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Old 09-19-2012, 12:46 PM   #3401
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I've been to a chiropractor. Nice guy, loved him, but he was never able to alleviate my back or groin/hip issues. That was back when I was kickboxing. That got so bad that I stopped, even though I loved it. I haven't been able to properly thai kick in two years.

I recently went to a PT place and he wasn't able to do anything for me. He actually referred me back out to an orthopedic place to get a shot for my lower back (which I haven't) and in hopes that someone could diagnose my hip issue.

I've also been to an orthopedic surgeon. Had my hip MRI'd, they said there was nothing structurally wrong with it.

I'm looking into ART because I've heard of good results. Frankly, I'm scared of going back to a chiropractor again. My insurance benefits aren't as good as they once were and I'm afraid that I'm going to spend a bundle of money, waste a lot of time, and see no results.

Were there any special exercises he had you do or was there anything specifically that gave you relief? We're going on a screaming pain in my right leg since my massage on Sunday.
Wow, you've done quite a bit for it. I guess after all that, at this point I would say maybe find someone who does ART and give it a shot - it seems like it maybe be the only remaining option. For most it only seems to take a few sessions (2-4) for it to be effective. I know with my issue I only saw the chiro 3 times and it seems to have worked (was hobbling around for about a month before I went to see him and I was just about fine by the 2nd appointment - just a few days after I first saw him). My chiro also did some Graston stuff which is supposedly more targeted and more effective for fascia-like tissue.

I also foam roll and got some very deep tissue massage - the roller doesn't seem to be able to penetrate an area as specific as the TFL but rolling around on a tennis ball might do the trick.

And what ptirmal said - if the injury is still acute, aggressive massage and ART isn't a good thing to do just yet.

(and my issues are due to a combo of running and traditional Korean MA - so a lot of kicking/deep stances/plyo).

Good luck.
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Old 09-19-2012, 12:50 PM   #3402
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Were there any special exercises he had you do or was there anything specifically that gave you relief? We're going on a screaming pain in my right leg since my massage on Sunday.
A good ART practitioner will send you home with exercises. They will also do adjustments like what you probably got with your chiro. I go in once a month for regular maintenance and more frequently if a specific spot I can't reach very well on my own (middle and upper back) is acting up.

Couple things I learned (the hard way), are to let your body rest a day or two after ART. My sessions are between half an hour to an hour so there's a fair amount of digging around going on. You feel so good after that it's sometimes tough to recognize that your body needs to heal from the ART. Also learned that when things are really knotted up, a sports massage/trigger point massage a day or 2 before ART helps break the tissue up, making the ART session more useful.
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Old 09-19-2012, 01:49 PM   #3403
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PR'D grace today !!! 2:18 RX ! ^ great job on Angie today !
Damn, man, that's a great Grace time.


We did Randy yesterday, 75reps of 75# Power Snatch, for time. 75 reps is a LOT. I finished in 8:20, I hate the Snatch, muscle, power, or otherwise.
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Old 09-19-2012, 01:50 PM   #3404
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thanks for the tips guys. didn't realize ART lasted so long. just got another name of someone through the crossfit community.
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Old 09-19-2012, 01:51 PM   #3405
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"... I hate the Snatch, muscle, power, or otherwise."
where does the female snatch stand?

/cant go a week without a good snatch joke.
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Old 09-19-2012, 01:54 PM   #3406
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Damn, man, that's a great Grace time.

We did Randy yesterday, 75reps of 75# Power Snatch, for time. 75 reps is a LOT. I finished in 8:20, I hate the Snatch, muscle, power, or otherwise.
Thanks man it was brutal ! Lol doing Karen today ! Girls week at my box but I'm turning Karen into the open WOD (wall balls, double unders, muscle ups)
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Old 09-19-2012, 02:08 PM   #3407
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the "girls" are pretty rough most of the time. cold hearless bitches they are.
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Old 09-19-2012, 02:42 PM   #3408
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My first official Crossfit workout done. Barbara: 36:04. The pullups were definitely the hardest. Fresh, I can do about 15 in one shot, so the first set wasn't bad, but then each time, my first burst was fewer and fewer, so the pull-ups were taking longer than any other set. The other exercises, I probably could have done the full set straight through, but I would usually take a break or two to make sure I didn't completely bonk. I think with continued work on pullups, and really pushing the others, I can get sub-30.

