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Old 05-10-2009, 09:46 PM   #1
luke714
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Default Can subaru really give me the fasted car for my money?

Hey,

I don't know if this is the right place to post this. I want to get a second car for track use, I want to keep it street legal but barely. The interior will go, and I don't care about ride comfort.

This is the first time I've done this, and I need some advice. I'm going to have somewhere between 10-12k to spend. I love Subaru's, and I really want to get one for this project. However, looking around I can't help but wonder if this is my best option. I could get a 944 for 6k and dump the rest of the money into upgrades and it probably would be a faster car. I like the 944, think it's a good idea? I'm open to suggestions or for someone to convince me I could do better with a Subaru for this kind of money.

Thanks guys!
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Old 05-10-2009, 09:48 PM   #2
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oops, sorry about the typo in the title
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Old 05-10-2009, 09:55 PM   #3
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nope its all a lie
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Old 05-10-2009, 09:57 PM   #4
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nope its all a lie
what is?
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Old 05-10-2009, 09:59 PM   #5
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just answering your title topic thread...pretty much it just comes to what car would u prefer to be in ...make a list of what you like about the cars and what you dont...weigh them out and go from there
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Old 05-10-2009, 10:05 PM   #6
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thanks man

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Originally Posted by boosteddx View Post
just answering your title topic thread...pretty much it just comes to what car would u prefer to be in ...make a list of what you like about the cars and what you dont...weigh them out and go from there
what do you think of the 944?
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Old 05-11-2009, 02:11 AM   #7
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the 944 is fast and all, and probably lighter gutted than a scoob, but DAM those are hard to work on!! the germans over-engineer things... like if you need a new water pump plus the parts are more expensive and harder to find (in AZ at least).
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Old 05-11-2009, 02:22 AM   #8
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This is a no brainer:

Buy a C5 Vette for $10,000 then put $2000 into brakes, power, alignment, race tires and used Z06 struts/springs/wheels. In track trim you could get it down to as little as 2500lbs with 450hp and 315 hoosiers all around. It would be next to impossible to build a car for that price that would be faster. And even if you could build something faster it might take a year to build and a few years to get setup.

I know it's fun to dream up some cool track car build. But all too often after people build something like that they bring it out to the track/autox only to get beaten my miatas on good tires.

Do you want a fast car or a project?

Last edited by Davidss; 05-11-2009 at 02:30 AM.
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Old 05-11-2009, 02:43 AM   #9
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david said it...C5 is one of the fastest for that price range, even all stock. plus most parts are cheaper, so you will save money on maintenance. you won't need more power any time soon if you're new to the track, and when you do, you'll be giddy when you realize how cheap some of the engine upgrades are.

if you want to go cheaper, miatas and civics are common choices. the 944 isn't one i would get unless you have a special place in your heart for them.

have you ever done a track day? if not, you should try one before making any decision. when you go, ask an instructor for a ride (any mixed track day there will have a few nearly stock vettes). at a minimum, go watch a track day and talk to some people there.
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Old 05-11-2009, 06:15 AM   #10
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The 944 or E30 is a good choice IMO. Parts aren't that expensive if you know where to look the handling is great and the motors are reliable if treated well. I've seen fully prepped 944's for ~$6000 and if you ever want to go wheel to wheel Spec E30, 944, or miata are great entry level classes. Either of those are going to be much cheaper to race than a c5 vette not that they aren't relatively cheap for how fast they are.

If you don't mind fwd civics are good choices too.
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Old 05-11-2009, 07:46 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davidss View Post
This is a no brainer:

Buy a C5 Vette for $10,000 then put $2000 into brakes, power, alignment, race tires and used Z06 struts/springs/wheels. In track trim you could get it down to as little as 2500lbs with 450hp and 315 hoosiers all around. It would be next to impossible to build a car for that price that would be faster. And even if you could build something faster it might take a year to build and a few years to get setup.

I know it's fun to dream up some cool track car build. But all too often after people build something like that they bring it out to the track/autox only to get beaten my miatas on good tires.

Do you want a fast car or a project?
Thanks! I'll look into the vette. (I don't mind projects though , and I've got the tools and the space)




Quote:
Originally Posted by elirentz View Post
The 944 or E30 is a good choice IMO. Parts aren't that expensive if you know where to look the handling is great and the motors are reliable if treated well. I've seen fully prepped 944's for ~$6000 and if you ever want to go wheel to wheel Spec E30, 944, or miata are great entry level classes. Either of those are going to be much cheaper to race than a c5 vette not that they aren't relatively cheap for how fast they are.

