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Old 05-28-2009, 07:45 PM   #1
sti4rs
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Default BSP Build

First off, I am not sure this is the right spot to post this, so please let me know if I should move it or whatever.

So I have been autocrossing in AS for almost 3 years now (since my 2006 STI was brand new). I did:
- front sway bar (whiteline adjustable 24mm)
- Koni inserts (let me tell you that was a PITA)
- 4 point harness
- SPT cat back exhaust
- 1/4 spacers so I can run Kumho V710 275/40/R17 on my stock 8" BBS rims
- K and N air filter
- Hawk Brake HP+ pads

I am now ready to jump to BSP and this is where I need your feedback. I am thinking of doing the following mods where the goal is to have a car with the potential of being competitive in BSP where the limitation is the driver and not the car.

- Engine Management: AccessPORT
- Downpipe: 3" SS Street Downpipe w/ Cat
- Uppipe: Grimmspeed Up Pipe
- Intake: Short Ram SF Intake System
- Pulley: COBB Lightweight Pulley
- Plugs: NGK IX Iridium Spark Plug
- Injectors: Deatschwerks 1000cc Top Feed Injectors
- Pump: Walbro Fuel Pump 255LPH
- Headers: Gruppe-S Unequal Length Header (i want to keep the boxer sounds so i am going with unequal length)
- TGV Delete: JDM TGV Delete Risers- Top Feed
- Coilovers: Racecomp Engineering spec RZ RS Pro's with 700lbs springs up front and 600lbs springs in the rear.
- Cambers plates: included with the above coilovers
- Misc: Exhaust Wrap
- Tune: 4 Custom Dyno Tunes - Pump,Race Gas,E85, E95 (I will mainly be running E85 for street and track even though i dont really drive this car on the street much anymore)

I also have a clutch and pressure plate sitting at my house so no need for feed back there.

I did not include prices since i am looking for parts feedback and not where to buy the parts.

Thanks in advance.
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Last edited by sti4rs; 06-03-2009 at 05:38 PM. Reason: Updated part list
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Old 05-28-2009, 07:56 PM   #2
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I would think the RCE T2 coilovers would not be able to handle enough spring rate for an STI to be competitive in BSP.

I'd go with 1000 cc injectors if you are even considering running E85 and a upgraded turbo. I am also very interested to see what the difference (HP and torque curves) between C16 and E85 is when properly tuned for each.

For the up pipe I'd go with an external wastegate if the rules allow it, and the new Grimmspeed ones are very nice.

More important than all that other stuff- what spring rates are you going to run, with what swaybars, on what tires and wheels.
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Old 05-28-2009, 08:27 PM   #3
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Old 05-28-2009, 09:34 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdi View Post
I read most of that and this is what I have come up with. Anything specific that I should adjust?

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedyHAM View Post
I would think the RCE T2 coilovers would not be able to handle enough spring rate for an STI to be competitive in BSP.
Do you have a suggestion as to what I should get? This is the most important thing that I want to change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedyHAM View Post
I'd go with 1000 cc injectors if you are even considering running E85 and a upgraded turbo. I am also very interested to see what the difference (HP and torque curves) between C16 and E85 is when properly tuned for each.
Ya, I should have mentioned that I was already thinking that. This will just confirm that I should go to 1000cc injectors. Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedyHAM View Post
For the up pipe I'd go with an external wastegate if the rules allow it, and the new Grimmspeed ones are very nice.
I will try to find out if I can do that. I think I should be able to. I will let you know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedyHAM View Post
More important than all that other stuff- what spring rates are you going to run, with what swaybars, on what tires and wheels.
I was going to keep the upgraded front sway bar I got. Is that too small? I will try to find which one I put on. Should I upgrade the rear one (currently it is stock)?

Regarding spring rates, I have no idea... looks like I need more research.

Tires, I was going to stay with the V710 or maybe switch back to the A6 (I used the A6s before and they are great but wear very fast - I currently go through about three sets of V710s a year - I do about 25 events or so a year and planning on more this year and next and I have a co-driver). I was thinking about getting a 9.5 or 10 wide rim and trying to run up to 315s at the beginning of next year.