EDIT: my time includes the 12-minutes of rest. I don't know what the "proper" way to post the time is. I didn't individually time each round, either.
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Old 09-19-2012, 06:31 PM   #3409
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Thx, good info. I'm 6', 180, so I'm no lightweight.
Yes you are
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Old 09-19-2012, 07:07 PM   #3410
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This past Sunday was pretty deep tissue as well as stretching. It was a Thai type massage. Was a bit painful at the time, but I didn't think I'd be limping around.

I've used both a rumble type roller that was ribbed - not knobby - and both a white and black plain foam roller. I've tried the stick, tiger tail, etc but its tough to get in that hip crease with it. I've used the lacrosse ball and that gets it, but that really lights it up too. I guess I'm looking for this big release, because it feels like its pinched.

I was following all the mobility WOD stuff but then there came a time when it was painful and I cut back on the stretching. The PT guy advised me not to stretch because I may be aggravating it, and I've just started to get back into stretching. No amount of stretching every seemed to work it out though.

There's a local ART guy that I want to check out, but he's just chiropractic and not a PT place.

Am I wrong to want a PT place that does ART rather than a chiropractic place? One - I have better benefits for PT and Two - I believe in it as a more viable long term solution then just adjustments at a chiropractor.

My chiropractor does ART and Graston Technique and he is awesome and well worth the money.
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Old 09-19-2012, 07:59 PM   #3411
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Redemption !!!!! I did that open wod today ! I got through 16 of the muscle ups ! Last open I could only get to through the double unders. I'm pretty stoked about that score needles to say.
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Old 09-20-2012, 08:49 AM   #3412
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Yes you are
OK, tough guy.... I'm comparing to the "little" dudes that are like 5'7", 150lbs (and may be ripped as s**t, that's not the point), who can throw themselves up on a pull-up bar 50 times because their travel distance is like 14". I have a long way up....
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Old 09-20-2012, 08:53 AM   #3413
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My chiropractor does ART and Graston Technique and he is awesome and well worth the money.
Graston, when inflicting mortal pain isn't enough.

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BacDoc has had Graston a couple times several years ago, the bruises are almost gone.
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Old 09-20-2012, 08:59 AM   #3414
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Graston, when inflicting mortal pain isn't enough.

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BacDoc has had Graston a couple times several years ago, the bruises are almost gone.



So, they basically tenderize you??
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Old 09-20-2012, 09:15 AM   #3415
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OK, tough guy.... I'm comparing to the "little" dudes that are like 5'7", 150lbs (and may be ripped as s**t, that's not the point), who can throw themselves up on a pull-up bar 50 times because their travel distance is like 14". I have a long way up....
Lol I think what he means, is at 5'7 150-160lbs you can be pretty thick and muscular. Generally the roll of thumb for healthy adult makes is that every inch of height is approximately 10lbs.

Any 6 footer less than 200lbs is pretty thin. It would be impossible to carry a whole ton o muscle at 6ff 180. You may have height but your frame isn't filled out.
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Old 09-20-2012, 09:17 AM   #3416
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Graston Technique - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So, they basically tenderize you??
Yeah, it's the most painful "massage" ever. But it was the only thing that helped my sciatica issue.
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Old 09-20-2012, 09:19 AM   #3417
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I felt really good about my performance yesterday. Best in the "class" (there's just a small group of us that do CF).

11 minutes flat to do 84 pullups and 84 dips.

Now, I realize that some of you that have kipping down to a science could probably have finished in 5 minutes flat, but I don't.

2nd place was around 14:30, so I feel pretty good about it. It's rare I am in the lead.
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Old 09-20-2012, 09:29 AM   #3418
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Lol I think what he means, is at 5'7 150-160lbs you can be pretty thick and muscular. Generally the roll of thumb for healthy adult makes is that every inch of height is approximately 10lbs.

Any 6 footer less than 200lbs is pretty thin. It would be impossible to carry a whole ton o muscle at 6ff 180. You may have height but your frame isn't filled out.
I'm 72" tall.....so my ideal weight is 720 lbs?!?!?!