If you don't mind fwd civics are good choices too.
I kinda want to stay away from the ricemobile stigma of the civic, and I don't like how they look. I know thery're really popular.
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Old 05-11-2009, 10:56 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davidss View Post
This is a no brainer:

Buy a C5 Vette for $10,000 then put $2000 into brakes, power, alignment, race tires and used Z06 struts/springs/wheels.
While I don't disagree with the suggestion, R-comps ALONE for that car would run ~$1200. And will last ~one weekend.

Dependent on what you mean by "power", your list is priced more in the $5000 range.

The corvette will be the fastest for the money, but the operating costs will be much larger than something slower and smaller.
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Old 05-11-2009, 11:20 AM   #13
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what class are you trying to fit into?

pending that, see Sean's (speedyham) build. He's in XP now and he use to compete in SM with his coupe.

He'd be a good example of a lower cost DIY auto-x impreza.

Though if you shop around you can get your chassis for $900 like I did

He's just on a stock EJ205 with a hotside ported TD04 (stock turbo).

Last edited by Homemade WRX; 05-11-2009 at 11:30 AM.
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Old 05-11-2009, 02:36 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxQ View Post
While I don't disagree with the suggestion, R-comps ALONE for that car would run ~$1200. And will last ~one weekend.

Dependent on what you mean by "power", your list is priced more in the $5000 range.

The corvette will be the fastest for the money, but the operating costs will be much larger than something slower and smaller.
That's common misconception! Vettes actually are REALLY cheap to run. Since they are light, have good suspension geometry, can get more than enough camber, and have giant tires some people can get 150+ autox runs out of a set of V710s. Personally for myself I can get almost twice the amount of runs out of a set of Rs on the Z06 versus my miata or MR2 (but I could get more out of the miata/mr2 with ABS). And since there are TONS of pro race teams that run vettes it's easy to pick up a set of 1/2 life left scrubs for $100 a set. Rotors are under $40 each new.

Here would be my $2000ish breakdown:
Used Z06 wheels - $350
Used Z06 struts/spring - $200
Race tire scrubs - $100
Lower the car - FREE
Alignment - $50
New rotors - $150
Front pads - $100
Used titanium exhaust - $350
Hack up stock intake - FREE
Long tube headers - $500
Used cam - $200
Tuning - $300
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Old 05-11-2009, 03:21 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Davidss View Post
Since they are light, have good suspension geometry, can get more than enough camber, and have giant tires some people can get 150+ autox runs out of a set of V710s.
Slow people maybe. And you said hoosiers. Be consistent!

Quote:
Personally for myself I can get almost twice the amount of runs out of a set of Rs on the Z06 versus my miata or MR2 (but I could get more out of the miata/mr2 with ABS). And since there are TONS of pro race teams that run vettes it's easy to pick up a set of 1/2 life left scrubs for $100 a set. Rotors are under $40 each new.

Here would be my $2000ish breakdown:
Used Z06 wheels - $350
Used Z06 struts/spring - $200
Race tire scrubs - $100
Lower the car - FREE
Alignment - $50
New rotors - $150
Front pads - $100
Used titanium exhaust - $350
Hack up stock intake - FREE
Long tube headers - $500
Used cam - $200
Tuning - $300
While I challenge you to find a set of used z06 wheels for $350, I find it interesting that you would pay someone ($50 no less!) for an alignment but neglect the install costs associated with a cam.
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Old 05-11-2009, 08:28 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homemade WRX View Post
what class are you trying to fit into?

pending that, see Sean's (speedyham) build. He's in XP now and he use to compete in SM with his coupe.

He'd be a good example of a lower cost DIY auto-x impreza.

Though if you shop around you can get your chassis for $900 like I did

He's just on a stock EJ205 with a hotside ported TD04 (stock turbo).
Where can I find this build, how much did it cost him? I'm interested in trying to stick with Subaru's. I'm not afraid to start a project car. I've got the mechanical skills, they're just not car specific. I'll probably gut the interior completely and take out all unnecessary parts.


I don't know if there is a specific place I'd like to fit in but I know I just want to have a car that is a lot of fun to drive on some good roads. If I get a Subaru I might modify it in favor of some light hearted rallying or off road ability. I don't care about ride comfort, or interior appearance. I'll probably got the stiffest springs and sway bars that are practical.


