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Old 05-20-2009, 01:03 PM   #1
Darcros
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Default Road racing cage help?

looking to get my 06 sti caged out to stiffen up the car and to also add some safety. I have been going to alot of open track days but can not seem to get a correct answer for the type of cage i need or material. i would like to make the cage to specs so later on down the road when i enter events it will pass. I do have a great chassis builder that used to work with.
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Old 05-20-2009, 04:00 PM   #2
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Who do you run with?

NASA has their specs for cage in their CCR. Pretty easy to follow.

-mike
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Old 05-20-2009, 04:16 PM   #3
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I pretty much just have been going to open track days getting better at driving.. Just trying to get the car stiffen up and more safe. Do you have the link to there specs?
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Old 05-20-2009, 04:36 PM   #4
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http://scca.org/contentpage.aspx?content=44
SCCA rules and regs page. SCCA and NASA pretty much share all the rules so either will suffice if you are looking to go racing
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Old 05-20-2009, 05:22 PM   #5
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thank you
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Old 05-21-2009, 08:03 AM   #6
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Oh, and FYI, you really don't want to run a full cage on a street driven car.
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Old 05-21-2009, 09:25 AM   #7
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Please, for the love of God, do not start that discussion. If you want to know why folks think it's a bad idea to run a cage on the street, search it.
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Old 05-21-2009, 11:27 AM   #8
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im from Detroit were you see full tubed out drag cars with 25.5 cages in them on the street..
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Old 05-21-2009, 11:43 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mateospeed View Post
Please, for the love of God, do not start that discussion. If you want to know why folks think it's a bad idea to run a cage on the street, search it.
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Old 05-21-2009, 12:02 PM   #10
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im from Detroit were you see full tubed out drag cars with 25.5 cages in them on the street..
And? Does that make it a good idea? Do what you want.
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Old 05-21-2009, 12:15 PM   #11
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what would it hurt to drive a fully caged car on the street? It would be a lot safer than stock right?...
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Old 05-21-2009, 12:20 PM   #12
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Because you now have a lot of metal to bang your head and body against in an accident. If you plan to wear 5/6 point harness and your helmet every time you drive on the street, than yes, it would be safer.
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Old 05-21-2009, 12:20 PM   #13
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To build one that could potentially be legal for SCCA club racing - You need DOM (drawn over mandrel) steel 1.75 OD x .095 (min) wall thickness.

We used .120 wall for the main hoop and .095 for the cross bracing on my car.

The other thing to check into are attaching points and door bar design. The funny thing about roll cages is that within SCCA the requirements have changed a couple of times in the last 10 years. For IT cars the regs went from being pretty loose, to being extremely tight, to now a decent compromise between the two. They could always change again in the future. If I were you, once the cage is built get an inspector from SCCA (or NASA) to come out and stamp it. That way it is approved to the current requirements, if they change you are grandfathered in.

It is a reallll pain in the a$$ to drive with the cage on the street. I do it a couple of days a week to commute to work (gets better gas mileage than my truck).. but you have to become a gymnast to get in and out of the car.

As far as safety goes, theres people on boths sides ... unfortunately I have a feeling that this is where your thread is going to devolve to.
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Old 05-21-2009, 12:21 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by mav1c View Post
If you plan to wear 5/6 point harness and your helmet every time you drive on the street, than yes, it would be safer.

OOO OOO do that! It would be sweeet!
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Old 05-21-2009, 12:26 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by generalee69 View Post
To build one that could potentially be legal for SCCA club racing - You need DOM (drawn over mandrel) steel 1.75 OD x .095 (min) wall thickness.

We used .120 wall for the main hoop and .095 for the cross bracing on my car.

The other thing to check into are attaching points and door bar design. The funny thing about roll cages is that within SCCA the requirements have changed a couple of times in the last 10 years. For IT cars the regs went from being pretty loose, to being extremely tight, to now a decent compromise between the two. They could always change again in the future. If I were you, once the cage is built get an inspector from SCCA (or NASA) to come out and stamp it. That way it is approved to the current requirements, if they change you are grandfathered in.