Thanks for the tips... keep them coming.
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Old 05-28-2009, 10:38 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by speedyHAM View Post
For the up pipe I'd go with an external wastegate if the rules allow it, and the new Grimmspeed ones are very nice.
Ok, so if I am reading this correct, I can not do that.
15.10.4.b Says:
No changes are allowed to waste gate(s) size, number, or
location. No changes are allowed to variable-geometryturbine
(VGT) hardware.
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Old 05-28-2009, 11:52 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by sti4rs View Post
I am now ready to jump to BSP and this is where I need your feedback. I am thinking of doing the following mods where the goal is to have a car with the potential of being competitive in BSP where the limitation is the driver and not the car.
At what level are competing? Just locally or nationally?

The STI is overmatched in BSP by the EVO at the national level. It may do well locally but the EVO has many advantages over it and it shows in results from national events.

Honestly, save some of your money and go to STU or buy an EVO for BSP. You will stand more of chance in either one of those.


Oh and I don't know where the other poster got his information about the RCE T2 not being valved correctly to handle a high spring rate. Get your own info, talk to RCE and get a dyno graph from them.
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Old 05-29-2009, 12:48 AM   #7
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At what level are competing? Just locally or nationally?
Mainly locally, but I am very likely to do the packwood event and possibly the san diego event (and thats where national champ evo is)

Quote:
Originally Posted by steveRS View Post
The STI is overmatched in BSP by the EVO at the national level. It may do well locally but the EVO has many advantages over it and it shows in results from national events.

Honestly, save some of your money and go to STU or buy an EVO for BSP. You will stand more of chance in either one of those.
Basically I want to build the best STI for BSP possible, maybe a losing ticket, but thats what I am doing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by steveRS View Post
Oh and I don't know where the other poster got his information about the RCE T2 not being valved correctly to handle a high spring rate. Get your own info, talk to RCE and get a dyno graph from them.
I have read and heard good things about the RCE T2 and plan to get more info. Do you (or anyone) have a suggestion on spring rate? I read the "BSP.... the competition..." thread and they talk about 12k and 10k spring rates for the vettes but how does that relate to 700 lbs/in or 400 lbs/in ...what is the conversion?

I am not sure I can say thanks enough. BTW, I am planning on doing this the week after the 4th of July and going to Packwood the 11th and 12th with the new setup.
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Old 05-29-2009, 01:16 AM   #8
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Mainly locally, but I am very likely to do the packwood event and possibly the san diego event (and thats where national champ evo is)
come down to L.A. with what you have now and get Tom Berry to drive it (he's a very nice gentleman). if you can get within 1/2 a second of his time, go build the car. if not, spend the $$ on evo school and seat time.

also, i'm not really sure how having a highly tuned car with loads of set up adjustment makes the driver the limitation
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Old 05-29-2009, 01:49 AM   #9
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come down to L.A. with what you have now and get Tom Berry to drive it (he's a very nice gentleman).
I might do that before, but more likely it will be after, its a long drive though (15 hours or so).
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Old 05-29-2009, 06:50 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by sti4rs View Post
I read the "BSP.... the competition..." thread and they talk about 12k and 10k spring rates for the vettes but how does that relate to 700 lbs/in or 400 lbs/in ...what is the conversion?
Conversion is K * 56 12K*56=672lb 10K*56=560lb
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Old 05-29-2009, 07:52 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steveRS View Post
The STI is overmatched in BSP by the EVO at the national level. It may do well locally but the EVO has many advantages over it and it shows in results from national events.
I wouldn't go that far, Steve. I don't think there has been a driver comparable to Tom Berry in a comparably built STi at the same National event yet. No offense to anyone here, but Tom is one of those Daddio/Priebe/Tunnell kind of people who is damned good in whatever he drives.

