Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Monday July 28, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Miscellaneous > Off-Topic

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-19-2013, 12:04 PM   #4026
Rattles
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 16486
Join Date: Mar 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Somewhere in New England..
Vehicle:
2006 Jeep

Default

here is the standards for shoulders to overhead from the CF site:

Shoulder to Overhead: The start of each rep will be the front rack position. The end of each rep will be counted when full lockout of knees, hips, shoulders, and elbows is achieved.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Rattles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2013, 12:06 PM   #4027
Rattles
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 16486
Join Date: Mar 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Somewhere in New England..
Vehicle:
2006 Jeep

Default

and specifically for 13.2:

For the Shoulder to overhead to count, the barbell will move from the shoulders to the overhead position with the knees, hips and shoulders extended in one line
Rattles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2013, 01:04 PM   #4028
sonicblue
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 25227
Join Date: Sep 2002
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Oh s**t I ain't from Brooklyn!
Vehicle:
2006 Kodo Homage
Dark Titanium

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by totalburnout View Post
Jeez, that video that was linked above was really not that egregious. It was tough to tell if he ever completely opened up his hips on the deadlift since it wasn't a side angle. He certainly didn't overextend but he came very close to open if not open.

The box jumps were close too. Hips looked open for the position he was in but he never fully stood, so he again was very close but not clear.

The shoulder to overhead. He had the issue with the snatch. The other reps did look good.

I only watched about 4 minutes before I got bored, so it's entirely possible my comments are crap because quality may have deteriorated even more.
I think his deadlifts were the closest to valid, and maybe all were, like you said, bad angle. The presses weren't even close. On the box, in my mind, I see it as, for any given rep, if someone yelled "stop" right at the moment your hips fully opened, you should be able to stay on top of the box. He was consistently angled about 10 degrees backward, so yeah, he was trying to hit the open position, but while falling backwards.
sonicblue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2013, 01:58 PM   #4029
totalburnout
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 72861
Join Date: Oct 2004
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: North Jersey
Default

I won't disagree with the box jumps. I guess I'd have to watch the presses again but it sounds like i must have missed the lack of range of motion because it appears there's a general consensus that they didn't go far enough.

From the definitions posted above, as long as its from a front rack position and doesn't necessarily have to touch chest or shoulders, I would've thought it wouldn't jumped out at me much more on the reps I saw to say 'wow, he's not going down past his chin on the way down.'
totalburnout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2013, 02:01 PM   #4030
EnterTheDragon
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 6511
Join Date: May 2001
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: West of the Atlantic
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rattles View Post

You know what the sad part is? Last year he had quite a few articles about him hailing him as the next Froning. The guy has a serious engine and really did quite well for himself before this whole thing. I am willing to bet that he could have gotten a great score even by following the standards, he just got greedy and decided to cheat to get to the top.
No doubt he has an engine and would have done well held to standards. I wonder how much this is on him or on his box letting him develope to subpar standards, maybe that's all he knows?

I last judged two years ago and like need said its difficult...especially for 300+' reps but that's your fin job. Allowing that, while recording brings into question the credibility of your athlete box coach and judge. Coach needed to call no rep ASAP, que josh on what he's missing and get those reps counted.
EnterTheDragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2013, 02:21 PM   #4031
Tim K.
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 214
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Sumter, SC
Vehicle:
2014 Massey Ferguson
Red

Default



For the Shoulder to overhead to count, the barbell will move from the shoulders to the overhead position with the knees, hips and shoulders extended in one line.



The athlete will start with two feet on the ground and come to a standing position with knees and hips locked out on top of the box. Two-foot jumps, one-foot jumps and step-ups are all permitted.

Standards look clear and well defined. The video also demonstrates those standards in motion. Based on how CFHQ defined the standards, Josh didn't come close on the box jumps or shoulder to overhead.

But according to Josh's Box, it was all the 'haters' that caused his DQ... way to take responsibility people.
Tim K. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2013, 02:23 PM   #4032
totalburnout
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 72861
Join Date: Oct 2004
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: North Jersey
Default

I didn't compete this year but I'm still not clear on the shoulder to overhead if the bar needs to rest on the shoulders like the picture or if it just needs to be dropped to a level that is at or below that point.