Point is, no, I'm not 'huge,' but not many people would look at me right now and say, "hey, look at that little dude..." I think what I was really trying to highlight is, I'm not "compact," and when you're swinging from a pull-up bar, that's a big disadvantage. If I was some marathon runner and only 155 pounds, that would counter some of that, but at (actually, now) 185, it makes pull-ups one of the toughest things for me.
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Old 09-20-2012, 09:32 AM   #3419
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I felt really good about my performance yesterday. Best in the "class" (there's just a small group of us that do CF).

11 minutes flat to do 84 pullups and 84 dips.

Now, I realize that some of you that have kipping down to a science could probably have finished in 5 minutes flat, but I don't.

2nd place was around 14:30, so I feel pretty good about it. It's rare I am in the lead.
All 84 pullups before moving on to dips? If you don't kip, I assume there's still some leg action? I don't kip, but I have a little leg kick.

General q: how does kipping compare, philosophically, to what I've seen called the 'butterfly' technique? Just another way to skin the cat?
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Old 09-20-2012, 09:34 AM   #3420
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Graston Technique - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So, they basically tenderize you??
Tenderize is a good word for it. Like scraping bone.

Pete, next time get some anterior tib or rhomboid work done. It literally feels like they are scraping bone.
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Old 09-20-2012, 09:36 AM   #3421
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Butterfly is just another slightly more advanced kipping technique. Probably slightly more risky as you can bottom out pretty easily if you don't have the strength to cycle them efficiently. Like muscle ups, I would rather any athlete that I'm training have solid shoulder girdle strength and the ability to do a number of strict pullups before adding a dynamic phase into it. Take weak shoulders and scapular retraction, add in a dynamic movement plus a lot of work and it may be a setup for an injury.
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Old 09-20-2012, 09:47 AM   #3422
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Butterfly is just another slightly more advanced kipping technique. Probably slightly more risky as you can bottom out pretty easily if you don't have the strength to cycle them efficiently. Like muscle ups, I would rather any athlete that I'm training have solid shoulder girdle strength and the ability to do a number of strict pullups before adding a dynamic phase into it. Take weak shoulders and scapular retraction, add in a dynamic movement plus a lot of work and it may be a setup for an injury.
well said, makes sense, thanks!
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Old 09-20-2012, 10:32 AM   #3423
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Crossfit games question: Are there any PED testing for the athletes?





Crossfit games were on ESPN The Ocho or whatever channel it's on at the bar last night, and I made the statement that these guys all look like linebackers, but in reality, are small (vs your average CFB/NFL linebacker) and to look that ripped up doesn't take a needle. Yeah, some are 'big' (6' to 6'1", 200-215lbs) but that's not 'big' in an NFL or Strongman sense, or even an eyeball test.

However, 2 other guys disagreed, saying that simply looking at the musculature of most of the guys kinda proves that these guys are injecting, or have done at least a couple cycles. Their argument is that to look like the men in CFGames you need to a)do traditional lifts and b)steroids to achieve that size/physique.

This then morphed into the argument of 'is it possible to get that big and ripped on only Crossfit?'
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Old 09-20-2012, 10:44 AM   #3424
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Butterfly is just another slightly more advanced kipping technique. Probably slightly more risky as you can bottom out pretty easily if you don't have the strength to cycle them efficiently. Like muscle ups, I would rather any athlete that I'm training have solid shoulder girdle strength and the ability to do a number of strict pullups before adding a dynamic phase into it. Take weak shoulders and scapular retraction, add in a dynamic movement plus a lot of work and it may be a setup for an injury.
butterfly kipping has been criticized for quite some time now by many many people including people in the Crossfit community. i for one decided to never do butterfly pullups as i simply don't think that the gain is worth the risks.
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Old 09-20-2012, 10:50 AM   #3425
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butterfly kipping has been criticized for quite some time now by many many people including people in the Crossfit community. i for one decided to never do butterfly pullups as i simply don't think that the gain is worth the risks.
I've never really tried to convert to butterfly either...the downswing feels like you could really mess your arms up if you got tired/used the wrong form/etc. There's no doubt that they provide a distinct advantage in speed. You can butterfly way faster than you can do traditional kipping pullups.
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