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Old 04-15-2015, 12:28 AM   #1
Villalobosj
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Default 2015 Wrx stage 1 vs 2013 Wrx stage 1... Which is faster?

A couple years back I had a 2013 WRX that only had a Torqued Performance stage 1 etune on a completely stock motor. This car was fun and "fast" for what it was. A few months back i purchased a 2015 WRX and I am now running a BrenTuning etune on a completely stock motor as well. At first I thought the FA was much quicker than the EJ, so I dug up some of my data logs from when I was logging with the 2013 and looked at some of the acceleration times. When comparing them to my 2015 times, the 2013 is about .40 seconds faster 40-90 mph, and about .35 seconds faster 60-90 mph. All my datalogging have been done on the same stretch of road, in 3rd gear, and the outside temp within 10 degrees of each other. Does anyone else feel the same way? Or have insight? Kind of a bummer to have taken a step backwards.... Please chime in...
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Old 04-15-2015, 01:26 AM   #2
just slothing
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not sure how else to look at it. if .4 seconds is significant to you then yea, you ****ed up. shoulda got a mustang. however, if youre not a professional racer then it doesnt matter.
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Old 04-15-2015, 08:28 AM   #3
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measuring a .4 second difference and .35 second difference on a data log is not a step backwards. if your only judge on performance is 3rd gear pulls... this is not the car for you. not sure how else we can "help" you feel better about your purchase. There is a lot of info out there showing differences from older to newer generation, it is what it is.
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Old 04-15-2015, 08:32 AM   #4
BmanFSU26
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I believe the 2013 WRX is lighter than the 2015 WRX, correct? For example, my '13 only weighs around 3,180 lbs. Also, I believe with the 5speed, the gears are slightly taller which proves beneficial in a straight line pull.
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Old 04-15-2015, 08:34 AM   #5
ColdSoda
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BmanFSU26 View Post
I believe the 2013 WRX is lighter than the 2015 WRX, correct? For example, my '13 only weighs around 3,180 lbs. Also, I believe with the 5speed, the gears are slightly taller which proves beneficial in a straight line pull.
the 2015 wrx and 2013 wrx have identical gear ratios in 3rd (and 4th).

2015 wrx base model curb weight is 3267
2013 wrx base model curb weight is 3208

http://www.cars101.com/subaru/wrxsti/wrxsti2015.html
http://www.cars101.com/subaru/wrxsti/wrxsti2013.html
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Old 04-15-2015, 09:22 AM   #6
toph
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While your data may be accurate, there are always variables (outside conditions, same road, tires, etc). The EJ has a powerband which makes the car feel much quicker than it is. Power comes on late and stays late. The FA has a more linear powerband, spools quicker and drops off quicker. The VA is a much better chassis than the GR. Neither car, without substantial work, will ever be "fast".
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Old 04-15-2015, 10:05 AM   #7
AnthonyC.01
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Your talking two different motors with two different setups, butt dyno may feel a tad different. Like stated above, the characteristics of both motors are different. My 15 actually feels more responsive then my 05 sti. Personally, I feel what these tuners are doing with the 15's is pretty unbelievable. Could always trade is back in for an older 13 if it matters that much.
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Old 04-15-2015, 10:37 AM   #8
jbark1018
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It's the tune that is the difference. Get a dyno tune and then compare. The FA should win out.
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Old 04-15-2015, 10:47 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbark1018 View Post
It's the tune that is the difference. Get a dyno tune and then compare. The FA should win out.
Right. It's not the fact that they have two different engines, different transmissions, different C/O Drag, different weight, different tires, different outside conditions. It's obviously the tune. A tune by someone who slaps the same tune on everyone's car (Eric @ TP) vs one of the most well known and reputable tuner/e-tuner (BT) who takes the time to modify the map in a way that is safe and gives good power.
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Old 04-15-2015, 10:50 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toph View Post
Right. It's not the fact that they have two different engines, different transmissions, different C/O Drag, different weight, different tires, different outside conditions. It's obviously the tune. A tune by someone who slaps the same tune on everyone's car (Eric @ TP) vs one of the most well known and reputable tuner/e-tuner (BT) who takes the time to modify the map in a way that is safe and gives good power.
Those are obvious differences and have been pointed out, but the tune still has a lot to do with it. It 2 different tuners who do not have control of the car and most likely are being conservative.
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Old 04-15-2015, 11:08 AM   #11
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I am not that surprised by the numbers, when you think of the characteristics of the motors. The 2015 is really more centered around developing more torque early on and reducing turbo lag. Down low, the car feels more responsive but there are trade-offs and clearly the car starts to run out of steam in the higher RPM ranges where the previous generation did not.

If your goal it to go faster, you need to start considering stage 2. I mean what is your goal here? If your butt dyno is happy with the 2015 at Stage 1 I would say leave it there and maybe focus on fine tuning things like the suspension and shifter. For me, I always focus on the suspension first before I start adding more power. RCE springs and a proper alignment can really change a car.
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Old 04-15-2015, 12:09 PM   #12
kris5597
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There are a few things to consider when comparing datalogs of two different cars. Weather, consistency of driver, tires, etc. .4 of a second is hard to justify speed between two cars. Unless you know the exact temps, humidity, and density altitude, comparing datalogs of two different cars with a long gap of time between the two is invalid.

If you bought the 2015 to be faster than your 2013, stock for stock, that is an incorrect purchase.

There are so many variables here that make this impossible to compare. Even having low tire pressure can change the time it takes to get from one speed to the next. Wind could have been blowing against you as well. Do you see what I mean?

