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Old 05-09-2009, 09:14 PM   #1
Phatron
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Default Phatron: 06 STi FP Green 12.6@110mph....Where was my boost?????

Just got back from california speedway....not good racing weather and an all around bad day.
Leaving town i stopped and got 5 gallons of VP100 to throw in at the track. Got to the track and threw it in, started the car and bam CEL and Cruise light blinking. Car was going bonkers, rich lean rich lean rich lean....STFT was jump -15 to +15% and the AFR was jumping all over too so i really couldnt figure out what to do. So i just said f-it and started playing with the MAF, went up 5% rechecked, didnt work.....so i tried down 5% didnt work. And while all this is happening Im in the staging lanes and getting towards the front of the line. Finally i just had to go with my last flash and as soon as i stage, the CEL is back.
So its throwing me on all the safety maps making me run 14 psi and 10:1 AFR.

I was really lost. I mean i've filled up both my wrx and sti here in town with 95 and 100 octane plenty of times and never had any problems with the AFR.....any ideas on what was going on? bad gas?

IAT's in the 150's all day. Here's the DA data.

Altitude = 1121 ft
Temp = 84*
Dew Point = 50.1*
Altimeter = 29.79

Density Altitude = 3278 ft

And when i weighed my car before it was 3610 with a full tank so i was probably ~3550 lbs with only the 5 gallons in.

Best Slip

60' = 1.8
1/8 = 8.1
mph = 87mph
1/4 = 12.6
mph = 110 mph

Heres my logged boost during the run.
Top = Target
Next = MRP
Next = MRP (relative to sea level)
Botton = WGDC

Where the hell was my boost??!?!!?!?!??!?!!? I hit 24psi for a millisecond in 5th gear, WTF? I gotta be missing something in the rom. IAT's effecting boost or something. Im lost.

