Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Monday July 25, 2016
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > News & Rumors > Non-Subaru News & Rumors

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-13-2009, 08:22 AM   #1
AVANTI R5
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 73805
Join Date: Nov 2004
Vehicle:
2016 Cayman GT4
black

Default Ohio Cashes In On Freeway With Artificially Low Speed Limit

Quote:




Quote:
Unfortunately, there are plenty of stories like this one every week:
All this week, packs of Columbus-based officers on white motorcycles have been prowling Akron’s freeways, handing out tickets faster than a political candidate distributing fliers at a football game.

During the first three days alone: 600 citations.
At best, this is dirty pool. At worst, it is dangerous.

Dirty pool? Absolutely. Many of those tickets have been written on the recently revamped stretch of Interstate 77 that runs from Copley Road to the northern city limits.

As I reported in February, the speed limit on that new segment is now inappropriately low — so much so that the Ohio Department of Transportation has been trying to raise it from 55 mph to 65.

Thus far, those efforts have failed because of a quirk in a 1996 law that made 65 mph the default on Ohio’s interstates. We’ll spare you the gory details, which were reported earlier, but suffice it to say ODOT believes the 55-mph signs left over from the pre-widening days are outdated in the wake of the $64 million widening project completed late last year.

Today, the West Leg of the Akron Expressway might be the nicest, safest stretch of urban freeway in the entire state. It features three flat, straight, wide lanes in each direction, enormous berms and a stout concrete median.

So here we are, stuck with an artificially low speed limit, and where does the Ohio Highway Patrol choose to unleash a ticket-writing frenzy?
The Ohio Highway Patrol is determined to bring safety to our interstates — even if it kills us.
All this week, packs of Columbus-based officers on white motorcycles have been prowling Akron's freeways, handing out tickets faster than a political candidate distributing fliers at a football game.

During the first three days alone: 600 citations.
At best, this is dirty pool. At worst, it is dangerous.
Dirty pool? Absolutely. Many of those tickets have been written on the recently revamped stretch of Interstate 77 that runs from Copley Road to the northern city limits.

As I reported in February, the speed limit on that new segment is now inappropriately low — so much so that the Ohio Department of Transportation has been trying to raise it from 55 mph to 65.

Thus far, those efforts have failed because of a quirk in a 1996 law that made 65 mph the default on Ohio's interstates. We'll spare you the gory details, which were reported earlier, but suffice it to say ODOT believes the 55-mph signs left over from the pre-widening days are outdated in the wake of the $64 million widening project completed late last year.

Today, the West Leg of the Akron Expressway might be the nicest, safest stretch of urban freeway in the entire state. It features three flat, straight, wide lanes in each direction, enormous berms and a stout concrete median.

So here we are, stuck with an artificially low speed limit, and where does the Ohio Highway Patrol choose to unleash a ticket-writing frenzy?

Although the patrol insists almost all of the tickets have been written for ''aggressive violations'' — defined as 20 mph or more over the limit — at least one Beacon Journal reader was ticketed for going 70 mph in a zone that clearly should be 65.

Even worse than picayune tickets is the added danger — for motorists and troopers.

Go with the flow
Any traffic-safety expert in the land will tell you that the flow of traffic is more important than the speed. The most dangerous highways are those where drivers are traveling at radically different rates of speed.

It doesn't get much more radical than a pack of 70-mph drivers jamming their brakes to the floorboard the instant they spot a trooper on a motorcycle on the inside berm — much less five or six of them in the same area.

When reader Norma Shaub spotted a gaggle of troopers wedged between the left lane and the concrete median, ''my first thought was, 'Are they crazy?' and my second thought was, 'How could anyone think this is a good idea?'

''They were pulling cars over onto the same shoulder by stepping out — in one case into the high-speed lane and motioning for the vehicle to pull over! There are so many ways this could go so wrong.''

A Beacon Journal employee saw a civilian motorcyclist who had been pulled over actually standing in the left lane. ''The event almost caused one big accident,'' she said.

