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Old 05-10-2009, 09:40 PM   #1
dexterous
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Default Thinking of doing a few track days but I have questions

I am planning on doing a few track days this year and I would like some advice. I have never participated in a track day event before but its something that I would really like to get into. Can you guys please make a few suggestions/answer a few questions about what these evens mean for my car?

According to info found on the web, my local track is 1.6 miles long and includes 12 turns. Its not a super fast track but its not exactly super tight and twisty either. I do NOT intend on doing any competitive racing or drive like I am, I just want to do fun laps (typically with an instructor in the car) so its not like I will be running the car at 10/10ths or anything.

My car is a 2005 STI with a STOCK longblock and lots of mods (Dom 3, FMIC, Hydra 2.6 + Hydramist tuned by Phil at Element) so I put down lots of power for a stock motor (~450whp on a Dynapack). For track days, I plan on running with my AVC-R off which will give me about 1 bar of boost (spring pressure). Hopefully the water/meth + spring pressure will give me reasonable reliability on the track. Any other ideas that would help prevent a failure?

To help deal with the extra heat I have an upgradided to a mishimoto radiator and a crucial 160F thermostat. I run typically run 5W40 Motul 8100 X-Cess Synthetic Oil, will this be sufficient for track days? I dont have an oil cooler, should I plan on adding one? What are acceptable oil temps for my stock block?

I run ATE Super Blue Racing Brake Fluid and stainless break lines, otherwise, my brake's are 100% stock (05 STI brembo setup). I have 17,000 miles (mostly highway) on my rotors and pads. Will my brakes be sufficient for at least one event? I plan on getting my stock rotors resurfaced and upgrading to Ferodo DS2500 pads in the near future. Should I be thinking about additional brake upgrades? Obviously this question varies greatly with driving style but I will ask any way, how quickly do track days typically eat brakes?

I have 17,000 miles on my stock RE070 tires and they are still in decent shape (I expect they will easily lst one more year). Any idea if these will be sufficient for a few track days? With the same caveat as noted with the break question, how quickly do track days eat tires?

Beyond tires and breaks etc are there any other significant things that need replaced frequently when tracking a car? (Assuming that the motor does not blow)

Thanks!
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Old 05-10-2009, 10:24 PM   #2
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yeah, how about a throttle stop so you can never go more than 50%.
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Old 05-10-2009, 10:25 PM   #3
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I would seriously think about upgrading the front pads to DS3000 for the track. I have the DS2500 and am very happy with them on the street, auto-x, and hillclimb's, but they are not enough at my little 1.9 mile local track. My engine is stock and you should be making a lot more power.

The Ferodo's are cheaper than OEM. I did do my first track day on the stock brakes and they lasted about 15 minutes. The DS2500 were going at 20 minuets.

Personally, I would not resurface the rotors. If the rotors are too thin, replace them, otherwise just bed the pads. The nice thing about running the DS2500/3000 combo is that the friction material is very compatible and rebeding between the two is minimal. Ti backing plates are a good deal for ~$80.

The RE070 tyres are not a bad place to start for your first hot lap session. They are probably getting a little old as far as heat cycling, but don't worry about it. I'm on my second set of takeoffs and they are very stiff and responsive. Personally I use 42/38 psi hot tyre pressure for best balance, but I have a 7/8" front sway bar. Use shoe polish and your own feel to set your tyre pressures. My pressures are only a starting reference.

Have fun.

Last edited by Web Foot STi; 05-10-2009 at 10:54 PM. Reason: SP
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Old 05-11-2009, 08:27 AM   #4
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1.) Back the power down AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. You absolutley don't need that much power your first time out, and it's only going to hinder your ability to learn.
2.) Even if it is your first time out, I'd recommend something more aggressive than the DS2500's. Just because you have enough power to get going pretty fast on the straights. Plus, a short track with a lot of turns is usually harder on brakes than a bigger track. You won't have as high a top speed, but you'll have a lot less time for the brakes to cool between brake events. And as mentoined above, if the rotors need turning, don't bother. Get new ones.
3.) The 5W40 Motul 8100 X-Cess Synthetic Oil should be fine.
4.) You don't mention anything about suspension. What suspension mods do you have, if any?
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Old 05-11-2009, 08:47 AM   #5
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Some good info so far. I agree the d2500's won't be enough.