Help Me!!!!!!!!!!1



Whole Log

Code:
Time	Load	RPM	FBKC	FLKC	IGN	WGDC	TGT	IAM	IAT	MRPS	MRP
14098	0.89	2038	-1.4	0	31.5	8.63	-9.26	1	151.00	-3.34	-2.54
14436	0.36	2194	0	-0.35	36	10.59	-6.67	1	151.00	-8.74	-10.95
14771	0.71	3986	0	-0.35	45.5	0.00	2.91	1	151.00	-10.82	-6.20
15106	0.21	3411	0	0	41	7.06	-3.19	1	151.00	-10.88	-12.59
15440	0.54	4662	0	0	19.5	0.00	9.41	1	151.00	-12.71	-9.36
15775	0.54	4508	0	-0.35	47	12.94	-3.52	1	151.00	-9.00	-8.47
16112	0.14	4375	0	0	17	0.00	-4.74	1	151.00	-14.37	-13.61
16451	0.94	5207	0	0	44.5	56.86	10.1	1	151.00	-4.53	-4.01
16784	1.49	5671	0	0	35.5	94.90	18.58	1	151.00	1.13	0.77
17122	2.25	4645	0	0	21.5	94.90	25.31	1	151.00	8.72	8.62
17458	2.99	5208	0	0	21	94.90	25.31	1	151.00	16.36	15.85
17794	3.46	5638	0	0	21	58.43	25.3	1	151.00	21.72	22.51
18129	3.31	6017	0	0	21.5	64.71	25.3	1	153.00	21.00	21.68
18468	3.02	6959	0	0	22.5	65.49	24.68	1	151.00	20.27	21.04
18800	0.35	7342	0	0	24	0.00	-6.15	1	151.00	-9.44	-6.05
19138	1.97	4992	0	0	29.5	94.90	24.59	1	151.00	6.49	5.63
19474	2.98	5669	0	0	21	94.90	25.28	1	151.00	16.43	15.93
19809	3.29	6238	0	0	21.5	63.14	25.28	1	151.00	21.20	21.92
20145	3.1	6767	0	0	22	64.71	24.86	1	149.00	20.54	21.20
20484	1.32	7632	0	0	34.5	0.00	7.16	1	149.00	-4.22	1.36
20816	2.43	5495	0	0	22	94.90	25.26	1	147.00	10.80	10.61
21153	3.47	5739	0	0	21	59.61	25.26	1	147.00	21.58	21.57
21489	3.38	5998	0	0	21.5	63.92	25.26	1	145.00	21.34	22.11
21824	3.23	6330	0	0	21.5	66.27	25.24	1	145.00	20.92	21.66
22159	3.15	6610	0	0	22	67.45	25.16	1	144.00	20.94	21.56
22500	3.02	6958	0	0	22.5	68.63	24.63	1	142.00	20.91	21.63
22831	0.18	7265	0	0	24	10.59	-6.15	1	140.00	-10.23	-8.72
23169	2.81	5512	0	0	21	94.90	25.26	1	138.00	15.30	14.15
23501	3.45	5587	0	0	21	56.86	25.26	1	138.00	22.51	23.08
23841	3.4	5869	0	0	21	61.96	25.26	1	136.00	21.73	22.55
24177	3.34	6056	0	0	21.5	65.88	25.26	1	135.00	21.61	22.37
24513	3.27	6173	0	0	21.5	68.24	25.26	1	133.00	21.53	22.27
24847	3.19	6412	0	0	21.5	69.80	25.08	1	133.00	21.55	22.17
25187	3.13	6603	0	0	22	71.76	24.99	1	131.00	21.47	22.18
25516	3.09	6686	0	0	22	72.55	24.83	1	129.00	21.61	22.18
25857	3.02	6893	0	0	22.5	73.73	24.68	1	127.00	21.47	22.14
26192	0.25	7254	0	0	24	0.00	-6.15	1	127.00	-9.26	-7.61
26528	2.83	4984	-4.2	0	16.5	94.90	25.26	1	126.00	16.20	14.80
26862	3.56	5055	-4.2	0	16	52.16	25.26	1	126.00	23.85	24.47
27204	3.4	5148	0	0	20.5	55.29	25.26	1	124.00	22.80	23.53
27533	3.43	5316	0	0	20.5	57.65	25.26	1	124.00	22.71	23.30
27872	3.39	5398	0	0	20.5	59.22	25.26	1	122.00	22.99	23.62
28207	3.41	5515	0	0	21	61.18	25.25	1	122.00	23.00	23.82
28543	3.43	5606	0	0	21	62.75	25.25	1	120.00	23.00	23.62
28879	3.38	5654	0	0	21	64.71	25.24	1	120.00	22.82	23.27
29216	3.39	5783	0	0	21	67.45	25.23	1	118.00	22.86	23.28
29550	3.34	5874	0	0	21	69.41	25.22	1	118.00	22.75	23.51
29890	3.35	5957	0	0	21	70.98	25.22	1	118.00	22.79	23.33
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Last edited by Phatron; 05-09-2009 at 09:22 PM.
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Old 05-09-2009, 09:21 PM   #2
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..........
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Old 05-09-2009, 09:35 PM   #3
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OMG you suck , is your motor build. My VF39 kills your car all day long .

I tough you were ban from the proven power bragging section.

I give you credit for posting crappy results
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Old 05-09-2009, 09:42 PM   #4
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well, crappy is relative. my time really isnt horrible for the trap speed aka power. with a 1.6 60' i coulda got a 12.2-12.3 so im not too peeved about my driving, just with the lack of power.

i just wanna figure out whats wrong.

PS: its better than my 12.7@115mph in my WRX from back in the day
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Old 05-09-2009, 09:45 PM   #5
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Dang your trap speed is way down, I was trapping 112 on the e85 and the vf39 there in the heat as well. I was going to try and atleast show up there, but a tune I was doing ran a little long. What do your other high temp WOT runs look like? Boost doesn't quite build the same as single gear pulls.
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Old 05-09-2009, 10:05 PM   #6
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Good thing i didnt go.. I almost went today, but decided to go to cars n coffee instead. Sorry to hear about the problems.
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Old 05-09-2009, 10:06 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by juanmedina View Post
OMG you suck , is your motor build. My VF39 kills your car all day long .

