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Old 05-11-2009, 09:33 AM   #1
07ImprezaMB
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Talking Dyno'd and tuned (numbers)

So my performance mods are as following, headerback exhaust, injen cai, and perrin light weight crank pulley, This past friday i took a 2 hour drive to atlantic motorsports in gaithersburg maryland and got my car dyno tuned. The numbers are whp-165.3 and w/torque 159.9. I thought this was actually good numbers for a n/a with only bolt on upgrades! But the car has a very much improved power gain throughout rpms and a huge difference in power when driving. What do you guys think? pretty good gains or am i just overly excited?
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Old 05-11-2009, 10:50 AM   #2
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Wow... That seems way too high for just bolt ons. Those are like stock WRX numbers. You should be around 120 or 130whp on a good day. What kinda dyno?
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Old 05-11-2009, 11:17 AM   #3
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that's some really good numbers. How much did the tune cost if you dont mind me asking ?
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Old 05-11-2009, 11:56 AM   #4
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Tuned with what?
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Old 05-11-2009, 12:15 PM   #5
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what dyno is this on?
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Old 05-11-2009, 12:22 PM   #6
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hell yea bitches
!!!!!!!!
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Old 05-11-2009, 12:34 PM   #7
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Waaaaaahooooooo!!!!!!!!
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Old 05-11-2009, 01:00 PM   #8
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Raw numbers don't tell much without a useful reference. It's helpful to know the base values or a good comparison like what a stock WRX would run. It is common to see a stock WRX to put down around 160-170whp, but this isn't useful info on any random dyno. If WRXes commonly put down 200hp on that dyno, the scale would be different. As well, it's useful to know where you started and measure the relative gains. Maybe stock was 140hp or it could have been 150hp. Without knowing this, you couldn't know the exact gains. My last dyno run put me at 153ft-lb / 141hp, but I'm relatively certain it is about 10 too high given past real and road dyno runs I've done as I've modded my car. I've kept records and done at least a road dyno of every mod I've done with my car to measure relative gains of the progress I've done with my car. I know exactly I gain because everything I do is referenced to a known base. If mod X gave me 5ft-lb. I know. If a particular dyno measures 10hp over, I know.

The newer Imprezas are nice. They seem to offer a big better top end power, and I would expect to see pretty good hp numbers from any.
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Old 05-12-2009, 09:30 AM   #9
07ImprezaMB
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it costs 450, and it was i think called a dynomite? i dunno, it was an awd dyno there so. I have the dyno sheets ill try to get them on here but i dont have a copier or anything.
The sheets say exactly this whp-162.3 w/torque-156.9 and that was before the light weight crank pulley, he said add about 2-3 hp for that so i was being a little generous. The ACTUAL number are those ones. Which i still think is pretty good. 162 whp with bolt-ons.
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Old 05-12-2009, 10:31 AM   #10
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You should get group n mounts and get even more power to the wheels
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Old 05-12-2009, 12:31 PM   #11
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Light weight rotating parts don't make power. They simply free up some energy that was getting wasted spinning up the stock, heavy parts. A dyno generally accelerates slow enough where the difference is minimally perceivable. The 2-3hp difference is this mild perception. In reality though, there are zero HP gains. You are only simply using less power to accelerate the car.

It is relatively unimportant what the actual dyno reads unless it can be referenced to other things and can be accurately scaled. I'm just saying, don't stand behind the numbers like they are real and absolute. The best way a dyno could be used is for referencing. You bring in a stock car and run it to get a base line. Then you mod the car and do more runs to show relative gains. That's the best way you can make use of a dyno.

Raw numbers vary between dynos, so no one can compare across the board. The closest thing we can do is scale. I say a WRX puts down 170hp on my dyno and my Forester puts down 130hp. I have a relative difference between two cars. You run your Impreza on your dyno and the shop owner has run a bone stock WRX on his dyno and put down 190hp. If your Impreza put down 150hp on his dyno, you and I are making the same power. That's the only way it becomes comparable. It really needs referencing.