Don't worry about how fast you can go in the straights. Concentrate on looking ahead and don't let your ego get in the way. You will be passed by cars you think should be slower. Better to let them buy and learn from them than try to outrun them.
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Old 05-11-2009, 05:02 PM   #6
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All, thanks, this is exactly what I was looking for. I am in 100% agreement that I want to be running with minimal power. I am not sure how else I could cripple the motor beyond killing the boost and meth. My hydra's standard map (non meth) is well tuned so disabling the meth is simply a function of pressing a button on my dash.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gonz View Post
how about a throttle stop
Are you serious or just joking?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Web Foot STi View Post
I would seriously think about upgrading the front pads to DS3000 for the track.
Ok, DS3000s it is, do I need both fronts and rears or would DS3000s on the front and DS2500s on the rear work? How bad are these on the street? I would only use them to get form my house to the track (20 min on back roads) and back home again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mav1c View Post
1.) Back the power down AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. You absolutely don't need that much power your first time out
Agreed, WG PSI and no meth is all that i think I can do beyond a bit of self control with the right foot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mav1c View Post
1.)You don't mention anything about suspension. What suspension mods do you have, if any?
I have the following suspension mods:
STi JDM Pink Springs
STI Group-N Strut Mounts
STI Group-N Motor Mounts
STI Group-N Transmission Mount
STI Group-N Pitch Stop Mount
STI Pink Pillow Ball Trailing Links
Kartboy Rear Subframe Outrigger Bushings
TurnIn-Concepts Rear Diff Mount Bushings
Whiteline Subframe Lock Bolts
STI Front Strut Tower Brace
STI Rear STrut Tower Brace
Cobb F&R Sway Bars
Cobb Endlinks
Cobb Adjustable Rear Swaybar Mount

As you can see, the only major stock components left are the struts. Some day I plan on getting a set of Ohlins Fixed Perch Struts but that will have to wait for a while.

Nobody mentioned anything beyond brakes suspension and tires. I assume that I wont need an oil cooler?

Last edited by dexterous; 05-11-2009 at 05:09 PM.
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Old 05-11-2009, 05:46 PM   #7
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you should be ok without an oil cooler. I assume you have a decent set of guages so you will be able to monitor your temps pretty closely

and i agree with everyone else, do whatever you can to back down on the power
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Old 05-11-2009, 06:37 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dexterous View Post
All, thanks, this is exactly what I was looking for. I am in 100% agreement that I want to be running with minimal power. I am not sure how else I could cripple the motor beyond killing the boost and meth. My hydra's standard map (non meth) is well tuned so disabling the meth is simply a function of pressing a button on my dash.


Are you serious or just joking?
a little of both.

This is the decidedly "old tech" way of doing it, but it works if you have time to put something together. For me it would be hard to rely on "self control" with the right foot
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Old 05-11-2009, 10:39 PM   #9
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Yeah just watch your gauges and pull back a little if it starts getting hot
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Old 05-11-2009, 11:33 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dexterous View Post

Ok, DS3000s it is, do I need both fronts and rears or would DS3000s on the front and DS2500s on the rear work? How bad are these on the street? I would only use them to get form my house to the track (20 min on back roads) and back home again.
I've only ran with DS2500 on both axles and DS3000 front and DS2500 rear. The DS3000's up front has worked well enough that pad fade was not an issue. I'm thinking about doing DS3000 on all four corners to shift some of the brake bias rearwards. For your first time out I would not worry about it. Race pads up front will keep you out of fade.