I tough you were ban from the proven power bragging section.

I give you credit for posting crappy results
Please bro, this thing running right, will dust you.
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Old 05-09-2009, 10:10 PM   #8
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Please bro, this thing running right, will dust you.
I really don't know about that , when is yours going to the track .
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Old 05-09-2009, 10:10 PM   #9
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What EM are you running? Were you using launch control? It is common for the stock ECU to mistake LC from knock and pull timing.
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Old 05-09-2009, 10:31 PM   #10
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It'll probably dust him as is at the same elevation

Check your logged WGDC values against the interpolation sheet, there is an IAT based WGDC compensation.
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Old 05-09-2009, 10:45 PM   #11
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I'm guessing (on the basis of very little evidence...) that the fuel change was just coincidental, and you've got a post-turbo leak in your intake tract. That would explain the low boost and the wacky AF corrections.
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Old 05-09-2009, 11:06 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by juanmedina View Post
I really don't know about that , when is yours going to the track .
Well you should, that car is over 400 wheel.
I will go in a few months after engine break in. My car will be ready this thursday after waiting over 2 months .
Why, you think you can beat me too?

Chris
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Old 05-10-2009, 12:24 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by NSFW View Post
I'm guessing (on the basis of very little evidence...) that the fuel change was just coincidental, and you've got a post-turbo leak in your intake tract. That would explain the low boost and the wacky AF corrections.
that was my first impression. that i had to have a leak. last time i checked my LTFT's they were A=~5%, then B-D were all less than 2%....but of course i could have developed a leak since then. I havent really been logging/tuning since december.

I went back to my daily map once i filled up with 91 octane and the car seriously feels way better. I was kinda ruling out a leak based on my AFR trims before and based on driving home and around town so far it really doesnt seem like a post turbo leak.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Merp View Post
It'll probably dust him as is at the same elevation

Check your logged WGDC values against the interpolation sheet, there is an IAT based WGDC compensation.
i thought that also. I upped my initial wgdc by 20% through the day and my Max wgdc is 95% in the whole map.

I only had 2 "good" runs though, meaning i only got 2 runs where i actually made over 20psi....all the rest the CEL came and i was at 14 psi.

Quote:
Originally Posted by godforbid67 View Post
Well you should, that car is over 400 wheel.
Well, its one thing to make a pretty number in airboys spreadsheet, but in all reality my numbers in that sheet are skewed more than others by my altitude and weight of my car.

I dont want this thread to be a pissing match about those numbers or my track numbers and elevations, heat, etc.

I just want some good troubleshooting ideas.

It was just a bad day, probably lots of things i coulda tried but i have the swine flu and feel like crap and i had to get up at 6am to drive 2 hours to get there and couldnt think since i didnt have a 20 pack of BL.
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Old 05-10-2009, 12:29 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crand002 View Post
What EM are you running? Were you using launch control? It is common for the stock ECU to mistake LC from knock and pull timing.
Romraider.

No launch control.

The timing wasnt off, you can see it in the log above.....i was just modifying my 91+meth map throughout the day which goes from 16* peak to 22* at redline which is whats in the log. I didnt change the timing at all from my 91+meth map. I only changed target boost, wgdc and target AFR.

Timing really isnt the issue here.....the lack of boost is.

Im gonna go do a 1-5 pull here to overlay on my craptastic track log.

Last edited by Phatron; 05-10-2009 at 12:35 AM.
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Old 05-10-2009, 12:40 AM   #15
Phatron
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Oooh forgot to post this up to.....the Target Boost I plotted out in the first post was the logged target boost. Heres the target boost from the rom

So....

Target Boost in rom = 28 psi
Logged Target = 25.2 psi
MRP = 24.2 peak
MRP (sea level) = 23.8 peak

Im so lost. I have to be missing something so easy....

