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Old 04-22-2002, 02:42 AM   #1
webkris
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Talking No need for an MBC with Boost Monkey to get 17psi!

LATEST NEWS:
4/22 - Boost "cap" solved! Boost Monkey CAN make MORE then 15psi ON IT'S OWN! Small things make a big difference... We once thought that the solenoid could only bleed enough to make 15psi of boost. We once thought that the pipe that connects the solenoid was just a "junction" between two pipes. We once thought that you would need an MBC as a restrictor to get the boost past 15psi. Nope, wrong, and no. You see we have been testing with every possible combination of bleeder pipe, MBC, and solenoid setting. Removing stock piping, and replacing with bigger fittings... Connecting the MBC before and after the solenoid... Finally last night after a series of over-boosted horrible results - I configured one last test, and went to bed tired. We would see if that made any difference in the morning.

Hopped into the car to head to a NESIC cookout. I turned out of my driveway, and quickly accelerated to get out into traffic. "WOW! That felt strong! How much boost was that??" I asked my co-driver Jeremy. "That felt like more then 14..." he replied. We went WOT again to see where the max boost was hitting. 17psi! Not spiking to 17... Holding steady at 17psi... "What did you do?!"

Well - you know that restrictor pipe that everyone talks about? Well we learned that the stock system really has 3 restrictors in it.

1. The hose with the restrictor piece in it.
2. The T fitting. This acts as a restrictor between the wastegate and the solenoid.
3. The connector piece. That joins the grey hose from the T fitting to the black hose of the solenoid.
Removing just #1 [the restrictor piece] and replacing it with an MBC still works - but some MBC's are not sensitive enough to restrict only 2psi of air. The Hallman is capable - but read more. Removing just #2 [the T fitting] and replacing it with a much larger 3/16" fitting causes the max boost to drop 2-3psi. Removing just #3 [the connector piece] and replacing it with a larger 3/16" connector makes the efficiency of the solenoid increase, and bleed off more air - making more boost without the MBC! We had to turn the Boost Monkey down halfway in order to get only 15psi of boost, and all the way down still resulted in 12psi of max boost.

Why this is perfect! As most of you know the TD04 Turbo in the WRX runs out of steam at 16psi at high RPM's. There is no real benefit to running close to the boost cut, and pushing over that. Now all you'll need is the Boost Monkey to make up to 17psi of boost. Now for the "10 percent'ers" out there that remove the boost limiter, build their motor up, and want to run 20+psi of boost might I suggest the Hallman Boost Controller + Boost Monkey to make that a very steady 20psi...

So - How exactly do I make more than stock boost with my Monkey? (Pictures Soon) Look at the piping by the turbo. Find the T fitting. See the grey hose that heads for the solenoid? Look at how it goes to a connector, and turns into a black hose that connects to the solenoid. REMOVE that connector, and replace it with a 3/16" connector. TURN Boost Monkey's "boost setting" ALL THE WAY DOWN, and increase boost setting slowly until desired max boost is acheived.

Look for Boost Monkey reviews to start popping up - as the first batch was shipped last week.

Thanks,
Kris

http://www.boostmonkey.com
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Old 04-22-2002, 03:04 AM   #2
TurboWRXImpreza
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Nice product!! Very ideal and great price too!


I'm in !!!!


Raymond


PM'ed ya

Last edited by TurboWRXImpreza; 04-22-2002 at 03:25 AM.
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Old 04-22-2002, 07:50 AM   #3
VetteVert
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Looks good. Can't wait to see the results. So what occurs with the #3 restrictor replaced with a bigger unit....with no other modifications?

VV
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Old 04-22-2002, 10:34 AM   #4
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Is it still ok to install if you dont have a EGT gauge?
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Old 04-22-2002, 10:42 AM   #5
Sordid Philosopher
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Question small question

Hi, I've looked at your web site and it appears that the "boost monkey" is a square wave generator and it varies the pulse to change the boost...is this all it is doing?

No offense meant, just curious.
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Old 04-22-2002, 12:25 PM   #6
webkris
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Lightbulb Q&A...