Box jumps are clear in that he never stood up fully. I thought he was in control and he didn't look as though he was falling backwards or purposely springing backwards and opening his hips in the air like people often times do, instead of opening their hips on the box.
totalburnout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2013, 02:40 PM   #4033
redobs
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 1501
Join Date: May 2000
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Nashua, NH
Vehicle:
2009 WRX wagon
Dark grey

Default

Well I could tell you if it needs to touch the shoulders I wouldn't be able to get past the first round. I lack mobility in my shoulders and physically cannot touch my shoulders.
redobs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2013, 03:18 PM   #4034
SCGT
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 34644
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Phoenix AZ
Vehicle:
2007 BMW 335i
Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by totalburnout View Post
You can clean and jerk or clean + push press. Those were essentially your best options or if you're just a shoulder beast and have weak legs, you could strict press and save your legs for the box jumps/deads
But isn't a strict press from a very different starting position? No one strict presses from a rack position. Unless you have scissor-lift-triceps.
SCGT is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2013, 03:35 PM   #4035
Neek
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 3400
Join Date: Jan 2001
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Vehicle:
2013 Gojira
2007 Triumph Speed Triple

Default

That's why the movement is defined as "shoulders to overhead" in the standards. That way the movement is from racked across the shoulders to locked overhead. You are allowed to do them as a strict press, push press, or jerks if necessary
Neek is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2013, 03:39 PM   #4036
totalburnout
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 72861
Join Date: Oct 2004
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: North Jersey
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCGT View Post

But isn't a strict press from a very different starting position? No one strict presses from a rack position. Unless you have scissor-lift-triceps.
Yeah that's why I'm not clear on if the press needs to touch the shoulders/how it has to be in the front rack. It would seem as long as it comes down to shoulder height, it doesn't matter what position the weight is in - what's the point of calling it shoulder to overhead then? (Which would insinuate that you can use any method to get it from shoulder height to fully extended over your head)

I saw you explained (i think) in the other thread what I harp on in terms of how your elbows should be pointed down when pressing. (At least I think that's what you were getting at - but it was difficult to picture if that's what you meant or if I was just filling in the blanks because that's what my gf and I preach)
totalburnout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2013, 03:40 PM   #4037
SCGT
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 34644
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Phoenix AZ
Vehicle:
2007 BMW 335i
Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neek View Post
That's why the movement is defined as "shoulders to overhead" in the standards. That way the movement is from racked across the shoulders to locked overhead. You are allowed to do them as a strict press, push press, or jerks if necessary
I figured I'd hear crickets until you answered, lol.

Very few people above about 240 can do a strict press with proper form while having the bar touch the shoulders. It results in shoulder rotation, not lowering, once you have a certain amount of mass. Just curious. APA strength sports dictates that the bar be below the chin (and motionless) to start. A strict press is very different than OLY lifting, hence the distinction. Interesting that you guys don't distinguish.
SCGT is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2013, 03:40 PM   #4038
totalburnout
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 72861
Join Date: Oct 2004
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: North Jersey
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neek View Post
That's why the movement is defined as "shoulders to overhead" in the standards. That way the movement is from racked across the shoulders to locked overhead. You are allowed to do them as a strict press, push press, or jerks if necessary
Racked or front racked?
totalburnout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2013, 03:50 PM   #4039
Tim K.
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 214
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Sumter, SC
Vehicle:
2014 Massey Ferguson
Red

Default

I doubt I can get the bar to touch my shoulders... Watching Vinny press 405 overhead, he had to pull the bar down in order to get it low enough before pressing it overhead.


Vinny is infinitely stronger than me but I do have slightly better shoulder mobility than him.
Tim K. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2013, 03:55 PM   #4040
SCGT
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 34644
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Phoenix AZ
Vehicle:
2007 BMW 335i
Silver

Default

Vincent (he prefers it to Vinny) is a ridiculous freak. He had the most influence on my pressing. Very very very strong, just brutally, incomprehensibly strong.
SCGT is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2013, 04:02 PM   #4041
Neek
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 3400
Join Date: Jan 2001
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Vehicle:
2013 Gojira
2007 Triumph Speed Triple

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCGT View Post
I figured I'd hear crickets until you answered, lol.

Very few people above about 240 can do a strict press with proper form while having the bar touch the shoulders. It results in shoulder rotation, not lowering, once you have a certain amount of mass. Just curious. APA strength sports dictates that the bar be below the chin (and motionless) to start. A strict press is very different than OLY lifting, hence the distinction. Interesting that you guys don't distinguish.
The thing that you have to remember about CrossFit is that most of the time within a few basic parameters, it is about getting the work done, and less so about what technique you use. For pullups, it starts hanging dead hang and ends chin above bar. If you go strict, that's fine, if you kip or butterfly that's fine (plus faster and more efficient). Ground to overhead is just that. Get the bar locked out overhead starting on the ground. A snatch is the quickest, but also the most technical. A clean and jerk/press could also be used. Or even a deadlift, hang clean, jerk if you wanted. Remember this all applies to competition. A display of fitness, rather than building your fitness, much as a display of strength is clearly different from building strength.
Neek is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2013, 04:04 PM   #4042
totalburnout
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 72861
Join Date: Oct 2004
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: North Jersey
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim K. View Post
I doubt I can get the bar to touch my shoulders... Watching Vinny press 405 overhead, he had to pull the bar down in order to get it low enough before pressing it overhead.