It is a reallll pain in the a$$ to drive with the cage on the street. I do it a couple of days a week to commute to work (gets better gas mileage than my truck).. but you have to become a gymnast to get in and out of the car.

As far as safety goes, theres people on boths sides ... unfortunately I have a feeling that this is where your thread is going to devolve to.

Thanks for your info. I was looking at the rule book and seen you can you alloy steel. As i Crom alloy ?
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Old 05-21-2009, 12:48 PM   #16
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This will be a track only car. Pretty much trying to make a clean quick solo car for time attack ..
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Old 05-21-2009, 12:51 PM   #17
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I'm pretty sure that both SCCA and NASA require DOM these days.

As for the cage on the street, yes, it's unsafe unless you use a 5 point harness and a helmet.

Let's keep the pros and cons of driving on the street out of this convo though....

-mike
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Old 05-21-2009, 01:23 PM   #18
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I suspect they outlaw chromoly because it has to be stress relieved after welding and too many people don't do it. It's more brittle too so, the possibility of it snapping and spearing the driver is higher. Not many drag cars have to worry about getting T-boned on track.

To the OP, what you really ought to do is find a cage builder and talk to him. Tell him your plans and see what he comes up with. You want to make sure he knows how to do a road race cage. This isn't something you want to cobble together yourself.
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Old 05-21-2009, 01:51 PM   #19
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I suspect they outlaw chromoly because it has to be stress relieved after welding and too many people don't do it. It's more brittle too so, the possibility of it snapping and spearing the driver is higher. Not many drag cars have to worry about getting T-boned on track.

To the OP, what you really ought to do is find a cage builder and talk to him. Tell him your plans and see what he comes up with. You want to make sure he knows how to do a road race cage. This isn't something you want to cobble together yourself.

In the scca rule book i looked at online it says dom alloy can be used. would that be chromoly?
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Old 05-21-2009, 02:02 PM   #20
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pretty much found everything on http://www.nasaproracing.com/hpde/

2501 - 3000 lbs.
1.500” x 0.120” Chrome-moly / Seamless mild steel (DOM)
1.750” x 0.095” Chrome-moly / Seamless mild steel (DOM)
1.750” x 0.120” ERW* (No issuance of log books for cars with ERW cages 04/30/03)
*Note- Specifications listed for reference for inspection of grandfathered vehicles.
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Old 05-21-2009, 02:04 PM   #21
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i just figured that nasa is more geared to time attack events and road racing courses
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Old 05-21-2009, 02:15 PM   #22
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Yeah, GCR does say you can use it. Ask you cage builder if they pre-heat and stress relieve the welds. Most cages are DOM as has already been stated.

Quote:
ROLL BARS/CAGES:
4- point roll bar and 6 or 8-point roll cage designs constructed per the NASA CCR may be utilized without a TT modification point assessment. Additional bars and/or attachment points within the driver’s compartment that exceed the allowances in the CCR are also permitted. The following roll cage designs are permitted but will be assessed points as follows:
1) One or more bars that penetrate the front bulkhead/firewall +2
2) One or more bars that are welded to the chassis (directly or with a plate) anywhere farther than 6” from the end of a tube where it terminates at a plate +2
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Old 05-21-2009, 02:21 PM   #23
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So i will be doing chro-moly . Pretty much setting this up as a time attack car . so the lighter material should help . and i will have it heat treated and stress relived.
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Old 05-21-2009, 02:27 PM   #24
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I hope you have a lot of money to spend. Cro-moly will cost at least double the cost of mild steel. I asked about this when I had my cage built and Mitch said that 99% of the cages they build are mild steel. He said cromoly is only used by people that have have too much money and are super anal about being as light as possible.
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Old 05-21-2009, 02:39 PM   #25
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I'm going to add to that a little...

Chromoly also requires much better fit at the joints for TIG welding. You had better be certain your cage builder is above and beyond the next guy! With mild steel it's possible to get welds that are still 100% safe but are not fit as well as a chromoly joint MUST be. Please think about that. This is your safety. It SHOULD cost at least twice as much for a chromoly cage just due to the extra time and skill required during fabrication.


(imho)
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