Code:
          12	24	36	48	60	72	84	96
1800	-9.49	-9.24	-3.62	-0.31	1.86	4.00	5.01	8.01
2400	-5.01	-2.24	1.62	5.30	8.89	12.49	14.83	16.01
2800	-3.09	-1.01	4.54	9.09	13.13	17.15	19.47	24.00
3000	-2.71	-1.26	5.10	10.06	14.25	18.45	20.81	28.00
3200	-2.49	-1.51	5.39	10.60	14.97	19.32	21.68	28.00
3400	-2.75	-1.76	5.57	10.98	15.45	19.92	22.24	28.00
3600	-3.00	-1.99	5.65	11.22	15.76	20.28	22.62	28.00
4000	-3.50	-2.59	5.45	11.23	15.88	20.50	22.84	28.00
4800	-4.80	-4.25	4.62	10.81	15.66	20.50	22.84	28.00
5600	-5.99	-5.99	3.07	9.38	14.29	19.18	21.52	28.00
6200	-5.99	-5.99	2.42	8.37	13.13	17.87	20.21	28.00
7200	-5.99	-5.99	1.76	7.39	11.97	16.53	18.89	28.00
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Old 05-10-2009, 01:17 AM   #16
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Quote:
I dont want this thread to be a pissing match about those numbers or my track numbers and elevations, heat, etc.

I just want some good troubleshooting ideas.
Then you chose the wrong subforum with PPB.

If the problems went away after you got back to pump gas, then I'm guessing contaminated race gas. Either crap in the gas from where you bought it, or crap from the container you used. Have you ever used it for anything other than race gas?
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Old 05-10-2009, 01:20 AM   #17
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ha, i like this forum...but arguing over what someone ran back east in a 5spd TR vs a 3600 lb sti at elevation is ghey.

the container is just used for gas for quads and motorcycles, 91 octane.

i think my logs from tomorrow should shed some light. im gonna do 1 at mid-day (hot) and 1 at night to compare to the track.

Also, im still running the stock Bov.....although its crushed....maybe it finally decided to not work.
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Old 05-10-2009, 02:08 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
ha, i like this forum...but arguing over what someone ran back east in a 5spd TR vs a 3600 lb sti at elevation is ghey.

the container is just used for gas for quads and motorcycles, 91 octane.

i think my logs from tomorrow should shed some light. im gonna do 1 at mid-day (hot) and 1 at night to compare to the track.

Also, im still running the stock Bov.....although its crushed....maybe it finally decided to not work.
Its nice to see you at the track instead of just logging around town!! What were the codes that came up?? It doesnt seem to be ECU related. Adding race gas to a car not tuned for it can make that car run somewhat rich. A code wouldnt be thrown by this though.... Hmmm... O2 sensor possibly crap out on you.

On another note, even with your DA and horrible conditions, I see someone with a VF39 trapped 112. So a stocker can go low 12's even in such conditions.
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Old 05-10-2009, 02:24 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by STi Mikey View Post
On another note, even with your DA and horrible conditions, I see someone with a VF39 trapped 112. So a stocker can go low 12's even in such conditions.
well, infamous has been around, but saying i did it on a hot day and knowing the DA are 2 different things.

just cause its hot doesnt mean the DA is high.

auto tranny vs 6 spd

weight?

fmic?

iat's?

its just not that simple, and this is not what this thread is about. there are 10 million faster cars than mine with smaller turbos (including yours)......i built my car to be a low 12 second daily driver where i live, not where you live.

I just want trouble shooting ideas.

Last edited by Phatron; 05-10-2009 at 02:29 AM.
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Old 05-10-2009, 02:29 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
well, infamous has been around, but saying i did it on a hot day and knowing the DA are 2 different things.

just cause its hot doesnt mean the DA is high.

auto tranny vs 6 spd

weight?

fmic?

iat's?

its just not that simple, and this is not what this thread is about. there are 10 million faster cars than mine with smaller turbos (including yours)......