Reader Randy Adair said he witnessed two near-crashes in a single day. In one case, he said, a trooper aiming a laser gun had his hands extended into the left lane, causing a person in that lane to abruptly move to the center lane, nearly hitting another car, whose driver slammed on the brakes.

''I'm not a speeder,'' Adair said. ''I set my cruise control at two or three miles under the limit. So that's not the issue.''
The issue, he says, is that the officers are ''not using their heads. They're jeopardizing the city of Akron in the name of protecting us, and, frankly, I don't need this much protection.

''There's a difference between protection and oppression, and it's not a helluva lot if it's carried too far.''

As if you couldn't guess, the Highway Patrol takes a somewhat different view of things.

Lt. Eric Sheppard, from the patrol's Summit-Stark post, said he was not aware of ODOT's quest to raise the speed limit on the West Leg.

''I will tell you that about 98 percent of the citations that have been written are what we consider aggressive violations, which are at least 20 mph over the posted speed limit, which means even if it was at 65, they would be well in excess of the posted speed limit.''

The patrol also has been working its magic on Interstates 76 and 277 and state Route 8.

Operation Clean Sweep
Eight troopers are writing tickets for nine hours a day as part of a campaign known as Operation Clean Sweep. They started Monday and will finish Saturday — with luck, in one piece.

''These officers work urban highways nine months out of the year and they are very well aware of the safety concerns,'' Sheppard said, ''and they are not going to place themselves or a violator in what they consider to be a hazardous situation.''

Apparently, ''hazardous'' is very much in the eye of the beholder.

Akron's interstates have not experienced an upsurge in crashes. Rather, said Sheppard, ''it has become a custom up there that the normal flow of traffic is well in excess of the posted speed limit, hence the safety reason of why we need to be up there and make a visible presence to try to change their driving behaviors.''

Even the behavior-modification element is questionable. As reader Richard Zelin notes, ''as soon as the patrol leaves the area, drivers will go back to driving above the limit.''

That's not because Akron drivers are maniacal speed freaks. That's because national traffic experts say 85 percent of all motorists drive at a reasonable speed for the conditions regardless of the posted limit.

The patrol's Sheppard said he was not aware of studies that show traffic flow is a bigger safety factor than speed.

Well, for starters, he could check with the Federal Highway Administration. That group — not exactly a coalition of anarchists — spells out its speed-limit theory in Section 2B.13 of its Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices:

''When a speed limit is to be posted, it should be within 5 mph of the 85th-percentile speed of free-flowing traffic.''

That information is important in view of an FHA study identified as RD-85/096:

''Speed zoning incorrectly used on streets and highways can lead to driver non-compliance with speed limits.

''[Matching the speed limit to the 85th percentile] results in speed limits that are not only acceptable to a large majority of the motorists, but also fall within the speed range where accident risk is lowest.''

In other words, slower isn't necessarily better.

Would you rather be driving next to someone who is passing you at 70 mph or someone who is jamming on his brakes and veering into your lane because he has spotted four state troopers on the inside berm?
http://www.ohio.com/news/break_news/44551342.html
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
AVANTI R5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 05-13-2009, 08:28 AM   #2
White out
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 46277
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: On the beach
Vehicle:
** LP640
Viper GTS

Default

Good work city who needs more money, good work.

Nick
White out is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2009, 08:30 AM   #3
Nico Flax
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 109531
Join Date: Mar 2006
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Ashburn Virginia
Vehicle:
2006 STI
2008 CBR1000

Default

I doubt I'll ever see justice on the roadways in my life...

and why is it the police always come off as big bumbling idiots who carry a big blunt stick, aren't these the people who are suppose to have finesse and common sense.

edit: God damn this dyslexia...

Last edited by Nico Flax; 05-13-2009 at 08:37 AM.
Nico Flax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2009, 08:50 AM   #4
FaastLegacy
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 11671
Join Date: Oct 2001
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Default

That's pretty ridiculous but I could see this happening. On my 90 mile roundtrip commute, it seems to be a natural reflex to slam on the brakes every time you see a cop - even if you're going 5 mph under the speed limit.