Just my .02

Kris
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Old 04-15-2015, 02:20 PM   #13
Villalobosj
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I didn't choose the 15' for just straight line speed over the 13'. There are so many up sides to the new model. The suspension and handling is a huge improvement, as well as the updated interior and gauges. I also like the new styling of the front end, as well as the rear. The 6MT is nice too, and I do like the quick spool of the FA. I was just hoping it would be a little faster. I guess its time for some TGV deletes, and a Down pipe.
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Old 04-15-2015, 02:30 PM   #14
Scooby Jay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kris5597 View Post
There are a few things to consider when comparing datalogs of two different cars. Weather, consistency of driver, tires, etc. .4 of a second is hard to justify speed between two cars. Unless you know the exact temps, humidity, and density altitude, comparing datalogs of two different cars with a long gap of time between the two is invalid.

If you bought the 2015 to be faster than your 2013, stock for stock, that is an incorrect purchase.

There are so many variables here that make this impossible to compare. Even having low tire pressure can change the time it takes to get from one speed to the next. Wind could have been blowing against you as well. Do you see what I mean?

Just my .02

Kris
So are you saying that a stock 13 is faster than a stock 15? From what I have been seeing it seems a stage 2 15 is faster than a stage 2 13? Just seeing people numbers of roughly around 300whp.
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Old 04-15-2015, 02:46 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toph View Post
Right. It's not the fact that they have two different engines, different transmissions, different C/O Drag, different weight, different tires, different outside conditions. It's obviously the tune. A tune by someone who slaps the same tune on everyone's car (Eric @ TP) vs one of the most well known and reputable tuner/e-tuner (BT) who takes the time to modify the map in a way that is safe and gives good power.
Bren is amazing. Been using him since 07.
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Old 04-15-2015, 02:54 PM   #16
Villalobosj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sti_Guy10 View Post
Bren is amazing. Been using him since 07.

I agree! I have the Bren tune now and love it. The 13' had the TP map.
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Old 04-15-2015, 03:28 PM   #17
toph
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby Jay View Post
So are you saying that a stock 13 is faster than a stock 15? From what I have been seeing it seems a stage 2 15 is faster than a stage 2 13? Just seeing people numbers of roughly around 300whp.
Horsepower doesn't tell the whole story, especially in a straight line race. The EJ is more rev happy than the FA and holds better up top. I have yet to see any stage 1 GR vs stage 1 VA comparisons. Stock vs stock there are a few videos and they are basically neck and neck.

I had my '15 WRX tuned by Bren and I have my current '15 STi tuned by Bren, both stage 1. While I have no facts or concrete proof to back up my claims, the STi feels quicker. It's possible that is attributed to the shorter gearing, higher revving and peaky powerband. Both cars made very similar numbers, 270/290 WRX 270/300 STi.
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Old 04-15-2015, 04:12 PM   #18
Villalobosj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toph View Post
Horsepower doesn't tell the whole story, especially in a straight line race. The EJ is more rev happy than the FA and holds better up top. I have yet to see any stage 1 GR vs stage 1 VA comparisons. Stock vs stock there are a few videos and they are basically neck and neck.

I had my '15 WRX tuned by Bren and I have my current '15 STi tuned by Bren, both stage 1. While I have no facts or concrete proof to back up my claims, the STi feels quicker. It's possible that is attributed to the shorter gearing, higher revving and peaky powerband. Both cars made very similar numbers, 270/290 WRX 270/300 STi.
I agree with you. The few videos that I have seen between GR's and VA's seem to be neck and neck.
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Old 04-15-2015, 06:55 PM   #19
rajalucy
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYb9fbapvFQ
not my video but 2013 vs 2015
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Old 04-15-2015, 09:46 PM   #20
Villalobosj
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Regardless of which is "faster" I'm happy with the new WRX in so many ways.
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Old 04-15-2015, 09:53 PM   #21
kris5597
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby Jay View Post
So are you saying that a stock 13 is faster than a stock 15? From what I have been seeing it seems a stage 2 15 is faster than a stage 2 13? Just seeing people numbers of roughly around 300whp.
No, I did not say one was faster than the other.
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Old 04-15-2015, 09:54 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Villalobosj View Post
Regardless of which is "faster" I'm happy with the new WRX in so many ways.
I would agree with you, the new WRX is a much better car than the previous chassis. Handling, fuel economy, comfort, luxuries, and my favorite, reliabilty. Unfortunately it's not much faster, not as much as it should be.

Kris
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Old 04-16-2015, 01:39 AM   #23
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Good to see people sharing their info. I only used numbers as a reference because I truly do not have any evidence lol. I am very happy with my 15 for reasons besides power. Can't wait to get my j-pipe though and an etune most likely.
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Old 04-16-2015, 01:22 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toph View Post
Right. It's not the fact that they have two different engines, different transmissions, different C/O Drag, different weight, different tires, different outside conditions. It's obviously the tune. A tune by someone who slaps the same tune on everyone's car (Eric @ TP) vs one of the most well known and reputable tuner/e-tuner (BT) who takes the time to modify the map in a way that is safe and gives good power.
why do think Eric does bad tunes? I love mine, never any issues from his.
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Old 04-16-2015, 01:29 PM   #25
toph
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shoots808 View Post
why do think Eric does bad tunes? I love mine, never any issues from his.
I'm not saying that Eric does "bad tunes". I'm saying that Bren has probably done more 2015 WRX E-tunes than most other tuners and knows them very well. The main point of the post is to make note that it's two different engines, years apart, with different tuners and I'm sure different ambient conditions, not to take a shot at your tuner.
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