Video Link: http://youtu.be/VzjxDJslfqo

Vinny is infinitely stronger than me but I do have slightly better shoulder mobility than him.
Freakish.

He reps At Large Nutrition. I've followed Chris Mason over there for 10 years and have bought their supplements off and on during that time. Pretty cool.
totalburnout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2013, 04:05 PM   #4043
Neek
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 3400
Join Date: Jan 2001
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Vehicle:
2013 Gojira
2007 Triumph Speed Triple

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by totalburnout View Post
Racked or front racked?
I think they specified in the rules that behind the neck was out.
Neek is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2013, 04:12 PM   #4044
SCGT
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 34644
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Phoenix AZ
Vehicle:
2007 BMW 335i
Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by totalburnout View Post
Yeah that's why I'm not clear on if the press needs to touch the shoulders/how it has to be in the front rack. It would seem as long as it comes down to shoulder height, it doesn't matter what position the weight is in - what's the point of calling it shoulder to overhead then? (Which would insinuate that you can use any method to get it from shoulder height to fully extended over your head)

I saw you explained (i think) in the other thread what I harp on in terms of how your elbows should be pointed down when pressing. (At least I think that's what you were getting at - but it was difficult to picture if that's what you meant or if I was just filling in the blanks because that's what my gf and I preach)
Yep, spot on. It seems to me that there are a few issues. If you want to press, and do so appropriately, then the rules should be changed/clarified. That said, crossfit is not about strict pressing (typically). So I understand that they write the rules for what is most common. Certainly were I to be competing in some form of speed based competition, I would most likely push press, unless the weight was so light that I would lose time by utilizing leg drive.
SCGT is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2013, 04:12 PM   #4045
totalburnout
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 72861
Join Date: Oct 2004
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: North Jersey
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neek View Post

I think they specified in the rules that behind the neck was out.
I just meant that a front rack is a lot different than racking the bar across your chest.

I wouldn't want to be in a front rack for any press but a thruster.

Pressing out of a front rack (a good front rack, where your elbows are parallel to the floor) just doesn't work real efficiently.

Basically my point is, and I haven't rewatched the video, if they're busting this guys balls for not being in a front rack or touching his shoulders - that's stupid. If he brings it down past his chin to shoulder height, that should be a clean rep. Whether he does that or not, is a different story.
totalburnout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2013, 04:17 PM   #4046
Neek
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 3400
Join Date: Jan 2001
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Vehicle:
2013 Gojira
2007 Triumph Speed Triple

Default

I'm pretty sure Josh Golden's problem was on lack of opening his hips on the box jumps primarily. I didn't have a problem with his presses, other than the snatch he did.
Neek is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2013, 04:35 PM   #4047
Tim K.
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 214
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Sumter, SC
Vehicle:
2014 Massey Ferguson
Red

Default

Hell, watching the video through he still comes close to around 300 reps. Its a competition. You push the boundaries. He just pushed a little too hard.
Tim K. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2013, 04:57 PM   #4048
redobs
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 1501
Join Date: May 2000
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Nashua, NH
Vehicle:
2009 WRX wagon
Dark grey

Default

redobs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2013, 04:57 PM   #4049
totalburnout
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 72861
Join Date: Oct 2004
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: North Jersey
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neek View Post
I'm pretty sure Josh Golden's problem was on lack of opening his hips on the box jumps primarily. I didn't have a problem with his presses, other than the snatch he did.
That I can agree with
totalburnout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2013, 05:10 PM   #4050
delongedoug
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 124113
Join Date: Aug 2006
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: To infinity
Vehicle:
and beyond!

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by redobs View Post
Good read.
delongedoug is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The CrossFit thread Gerkins31 Off-Topic 59 02-14-2013 09:36 PM
Crossfit, Schmossfit. fatalfitness.com poison Off-Topic 12 07-11-2008 06:32 PM
OMG...workout folk: crossfit kicked my butt today -=C=- Off-Topic 37 05-14-2008 09:21 PM
Anyone here Crossfit? blitzpb Southern California Impreza Club Forum -- SCIC 12 10-31-2006 07:49 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.