Sometimes I really do think they're hurting more than they're helping, especially in a blatant revenue generating scheme such as this one.
FaastLegacy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2009, 09:01 AM   #5
osuengineerw06sti
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 158508
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Birmingham, Al
Vehicle:
2006 STi (Tha panda)
White

Default

It’s too bad that the people in charge of the Highway Patrol don't even know how to do their job. Not knowing about the safest way to accomplish a goal (slowing people down) tells me that they don’t think or take a proactive approach to their job. It sounds like “let’s all write a bunch of tickets... and be careful” is that the best idea they could come up with vs. researching and trying to go about things a little safer than stepping out in highway traffic. “In excess of 20mph of the speed limit” ฿yeah right.

Wake up Highway patrol and use your brains not brainless caveman techniques.
osuengineerw06sti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2009, 09:22 AM   #6
Hazdaz
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 14611
Join Date: Jan 2002
Default

Glorified meter-maids is all they are.

I love to see how short-sighted city officials are in cases like this. So they are pulling in $X because of this scam, and let's be honest, a 'scam' is exactly what this is. But because these cops are essentially modern-day "tax-men" to fatten the city's coffers, you have that many less officers patrolling the streets. So chances are the city has to hire more officers to do that job.. and of course all that costs money. Then factor in extra wear and tear on police vehicles to accomplish this ticketing scheme, and the extra back-log in the courts to handle these bogus tickets. So when it all comes down to it, the city is probably barely pulling in anything extra, but creating a whole ton of "bad-will" toward both the police and cityhall.

Mission Accomplished, so they say.
Hazdaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2009, 09:31 AM   #7
industrial
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 7250
Join Date: Jun 2001
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Home
Vehicle:
2017 WRX
DGM

Default

Just raise freaking taxes. Unless they are somehow getting kick backs from all the skyrocketing insurance premiums for all the moving violations. This is so freaking wrong.
industrial is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2009, 12:38 PM   #8
Not-EWRX
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 158043
Join Date: Aug 2007
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: SLC
Vehicle:
2013 Wrx Hatch
SWP

Default

God there's alot of cop bashing in here.
Not-EWRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2009, 12:42 PM   #9
shikataganai
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 92634
Join Date: Aug 2005
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Vehicle:
'07 Land Cruiser
'12 RAV4 EV

Default

if these people really were doing 75 mph in a 55 then they deserved the tickets they received.
shikataganai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2009, 01:14 PM   #10
Lboogie
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 171611
Join Date: Feb 2008
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Silicon Valley
Vehicle:
2014 FiST
Blk

Default

Lboogie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2009, 01:23 PM   #11
SlideWRX
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 3803
Join Date: Jan 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: SouthEast Michigan
Vehicle:
07 Mustang GT
Ford Crappy Paint White

Default

Quote:
Although the patrol insists almost all of the tickets have been written for ''aggressive violations'' — defined as 20 mph or more over the limit — at least one Beacon Journal reader was ticketed for going 70 mph in a zone that clearly should be 65.
Now doesn't that show just how messed up our notion of 'speed limits' are? "I got a ticket for going over the limit!" "but you were going over the limit..." "not by enough, though; I shouldn't have gotten a ticket until 75 mph."

I can't remember the last time I actually considered a Speed Limit sign as an actual limit; just as a ticketing reference.
SlideWRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2009, 01:40 PM   #12
Stanley
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 7374
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: North Bay, SFCA
Vehicle:
2007 Grandpamobile
BlingBlingBlue

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FaastLegacy View Post
Sometimes I really do think they're hurting more than they're helping, especially in a blatant revenue generating scheme such as this one.
Sometimes?