I just want trouble shooting ideas.
That was a side note of my surprise. I was more concerned with your car and what may possibly be wrong. What were the codes thorwn, that would at least be a start for formulating ideas. High IAT's could be attributed to missing target boost, but not CEL throwing (at 150)

Last edited by STi Mikey; 05-10-2009 at 02:37 AM.
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Old 05-10-2009, 02:46 AM   #21
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dude. its such a cluster crap of crap and rockstar coffee that i didnt know what the hell i was doing.

i didnt have any time to checks codes. my friends were literally pushing me down the staging lanes while i was resetting the ecu to clear the STFT's and reflashing the ECU. The first 3-4 runs i didnt even know the boost was an issue since i was in limp mode at 14 psi.

it was just a cluster. im just lost as to why my target boost is 28psi yet the logged target is 25psi and then my actual is 24psi and i did a pull on the freeway at lunch and my friend said my boost sat rock steady at 26 psi on my STRi gauge. Im just really lost.

Hey, if Infamous1 wants to drive my car, i'll throw him the keys.

Im 99.99% sure my driving is the fault here. My car didnt have the power.....the obvious reason is cause i was at 23psi......if my car had the power to trap 115-120mph then i woulda been running 12.6's @ 115mph.
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Old 05-10-2009, 03:16 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
dude. its such a cluster crap of crap and rockstar coffee that i didnt know what the hell i was doing.

i didnt have any time to checks codes. my friends were literally pushing me down the staging lanes while i was resetting the ecu to clear the STFT's and reflashing the ECU. The first 3-4 runs i didnt even know the boost was an issue since i was in limp mode at 14 psi.

it was just a cluster. im just lost as to why my target boost is 28psi yet the logged target is 25psi and then my actual is 24psi and i did a pull on the freeway at lunch and my friend said my boost sat rock steady at 26 psi on my STRi gauge. Im just really lost.

Hey, if Infamous1 wants to drive my car, i'll throw him the keys.

Im 99.99% sure my driving is the fault here. My car didnt have the power.....the obvious reason is cause i was at 23psi......if my car had the power to trap 115-120mph then i woulda been running 12.6's @ 115mph.
we solve the problem, next
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Old 05-10-2009, 04:39 AM   #23
Illusive
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man you guys sure give phatron a hard time.

looking over this post the only variable that changed from before today to today was adding the vp100 5 gal.

did you change the flash/map when you added the vp100 also or just dumped it in and then got the ****storm of problems?
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Old 05-10-2009, 10:25 AM   #24
juanmedina
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Originally Posted by Illusive View Post
man you guys sure give phatron a hard time.

looking over this post the only variable that changed from before today to today was adding the vp100 5 gal.

did you change the flash/map when you added the vp100 also or just dumped it in and then got the ****storm of problems?
I am not, the logs seem fine to me. The car is only picking up 23mph on the back, which is weak as hell. Most VF39 pick up 20-25mph, 18G 23-28mph........etc.

IDK, to me is just driver error
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Old 05-10-2009, 11:31 AM   #25
STi Mikey
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Originally Posted by juanmedina View Post
I am not, the logs seem fine to me. The car is only picking up 23mph on the back, which is weak as hell. Most VF39 pick up 20-25mph, 18G 23-28mph........etc.

IDK, to me is just driver error
Hmm, i wish there was a way to start constructively troubleshooting. Saying the given performance was driver error is too easy, but always a possibility.

Using all the givens here, I do not suspect driver error as the root for such a low trap speed. The logs look fine, with the exception of boost being 3-4psi lower than target. However, the CELL's and the rich to lean madness probably hindered performance to an extent.

Ron makes 320AWHP on a DD with 1.0 CF. At 3200-3300lbs w/ driver, this is a 115-116mph car. His car is heavier, so honesty the car as is should be a 113-114 mph car. Now, with shifting AFR's and 22-23psi down from 26-28, there is the loss of 3-4 mph right there. Even neglecting air/fuels, he was tuned for the green's sweet spot yet does not hit it (which would easily be 3mph +).

Getting down to a 1.6 60ft, a 12.2 @ 112 could probably be accomplished even with marginal gear change. This still doesnt quite add up.

Waiting for today's logs Ron. In addition to doing pulls mid-day and night, tryi icing down the manifold and IC, get the IAT down, and see how boost is affected.
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