to help you when your car hits a wall. If he'd gone back out, I'm pretty sure he'd have crashed it.
MasterKwan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2009, 10:51 AM   #14
Superorb
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 135252
Join Date: Dec 2006
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Denver, CO
Vehicle:
2002 WRX Wagon
86% Operational :(

Default

Is there any benefit to buying aftermarket upgraded axles like ones from DSS?
Superorb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2009, 11:51 AM   #15
MasterKwan
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 98961
Join Date: Oct 2005
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: NOVA
Vehicle:
2003 WRX
Black

Default

Well, my personal experience with DSS axles wasn't good. Fitment was poor, they clunked, were unpainted and for $1200 I expected to get new axle nuts. Even the Autozone replacement axles come with new axle nuts.

In 5 years of tracking, I've never had and OEM axle fail on me.
MasterKwan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2009, 12:11 PM   #16
trhoppe
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 7492
Join Date: Jun 2001
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Hotlanta, GA
Vehicle:
No race cars
www.tomhoppe.com

Default

For an Integra I use new axles from Oreilly. They are $60 each for the new ones (not reman) and so far I've got 8 races on the ones I have in the car. I'll replace them here shortly just for the hell of it considering how much they cost.

-Tom
trhoppe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2009, 12:13 PM   #17
Superorb
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 135252
Join Date: Dec 2006
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Denver, CO
Vehicle:
2002 WRX Wagon
86% Operational :(

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterKwan View Post
Well, my personal experience with DSS axles wasn't good. Fitment was poor, they clunked, were unpainted and for $1200 I expected to get new axle nuts. Even the Autozone replacement axles come with new axle nuts.

In 5 years of tracking, I've never had and OEM axle fail on me.
$1200? Any experience how long the stock ones last that came on the car? I assume you've gotten a new set since stock?
Superorb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2009, 12:37 PM   #18
mick_the_ginge
Citizen Mick
 
Member#: 27646
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Portland, Oregon
Vehicle:
2003 Sleeved 2.5
Oil Dry Sump Goodness

Default

I heard of someone who's flywheel bolt snapped off during a track day, really screwed up his engine
mick_the_ginge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2009, 12:39 PM   #19
Big C
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 3586
Join Date: Jan 2001
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: NOVA
Vehicle:
2000 RSTI Rally Car
2012 STI SWP Hatch

Default

I learned from rallying to nut/bolt the car before every event (using diff color paintmarker each time) and to check certain critical areas (wheels/steering/wheel bearings/brakes) whenever possible. This saved my ass in the Neon at VIR full course when I fried a front caliper and would have been out on track with brake fluid leaking out.

IMO vehicle maintenance should be a bigger topic in the classroom sessions as I've been appalled at what some people go out on track with, mostly because they don't know any better....
Big C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2009, 12:51 PM   #20
STi-MAN
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 70252
Join Date: Sep 2004
Vehicle:
05 STI
blue

Default

I've heard of a porsche owner.. who knew about his radiator hose, which would pop off ocassionally.. he took it to the track and the hose blew.. causing 2 s2k's to be totaled at the event.

we cant catch all the failures that might happen.. but maintenance not only keeps the driver safe, but other drivers on the track.
STi-MAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2009, 12:51 PM   #21
MasterKwan
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 98961
Join Date: Oct 2005
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: NOVA
Vehicle:
2003 WRX
Black

Default

Quote:
IMO vehicle maintenance should be a bigger topic in the classroom sessions as I've been appalled at what some people go out on track with, mostly because they don't know any better....
This is a pet peeve of mine too. Especially when they're dumping fluids on the track in front of me. I give my track buddies crap because they're not nearly as proactive keeping their car's maintained. I've actually reported people who I considered to be a threat out on track. You see they have paper thin pads for instance and you know they're likely to be a problem.

Quote:
$1200? Any experience how long the stock ones last that came on the car? I assume you've gotten a new set since stock?
When I initially did the 6 speed swap, I wanted to continue to use the Legacy GT brakes. To do that, I needed conversion axles that mated the R180 to WRX hubs. Since then, I've done a full STI swap including STI hubs so, I didn't need to use these axles any more and I went back to stock STI axles. I've not had the stock STI axles wear out. Track driving just doesn't seem that hard on them.
MasterKwan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2009, 12:52 PM   #22
Big C
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 3586
Join Date: Jan 2001
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: NOVA
Vehicle:
2000 RSTI Rally Car
2012 STI SWP Hatch

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterKwan View Post
Well, my personal experience with DSS axles wasn't good. Fitment was poor, they clunked, were unpainted and for $1200 I expected to get new axle nuts. Even the Autozone replacement axles come with new axle nuts.