As for driving on DS3000 pad to the track, I do it as I live about 5 miles and <10 minutes from the track. The first couple of stops are not that inspiring as there is no heat in the pads, but a few aggressive stops 25-0 mph coming out of my neborhood solve that little problem.
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Old 05-12-2009, 09:17 AM   #11
dexterous
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Quote:
Originally Posted by misterwaterfallin View Post
I assume you have a decent set of guages
I have Defi BF gauges monitoring Boost, EGT, Oil Pressure and Oil Temp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elirentz View Post
Yeah just watch your gauges and pull back a little if it starts getting hot
What's considered to be too hot? Again, stock long block here.
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Old 05-12-2009, 04:17 PM   #12
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My oil temps get up to around 240 deg F on track and that's about the limit of what you want. I'd say 250-260 is a good point to start thinking about backing off a little on the straights.
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Old 05-14-2009, 08:57 AM   #13
dexterous
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Ok, sounds good. I will set my oil temp alarm to 115C (240F) that way I know when I have an issue. Thanks.
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Old 05-14-2009, 10:39 AM   #14
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I'd probably set it a little higher. Unless you don't mind the alarm. Maybe 245-250. Have fun!
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Old 05-14-2009, 05:23 PM   #15
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If it's your first time on track, you will not be driving very hard at all. A good flush of the brake system, a fresh set of pads, RE070s and you are good to go.

Anyone who tries to tell you you need XYZ "upgraded" stuff is out of their minds. The purpose of being there is to learn and make yourself a better driver, focus on that and listen to your instructor.

-mike
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Old 05-22-2009, 01:56 PM   #16
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how about a bbk while the front Brembo's are still worth $$?
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Old 05-22-2009, 04:18 PM   #17
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bbk for first track day? Don't think so.

-mike
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Old 05-25-2009, 05:54 PM   #18
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Since you're in PA, you might want to check this out.
They have a HPDE scheduled @ POCONO on 6/16.
I'm probably going but need new rubber on the car 1st...
http://www.hookedondriving.com/home.cfm
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Old 05-27-2009, 08:02 AM   #19
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You are welcome to join us (www.MVPTrackTime.com) at any of our 2009 track events. We always enjoy having the Subie gang with us. Happy Motoring!

Feff
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Old 05-28-2009, 10:33 AM   #20
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I think the only thing you'll actually have to worry about is burning through your brake pads. Even with the power backed down all the way, you'll still be eating through your pads. I'm getting about about 3-4 events per set of race pads on my WRX, with only about 275whp. These are heavy cars, no doubt about it.
However, in terms of upgrading before the event, DON'T BOTHER. Keep everything exactly how you're used to it, and then just keep an eye on things. Get a new set of pads (better compound if you desire), but don't put them on unless you burn through your first set.
You shouldn't have any problem with oil temps. If you do, it's easy to remedy if you keep an eye on your gauge/ listen for your alarm.
The oil temp issue is an interesting one. It's not like "oops, i got to 260 deg F, better pull off and change the oil!" It's more like if you run that hot for the entire weekend you could be risking damage. I very seriously doubt you'll run into this issue your first 2 or 3 events. Don't fret over it too much.

Have fun, dude!!!

-Matt
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Old 06-01-2009, 02:19 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paisan View Post
If it's your first time on track, you will not be driving very hard at all. A good flush of the brake system, a fresh set of pads, RE070s and you are good to go.

Anyone who tries to tell you you need XYZ "upgraded" stuff is out of their minds. The purpose of being there is to learn and make yourself a better driver, focus on that and listen to your instructor.

-mike
Agreed.

I'll add that you want to be very, very, very, very nice to your instructor ahead of time. Ask him to drive your car for 5 laps on your first time out. Myself......when I come upon an overly modified car with a newbie student, I am initially very unamused. If you're a national champion autocross or ice racer, I'm far less unamused. You will learn more with a stock old Civic than your monster car. The idea is to learn the line, learn how to drive on the track. Power is not your friend right now. Look ahead. (there's the lesson to learn for the first year on the track.....look ahead.

jack
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