VetteVert: I would guess that the car would run a bit higher boost stock. But - as the car is reading the MAP, it would "learn", and turn the boost down to stock levels by not operating the solenoid at the same duty cycle. I'll have to try that, and see how crazy it gets.

WR-REX: Yes. It's okay to install without an EGT gauge. As long as you set the Boost Monkey to engage at more then 70% throttle, and plan not to run more then 16psi of boost. We have taken EGT readings off several cars, and have never seen higher then 1450F degrees with light throttle acceleration with this setup... Remember though - You can still setup the boost monkey to be on all the time (or right when you touch the gas) Doing this WILL give you High EGT's during light throttle acceleration, as it's now acting like an MBC. This is why we recommend an EGT, but if you follow the rules above - you don't need one.

Sordid Philosopher: Yes it is. It also reads the TPS voltage, and engages the boost based on that. This IS something that you can build yourself if you have the time to bread-board the circuit, design a board, etch a board, get all the components working, etc. In order to get a setup that was perfect it took us about 2 months of prototyping.

Thanks,
Kris

http://www.boostmonkey.com
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Old 04-22-2002, 12:42 PM   #7
Sordid Philosopher
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sorry for the question (I am an EE - does it show), I wouldn't deny you either your profit or your r&d testing to get it right...just curious. Sounds like a great device.
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Old 04-22-2002, 01:17 PM   #8
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this is pointless

Last edited by BOP; 12-04-2002 at 02:24 PM.
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Old 04-22-2002, 01:27 PM   #9
Kha0S
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Thumbs up

Kris -- I bought a 3/16" nylon coupler at Aubuchon Hardware during my lunch break, and just installed it. It works perfectly!

... and just when you thought the BoostMonkey couldn't get any better...

/Andrew
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Old 04-22-2002, 01:27 PM   #10
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kris have you though a way to make boost monkey take a nap?
or pass through switch?

so a guy could run in STX on the weekends and real boost the rest of the time...
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Old 04-22-2002, 01:28 PM   #11
Lerxtwood
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Default Re: No need for an MBC with Boost Monkey to get 17psi!

Kris,

This is fantastic news! Hopefully this will eliminate the need to install a MBC in conjunction with the Boost Monkey where I was just interested in upping the boost to around 16lbs to compensate for our crappy high altitude air!

Also, it looks from the tracking number like my Boost Monkey should arrive today. Could you please post some detailed photos (when you get them) showing exactly where this connector that needs to be replaced is, either to this thread or to my email address? Thanks!

Quote:
Originally posted by webkris
LATEST NEWS:

So - How exactly do I make more than stock boost with my Monkey? (Pictures Soon) Look at the piping by the turbo. Find the T fitting. See the grey hose that heads for the solenoid? Look at how it goes to a connector, and turns into a black hose that connects to the solenoid. REMOVE that connector, and replace it with a 3/16" connector. TURN Boost Monkey's "boost setting" ALL THE WAY DOWN, and increase boost setting slowly until desired max boost is acheived.

Look for Boost Monkey reviews to start popping up - as the first batch was shipped last week.

Thanks,
Kris

http://www.boostmonkey.com
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Old 04-22-2002, 02:45 PM   #12
webkris
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Quote:
Could you please post some detailed photos (when you get them) showing exactly where this connector that needs to be replaced is, either to this thread or to my email address?
Hehe - It's SNOWING in Manchester, NH right now - but I'll try to get some clear shots of the piping.

- Kris
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Old 04-22-2002, 02:47 PM   #13
Kha0S
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Yes, yes... it is snowing. Muahah.

I think I know what I'm doing after work with my new skidplates...

Kris -- if you can't get pictures before this evening, I can go outside at the office and snap a few.

/Andrew
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Old 04-22-2002, 04:16 PM   #14
john banks
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You can get over 25 PSI if you like (with a fuel cut lifter/defender and you are stupid enough) if you just plug that little brass restrictor with solder and redrill it. No need for an MBC. 1.1 mm will allow you to go substantially higher. 1.0mm and you can go well over 20 PSI. I did not try a 0.8mm for obvious reasons If you guys like inches 1 inch=25.4mm - sorry if that is patronising, but it wouldn't be the first time someone asked me to convert for them!