The better thing to look at is the power curve. Look at the torque curve and see how it is. Do mods to bump up and reshape that curve as desired to get the results you're looking for. That was a big thing with my mods. I started out with a stock setup with a very peaky midrange. I have since bumped up overall torque but also have vastly widened that torque band. I know make at least 90% peak torque over almost the entire rev range, something you'll start seeing a lot of these modded cars start doing. For example, Matt Monsoon's dyno plot, pretty much ruler flat over much of the power band. It never was close to that when stock:


Or a more focused setup like sa4baru's Saab Imperza running Delta 2000 cams:


Raw numbers are not so important. Every dyno is different, elevations are different, SAE corrections may or may not be used. There are just too many variables to simply compare. However, power bands can be compared. What's the shape of my torque? Do I have a peaky design? Do I lack low end torque or high end torque? Is the power band smooth or are there some weird dips in power that might have to be addressed? These are of greater concern.
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Old 05-12-2009, 12:58 PM   #12
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EXACTLY! A dyno is a tool for the car and not your manhood! Any well prepped Subaru engine should actually have a ruler flat torque curve, boost or not. Every wall of death power curve I see on a Subaru is complete bull**** because they aren't running the 8 second timeslips to use it correctly. Turbo selection actually needs to assist this kind of torque delivery and not work against it. Making a ruler flat torque curve NA or turbo is done different ways. But, that flat curve should be paramount in each arena.
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Old 05-12-2009, 03:05 PM   #13
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Now don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to rip on you here or anything. It's simply a matter of what do those numbers really mean.

The flat curve is a good representation of volumetric efficiency (VE). You make peak torque at peak VE. If you do mods and raise up the torque curve, you are effectively raising VE. If you broaden and flatten the torque curve, you are effectively raising VE over a wider range. Maybe stock was 60% at 2k rpm and 85% at 4k rpm and 75% at 6k rpm. If you can get it up do 80%/90%/85%, great! You tweak and improve and try to make efficient use of the system. There are also tuning methods to focus towards specific rpm ranges and further improve VE in that area, generally at the expensive of VE elsewhere. For example, you can get +100% VE, i.e. mimicking forced induction in a NA engine through these tuning methods, but it is generally over only a small rpm band. Research into intake and exhaust tuning. Look at things like pipe diameter and length for the intake manifold, exhaust manifold, and other pipe sections. Look at concepts about flow velocity and pressure wave tuning.
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Old 05-12-2009, 08:07 PM   #14
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Do you have the dyno graphs.. im interested in seeing the shape of the curves
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Old 05-12-2009, 08:10 PM   #15
07ImprezaMB
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Here are the dyno sheets, before and after.

BEFORE tune, base numbers with bolt on's.


AFTER dyno tune.
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Old 05-12-2009, 08:13 PM   #16
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damn, that second run is nice compared the the first... low end tq is much improved. But that damn dip between 3-3.5k is the same on every EJ25 i have seen. can't wait to figure that one out.
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Old 05-12-2009, 10:50 PM   #17
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10whp is about what i got from a tune with the same mods -intake & headerback exhst. it feels great huh! it's pricey, but totally worth it.
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Old 05-12-2009, 10:59 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa4baru View Post
10whp is about what i got from a tune with the same mods -intake & headerback exhst. it feels great huh! it's pricey, but totally worth it.
Still slower than a wrx lol

just teasing. yes i want to be fast but then again I think itll be easier just to get a wrx
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Old 05-12-2009, 11:09 PM   #19
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^ way slower, but when your car is paid off, it's plain stupidity to trade it in for something that will have a payment. know what i mean
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Old 05-13-2009, 07:03 AM   #20
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More testimonial that the electronics really bring out the benefits of bolt-ons (and bolt-ins, in this case). Stacking up the dyno plots, the torque curve rises about the same amount from beginning to end, which is nice... but what can be done about those two dips?
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Old 05-13-2009, 10:56 AM   #21
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Looks good. Out of curiousity, what kind and size of exhaust are you running?
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Old 05-13-2009, 05:15 PM   #22
07ImprezaMB
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Borla uel header, stromung high flow cat pipe(both of those are 2.25), then apexi n1 catback(i think it was a weird diameter like 2.36?)
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Old 05-13-2009, 05:24 PM   #23
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The tuner from ams said that he thnks the dips in torque could be bc of the intake, or a mixture of the intake and header. He was just guessing though.
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Old 05-13-2009, 05:50 PM   #24
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im guessing the dip @ 3-3.5k is because of the UEL header... the EL really helps volumetric efficiency from below 2k up.
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