Traffic officers should be looking for people driving in an unsafe manner such as weaving in and out of traffic, tail gating and driving with visibly under inflated tires. Instead, it's far easier to "shoot fish in a barrel" by hiding behind a bush and picking people off who are simply going with the flow of traffic.
Stanley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2009, 01:44 PM   #13
stewb
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 154753
Join Date: Jul 2007
Vehicle:
2008 STI
DGM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Not-EWRX View Post
God there's alot of cop bashing in here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlideWRX View Post
Now doesn't that show just how messed up our notion of 'speed limits' are? "I got a ticket for going over the limit!" "but you were going over the limit..." "not by enough, though; I shouldn't have gotten a ticket until 75 mph."

I can't remember the last time I actually considered a Speed Limit sign as an actual limit; just as a ticketing reference.
Thanks, Officers, but the point of the original post is that the speed limit has been kept too low by the municipality specifically to generate revenue. The police are merely tools of the scam perpetrated by Ohio against drivers.

I have seen a marked increase in highway patrol speed traps in California, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, New York, Connecticut, and Massachusetts. These have nothing to do with safety; they are about revenue.
stewb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2009, 01:59 PM   #14
ThinkGlobal
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 33127
Join Date: Feb 2003
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Not-EWRX View Post
God there's alot of cop bashing in here.
Yes, the ones in question are acting contrary to their 'protect and serve' role.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shikataganai View Post
if these people really were doing 75 mph in a 55 then they deserved the tickets they received.
Well, I guess you don't get a lot of tickets or harassment on your bicycle... Keeping limits radically low simply to collect taxes is an obscenity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stewb View Post
Thanks, Officers, but the point of the original post is that the speed limit has been kept too low by the municipality specifically to generate revenue. The police are merely tools of the scam perpetrated by Ohio against drivers.

I have seen a marked increase in highway patrol speed traps in California, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, New York, Connecticut, and Massachusetts. These have nothing to do with safety; they are about revenue.
Well it isn't so surprising. The Federal Government is Bankrupt, and many many states are on the edge. Expect an escalation in taxation whether overt or covert in the coming years. Be careful, they will extract $ from everybody one way or another.
ThinkGlobal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2009, 02:03 PM   #15
Garandman
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 101117
Join Date: Nov 2005
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Dorchester MA / Sunapee NH
Vehicle:
2009 WRX, 06 OBW 3.0
Tiger 1050, WR250R, TW200

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Not-EWRX View Post
God there's alot of cop bashing in here.
I don't blame the officers, those are surely management policies.
Garandman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2009, 02:58 PM   #16
delongedoug
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 124113
Join Date: Aug 2006
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: To infinity
Vehicle:
and beyond!

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by industrial View Post
Just raise freaking taxes.
No, how about cut ****ing spending?!
delongedoug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2009, 03:14 PM   #17
shikataganai
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 92634
Join Date: Aug 2005
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Vehicle:
'07 Land Cruiser
'12 RAV4 EV

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinkGlobal View Post
Well, I guess you don't get a lot of tickets or harassment on your bicycle... Keeping limits radically low simply to collect taxes is an obscenity.
why not just obey the posted limit instead of speeding with the rest of the sheeple? it's simple: you CHOOSE to speed, you can get ticketed.
shikataganai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2009, 03:34 PM   #18
Hazdaz
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 14611
Join Date: Jan 2002
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shikataganai View Post
why not just obey the posted limit instead of speeding with the rest of the sheeple? it's simple: you CHOOSE to speed, you can get ticketed.
I think you've been living without a car for WAY too long there champ.

First off, following the flow of traffic is vastly safer than simply "going slow" no matter what the actual speed limit is on a particular road.
Also from the looks of how they are pulling this speed scam, the hw is going from a reasonable 65 down to 55 for no apparent reason other than for the sole purpose of nabbing people. In a situation like that, people are gonna slam their brakes which can easily turn this into a dangerous situation for no good reason.
Lastly, going 70 in a 65 is barely even noticeable, and most cars have a speedometer that is easily off by a couple of miles per hour.
Hazdaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2009, 03:40 PM   #19
Masterauto
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 198376
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Delaware
Vehicle:
STI E30 M3
Nissan GT-R 15

Default

Ohio and Maryland are the most speed enforcement states $$$$ Md will soon put in speed cameras.
THE EXCUSE safety...THE REASON $$ Money

Last edited by Masterauto; 05-14-2009 at 10:14 AM.
Masterauto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2009, 05:53 PM   #20
shikataganai
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 92634
Join Date: Aug 2005
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Vehicle:
'07 Land Cruiser
'12 RAV4 EV

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazdaz View Post
I think you've been living without a car for WAY too long there champ.