Oh, BTW, solder has a perfectly high enough melting point, and I have been running like this for months.
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Old 04-22-2002, 04:39 PM   #15
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Default Re: Re: No need for an MBC with Boost Monkey to get 17psi!

Quote:
Originally posted by BOP


Yeah, I noticed that too when I was installing TurboXS stage 2. It includes an ABC (basically, just a bleeder valve) that comes with a T-fitting that replaces that connector piece. Even when the valve is fully closed, it bumps up the boost a couple of psi just because the new T-fitting has larger internal diameter and lets the solenoid bleed more air.
Hey BOP did you find that little plastic connector to be a bastard? I used my best needle nose pliars on it and had to exert brute monkey power to get it, mangling it in the process.

JJ
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Old 04-22-2002, 04:47 PM   #16
bluescoobywagon
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Is it possible that a lot of people with EBC's have a hard time configuring their systems due to this restrictor limiting the effectiveness of the factory solenoid?

Mike Robinson
2002 WRX Sport Wagon
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Old 04-22-2002, 04:50 PM   #17
BOP
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this is pointless

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Old 04-22-2002, 04:51 PM   #18
Kha0S
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Wow... mine just popped right out.

It helps to have the engine a little warm to make all the pressure lines pliable.

/Andrew
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Old 04-22-2002, 05:32 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by BOP
Yes, a tough little bastard I actually had to sacrifice about 1/4" of the hose, but the connector is intact and is now sitting in my ashtray... just in case.
Mine appears to still be functional. Should have choped the hose instead. Doh (well)
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Old 04-22-2002, 05:47 PM   #20
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Didn't anyone think about the timing issues?

It's has been proved by some people on this board that after 15.5 - 16psi, the stock ECU starts pulling timing at certain RPM range. (4-6k?)

Have you done the dyno (to see the HP gain) and datalogging to see if it's working safely?
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Old 04-22-2002, 06:22 PM   #21
webkris
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Lightbulb Pictures...

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Old 04-23-2002, 02:47 AM   #22
Bailey
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Default boost levels on stock car with restrictor mod

I removed this restrictor in my otherwise stock WRX and replaced it with a 3/16th connector per the instructions on this thread.

This subtle change definitely affected boost regulation a bit. Initially during the first few accelerations with this modification under WOT the boost would peak to 16 or 17 psi and would then roll back to 10 or 12 before steadily but quickly building toward 15. I think the factory ECU was freaked by the extra flow to the solenoid.

The factory ECU must have relearned the proper duty cycles for the solenoid, as this peaky behavior is now absent. My impression is that boost now builds a little more quickly - perhaps more abruptly - than stock and settles at a slightly higher PSI. Before the mod I didn't see levels over 14.5 PSI. Now my Defi peak warning (set at 14.5 PSI) is on while at max boost in 2nd third and fourth gear. As i was driving alone i don't yet know what the boost was throughout the RPM range in each gear.... i could just see the gauge warning going off during the gear. THe levels were checked afterward via the peak hold.

If this mod is pushing the boost a one to 1.5 PSI - as may be indicated by my peak readings - this is a mod for the masses.... almost free.

As always, the butt dyno is prone to error... is there any reason this might be bad?
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Old 04-23-2002, 09:22 AM   #23
6Pack
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Bailey,

Did you do this WITHOUT an ECU reset?
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Old 04-23-2002, 11:36 AM   #24
webkris
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Thumbs up Cool - A quick mod for EVERYONE!

Cool Bailey,
As we suspected the car would turn it down once it saw 17psi at WOT. I would also suspect that after a few days it will get it down to 14.5 again or sit around 15 as you described.

This is still a valid mod for those of you who don't have Boost Monkey's. You won't always get full boost in every gear, and the boost won't build as quickly as the Monkey (or MBC) does - but - It will build boost slightly faster then stock, and could raise your peak boost 1psi. - It's worth a $0.75 3/16" connector at least.

Enjoy!
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Old 04-23-2002, 11:46 AM   #25
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will swapping in a 3/16th connector do anything for me if I dont have a boostmonkey?
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