Karen
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Old 05-29-2009, 08:42 AM   #12
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I'd go with 1000 cc injectors if you are even considering running E85 and a upgraded turbo.
Can you upgrade just the turbo in BSP?
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Old 05-29-2009, 09:16 AM   #13
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I wouldn't go that far, Steve. I don't think there has been a driver comparable to Tom Berry in a comparably built STi at the same National event yet. No offense to anyone here, but Tom is one of those Daddio/Priebe/Tunnell kind of people who is damned good in whatever he drives.

Karen
I would. I have driven (and owned) both. The EVO and STI are not on equal footing until you get to street mod. Even then, the restrictions on the rules on bracing, cutting holes (for the front mount intercooler) and ALK still put the evo at a smaller advantage, but I think the evo would still win in SM with equal levels of preperation. But it would be a very tough fight.
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Old 05-29-2009, 10:45 AM   #14
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I would. I have driven (and owned) both. The EVO and STI are not on equal footing until you get to street mod.
I've driven (though not owned) both too. I drove with Aaron and Frank Miller at the Peru Pro in 2006 when Joel Fehrman couldn't make it. Aaron, for the record, coned away the win over Tom Berry this past year at Nationals, and the car itself is the former Tak/Lieber car that won ESP before the cars were banished to BSP.

The cars have different strengths and weaknesses (same with the BMW M3; I have also driven Lee Piccione's M3). I still think that a good chunk of the Evo's "dominance" is driver and lack of equivalent drivers in equivalently prepped STis.

I'm done with the thread hi-jack. The OP asked about BSP setup for his STI.

I'm currently building an ESP WRX, using a lot of the same setup from Fehrman's STi. I'll be taking it out for the first time on Sunday, but this is what I'm starting with :

* 800lb front/650lb rear Hypercoil springs mated to AST 5200 struts (from Vorshlag Motorsports. Joel had the zzyzx coilovers on his car, but Steve is on hiatus right now so I couldn't get a set made for me.
* Vorshlag camber plates (with the coilover package)
* 27/29mm Whiteline adjustable front bar -- this is a holdover from the DS setup, and I might be disconnecting it to see how that works (and if it does work, I would end up just removing it)
* stock rear bar -- I might be changing this based on how this weekend goes
* 295/30R18 A6s -- I can't afford to do all three diffs, so I'm trying to compensate with more tire.
* STi intercooler
* Cobb AP
* upgraded pitchstop/engine mount, strut tower bars, intake, downpipe, and probably some other stuff I'm not remembering (not sure what kind IAG decided to put on the car)

When you say "turbo upgrade," you do realize that you can't change turbos except through update/backdate, and even then, you can only change the turbo alone if the block is the same part number. Otherwise, you have to swap the engine and turbo as a package. For instance, if I wanted to use the turbo from a 2003 WRX (just an example), I would also have to switch to the 2.0L motor with the turbo.

You should consider upgraded differentials. Seriously, that one mod made a huge difference in the ability to put down power in Joel's STi.

Karen

Last edited by CamaroFS34; 05-29-2009 at 12:50 PM. Reason: speeling misstake
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Old 05-29-2009, 11:06 AM   #15
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To emphasize Karen's point.....good differentials will make more impact on the performance than power or torque will. Tires/wheels are a given. Well damped struts and springs are a given. Diffs are sometimes given the lowest priority, but they really do make a world of difference.


Jay
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Old 05-29-2009, 12:37 PM   #16
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thanks for the good posts guys. i am running off to work (can't work on cars all the time) but i wanted to clarify one thing, i am not doing the turbo upgrade for at least a couple years but just wanted to keep in mind what i can do now at no extra cost or disadvantage that would save me from replacing parts later.
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Old 05-29-2009, 01:08 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by CamaroFS34 View Post

I'm currently building an ESP WRX, using a lot of the same setup from Fehrman's STi. I'll be taking it out for the first time on Sunday, but this is what I'm starting with :