In 5 years of tracking, I've never had and OEM axle fail on me.
I ran the DSS axles for awhile on the rally Neon and while I agree with you I don't think there is a much better option available for most cars (esp fwd). The boots expand at high speed and interfere with some coilovers (too big and too floppy) and for some cars they make them too long and they get the clunking because of binding in the outer CV when you run alot of negative camber (my Neon could run 2deg no problem - more clunked). The fix is to get them to put a shorter bar in and run small zip ties on the boots to prevent them from growing at speed. The axle nut is a small issue to me, since DSS axle nuts suck and OEM axle nuts are like $3 at the dealer.

The last place I would expect any axle to fail (other than the isolated failure described above) is on track. Unless you are making obscene torque and rough on the car it *shouldn't* happen. But if you rally/rally-x, autocross or otherwise drive like a hooligan it seems to be either DSS or OEM STI parts to keep it together. Unless you can afford what they run in the PWRC
Big C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2009, 12:56 PM   #23
MasterKwan
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 98961
Join Date: Oct 2005
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: NOVA
Vehicle:
2003 WRX
Black

Default

Quote:
The axle nut is a small issue to me, since DSS axle nuts suck and OEM axle nuts are like $3 at the dealer.
To me it's a sign that they tend to 1/2 ass things. You see small stuff like that and it makes you wonder what other ways they're trying to short change you.
MasterKwan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2009, 01:12 PM   #24
Big C
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 3586
Join Date: Jan 2001
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: NOVA
Vehicle:
2000 RSTI Rally Car
2012 STI SWP Hatch

Default

Another comment in case any track noobs read this - you need to watch your wheel bearings closely and understand what is going on to avoid potential failures like this....When you install the axle nut I recommend putting a paint mark on it to give you a quick visual to see if it's trying to back off. You should also periodically check the torque on the nut - if it's loosening yet the paint mark is static (which it should be since Scoobys are staked) your bearing is trashed regardless of whether you find play at the wheel. Retorquing is not a good idea, unless you do it to limp home.....The bearing is already trashed and the last thing you should do is pump more force/heat through it!

My bet on this Integra is that the inner races of the bearing were chewed up, the torque at the axle nut was gone and the hub/bearing were wobbling/vibrating like crazy while on track....it finally cracked the axle from the stress and shock loading that it went through to keep the wheel on the car.

And FWIW - I'm not a wheel bearing engineer, just someone who raced a car with lots of wheel bearing problems and probably has been through more issues with this than all of your friends put together My 20T shop press used to be my best friend!
Big C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2009, 01:26 PM   #25
MasterKwan
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 98961
Join Date: Oct 2005
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: NOVA
Vehicle:
2003 WRX
Black

Default

He'd just had his wheel bearing replaced. I'm more inclined to think either the shop over torqued the bolt or that axle was just defective. On the other wheel bearing comments, I agree 100%.

Integra's aren't prone to wheel bearing problems like our subaru's. Honda had a problem in the early 90's like the subaru's and they re-engineered and fixed it. They use to have problems with wheel bearings and cracked hubs.
MasterKwan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Track Day near Houston, Aug 22nd, 2009 DonnieO Autocross 0 07-27-2009 10:16 PM
TT/DE Track Day near Brownsville / South Padre this Saturday SeveredPerformance Texas Impreza Club Forum -- TXIC 0 04-26-2007 10:41 AM
10/24/04 TRACK DAY near Green Bay (Shawano) L@@K! stiguy555 Mid West Subaru Owners Club Forum -- MWSOC 47 10-25-2004 12:54 PM
Track Day at Putnam Park Near Indy Feffman Mid West Subaru Owners Club Forum -- MWSOC 3 03-05-2004 05:44 PM
Track Day at Putnam Park Raceway Near Indianapolis Feffman Mid West Subaru Owners Club Forum -- MWSOC 1 01-05-2004 03:24 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:06 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.