First off, following the flow of traffic is vastly safer than simply "going slow" no matter what the actual speed limit is on a particular road.
Also from the looks of how they are pulling this speed scam, the hw is going from a reasonable 65 down to 55 for no apparent reason other than for the sole purpose of nabbing people. In a situation like that, people are gonna slam their brakes which can easily turn this into a dangerous situation for no good reason.
Lastly, going 70 in a 65 is barely even noticeable, and most cars have a speedometer that is easily off by a couple of miles per hour.
1. drive in the slow lane
2. go the speed limit
3. don't get ticketed
4. ?????
5. profit

you can rationalize all you want about flow of traffic and such. i know that it's possible to drive like this because this is how i drive when i'm in my wife's corolla or in a zipcar. and, no, i don't have people queuing up on my tail or getting mad at me. (and on windy roads i'm that guy who WILL pull over to let people pass even if i'm doing a good clip. people have this insane need to go 5 mph faster than the guy ahead of them no matter what. i have no objection to that so let them go on their merry way.)
shikataganai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2009, 05:56 PM   #21
SubaruImpreza_power
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 13910
Join Date: Jan 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Greenwich, CT
Vehicle:
1997 Legacy outback
blue

Default

"It doesn't get much more radical than a pack of 70-mph drivers jamming their brakes to the floorboard the instant they spot a trooper on a motorcycle on the inside berm — much less five or six of them in the same area."


I can't stand that ish... our state has been putting more troppers out and they do this... Can't they just ease off the gas?!?!? and the damn rubberneckers I had one on Sunday looking at a car being loaded on a flatbed slowing up all the traffic.
SubaruImpreza_power is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2009, 05:56 PM   #22
SubaruImpreza_power
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 13910
Join Date: Jan 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Greenwich, CT
Vehicle:
1997 Legacy outback
blue

Default

*bad posting*

Last edited by SubaruImpreza_power; 05-13-2009 at 08:21 PM.
SubaruImpreza_power is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2009, 06:51 PM   #23
Skylab
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 4263
Join Date: Feb 2001
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Encinitas, Ca
PWN3D

*edit*
Skylab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2009, 08:27 PM   #24
daveyboy
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 35419
Join Date: Apr 2003
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by delongedoug View Post
No, how about cut ****ing spending?!
What planet are you from?! That isn't change! We're gonna have free health care, social security, medicare, college education, vouchers for cars, its all free!!!!!!!!!!
daveyboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2009, 08:53 PM   #25
industrial
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 7250
Join Date: Jun 2001
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Home
Vehicle:
2017 WRX
DGM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by delongedoug View Post
No, how about cut ****ing spending?!
Good in theory. You push that agenda and they just find another way to tax you, like tickets.
industrial is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
5% cash back on gas with Discover card gregsatt Texas Impreza Club Forum -- TXIC 2 05-25-2006 07:41 PM
Do people in your town obey school zone speed limits? AccidenT New England Impreza Club Forum -- NESIC 19 10-08-2004 09:34 AM
cashing in on old stocks from previous jobs? dvs Off-Topic 6 11-25-2003 05:09 PM
How do you cash in on a 2 year old offer?? 4x4GGG Off-Topic 14 07-30-2003 03:09 PM
Well time to cash in on the pool: who had friday the 23 for when neal was going to... DoctorNick Mid West Subaru Owners Club Forum -- MWSOC 54 08-27-2002 08:11 PM

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:54 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2016 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2016, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.