* 800lb front/650lb rear Hypercoil springs mated to AST 5200 struts (from Vorshlag Motorsports. Joel had the zzyzx coilovers on his car, but Steve is on hiatus right now so I couldn't get a set made for me.
* Vorshlag camber plates (with the coilover package)
* 27/29mm Whiteline adjustable front bar -- this is a holdover from the DS setup, and I might be disconnecting it to see how that works (and if it does work, I would end up just removing it)
* stock rear bar -- I might be changing this based on how this weekend goes
* 295/30R18 A6s -- I can't afford to do all three diffs, so I'm trying to compensate with more tire.
* STi intercooler
* Cobb AP
* upgraded pitchstop/engine mount, strut tower bars, intake, downpipe, and probably some other stuff I'm not remembering (not sure what kind IAG decided to put on the car)

You should considered upgraded differentials. Seriously, that one mod made a huge difference in the ability to put down power in Joel's STi.

Karen
i'm not an subie guy, but I'd guess that with those springs and bars that your car will push.

getting rid of your push (stiffer rear springs/bars) and bigger tires are going to make the lack of diff problem worse (more lateral grip means less load on the inside tires at corner exit). At the very least you HAVE TO HAVE a rear diff.


...but what do I know, i'm just guessing.
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Old 05-29-2009, 01:13 PM   #18
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Mainly locally, but I am very likely to do the packwood event and possibly the san diego event (and thats where national champ evo is)
who says we won't be up in packwood too?
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Old 05-29-2009, 01:15 PM   #19
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...but what do I know, i'm just guessing.
I'm just guessing too.

Hi, Marshall!
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Old 05-29-2009, 01:16 PM   #20
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If you multiply 55.88 by the number of kilograms you will get your lbs per in.

Packwood Wa June 13th and 14th ? I'll be there on the 13th, perhaps I will see you there.

Travis
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Old 05-29-2009, 05:07 PM   #21
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who says we won't be up in packwood too?
what, do you get instant alerts any time the car's mentioned
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Old 05-29-2009, 07:00 PM   #22
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Basically I want to build the best STI for BSP possible, maybe a losing ticket, but thats what I am doing.
It's expensive. Plainly put there are really, really, really good drivers in EVO's at Nationals that just hurt to drive against. My 04STi has been in BSP for the last 3 years and I just don't think it can compete in the big show. I have good standards to compare against here in western PA, the only unknown is how Nationals in Lincoln will affect the BSP battle. I have won 2 Tours and a Pro and trophied at Nats in BSP, on my best days I can keep up and sometimes overtake. If someone would toss an extra 4k my way I would go to nationals but it's just too expensive. You really need to have a lot of expendable cash flow to do a BSP car absolutely perfect. Mine is at ~90%, I'd say a new front diff and maybe a center would put me in BSP with every available mod.

Just build for SM and have fun!

Last edited by crystalhelix; 05-29-2009 at 07:05 PM.
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Old 05-29-2009, 08:07 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by steveRS View Post
Oh and I don't know where the other poster got his information about the RCE T2 not being valved correctly to handle a high spring rate. Get your own info, talk to RCE and get a dyno graph from them.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...7&postcount=11

I have also read a few posts about people running 700 lb/in (or higher) on them, so the valving is pretty flexible. Myles will definitely be able to help you out with technical details and provide different spring rates if that's the route you choose.
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Old 05-29-2009, 09:05 PM   #24
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I'm just guessing too.

Hi, Marshall!
Don't forget the 07 gear box, i'm not guessing, haha.
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Old 05-29-2009, 11:40 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by recnelis View Post
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...7&postcount=11

I have also read a few posts about people running 700 lb/in (or higher) on them, so the valving is pretty flexible. Myles will definitely be able to help you out with technical details and provide different spring rates if that's the route you choose.
I discussed this very issue with Myles before deciding not to go with the T2's. According to Myles the rears can not handle anything over 550 lb/in or so. That is what he told me 1-1/2 yeas ago when I asked him. Since I was planning at that time to run 650 lb/in rear springs I went a different route. Definitely ask him these questions before you buy. Expensive coil overs that are underdamped for the springs you want to run are a huge waste of money, I know that from my first set of coil overs.
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