P.S. guys I know you could try forever to convince me otherwise, and I might not be making the absolute best choice for top speed but I'm not interested in a corvette.
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Old 05-11-2009, 09:22 PM   #17
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Quote:
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If I get a Subaru I might modify it in favor of some light hearted rallying or off road ability. I don't care about ride comfort, or interior appearance. I'll probably got the stiffest springs and sway bars that are practical.
stiff springs and sway bars aren't practical for off-roading. if you want to track and off-road, you will be compromising the performance of both. and that's fine...i do over 10 track days a year, but i also try to get in at least 2 rallycrosses on the same car with the only difference in setup being my tires. i don't have an adjustable suspension, nor do I plan on getting one any time soon. some people will disconnect their sways for rallycross if they don't have an off-road setup, but i just go out there to slide around and have a good time...i am not there to be competitive.

Quote:
P.S. guys I know you could try forever to convince me otherwise, and I might not be making the absolute best choice for top speed but I'm not interested in a corvette.
that was just an answer to the question you posed. i personally would rather track my subaru because i feel safer approaching the limit in an AWD car than a RWD. maybe after i have a lot more experience i will change my mind, but last year was the first season i did more than one track day.
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Old 05-11-2009, 09:27 PM   #18
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RB25/26 240 FTW. You could get a shell and an rb for right around 3500 4k and then the possibilities are endless on the rb IMO. I love Subarus but not a car to mod cheaply
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Old 05-12-2009, 12:37 AM   #19
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I don't know if this is the right place to post this. I want to get a second car for track use,
What does "track use" mean? HPDE? How much experience do you have?
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Old 05-12-2009, 05:59 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luke714 View Post
Where can I find this build, how much did it cost him? I'm interested in trying to stick with Subaru's. I'm not afraid to start a project car. I've got the mechanical skills, they're just not car specific. I'll probably gut the interior completely and take out all unnecessary parts.


I don't know if there is a specific place I'd like to fit in but I know I just want to have a car that is a lot of fun to drive on some good roads. If I get a Subaru I might modify it in favor of some light hearted rallying or off road ability. I don't care about ride comfort, or interior appearance. I'll probably got the stiffest springs and sway bars that are practical.
Here is my build thread-

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1495137

While I appreciate the suggestion from Micah, I don't agree that a Subaru is ever going to be the fastest car for the money. I think to this point I have spent around $17K total on my car including the original purchase price 9 years ago and the current Hoosier A6 tires (but not any previous tires). If you were to start now and build the exact same car I would bet it could be done for around $13K, or cheaper if you went with a 6 speed and R180 rear diff.

If you want (as stated above) a car that is a lot of fun on good roads and can be rallyX'd and run on dirt, an STI is right at the top of the list.

Careful with what modifications you perform, as for off road you want soft springs and bars, for pavement you want fairly stiff springs and bars. Going stiffer isn't necessarily better for all cases. I may actually soften some of the springs on my car this year after the drivetrain changes I made last winter.
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Old 05-12-2009, 07:03 PM   #21
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thanks for all this

Sorry about stiff springs/offroad comment, I didn't mean to sound like that.

I don't have much experience with track days, I want to spend more time going with some other people. Where I am I there isn't a huge variety of good paved roads, nor tracks. That's part of the reason I'm such a fan of Subaru's, and am hesitant to get a car that is only intended for road use (such as a 944 or 928 or even a TVR project car or something). Just the town roads around my house would keep something like that at a really slow clip. Keeping this lack of track car specific knowledge in mind I still feel that getting a cheapish base and making it into a project car is the best way to learn and still having a car that is fun to drive at the same time.

It's looking like I might end up going a different route than subaru's, however.

P.S. I'm still trying to wrap my head around all the models and varieties of cars/parts. Could someone tell me more about the ej257? Is it only an after market subby motor?
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Old 05-12-2009, 07:09 PM   #22
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Nope that's the 2.5 STi motor.

Its semi closed deck with forged rods and crank. Cast pistons though are the weak spot.
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Old 05-12-2009, 09:17 PM   #23
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Check out the new GRM for the 1700$ v8 miata build done by Georgia Tech
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Old 05-13-2009, 12:32 PM   #24
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Check out the new GRM for the 1700$ v8 miata build done by Georgia Tech

wow, that sounds interesting . I'll have to look that up when I'm not bumming my bosses computer to look at my thread.
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Old 05-15-2009, 12:40 PM   #25
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Here's a good place to start.
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