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Old 06-12-2009, 07:57 AM   #1
Paisan
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At the Track NASA-PDA HPDE/Race @ NJMP, June 19-21

Anyone planning on attending the HPDE event at NJ Motorsports Park June 19-21? Great opportunity to get your car on track and learn to drive at speed or hone your skills if you are an experienced track rat.



I'll be there with my Legacy GT Wagon. Hope to see some fellow Subies out there!



http://www.pdadrivingschool.com/registration.php



-mike
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Old 06-12-2009, 08:49 AM   #2
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i'll be there mike. i will be there on friday to register but i am only signed up for saturday, I couldn't justify the cost of 2 days to the wife, lol. I never made it to NJMP last year so this will be my first time. go easy on me.
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Old 06-12-2009, 09:15 AM   #3
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Cool, first time at lightning for me too!

Mike
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Old 06-12-2009, 10:20 AM   #4
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Still blown away by the cost of NASA these days...
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Old 06-12-2009, 10:26 AM   #5
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Its more track specific. NJMP charges a lot. Also depends on the level of instruction/safety you want or need.

Mike
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Old 06-12-2009, 10:38 AM   #6
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Its more track specific. NJMP charges a lot. Also depends on the level of instruction/safety you want or need.

Mike
Sorry, not buying it. I've run with 3 other groups at NJMP, inlcuding weekends, for under $170/day (some as cheap as $135/day). It's also not really track specific, look at the fees for Summit, Pocono, etc.

Level of safety? Same workers, same support vehicles. Tech is MORE INVOLVED with every other group I've run with compared to NASA. Level of instructors? Again, you're making assumptions there too. I'm sure there is some added benefit on some of those fronts due to the race-focused nature of NASA events. But on the other hand, not only are you paying more, you're getting less track time because of the racing. Is it just me, or do others worry that Nasa is supplementing the cost of racing with HPDE fees?

If I had to guess, I'd say NASA gets charged MORE because its technically a racing weekend with HPDE sprinkled in. So maybe they do have higher costs (costs clearly passed onto the DE'ers). Even so, the point remains the same: If you're not racing, there's not a real good reason to stick to NASA HPDE (with the exception of social aspects). I'll even qualify it further. If you're uninstructed and not racing, there is no reason to stick with NASA.

Used to be $380ish a weekend, and that was only a year or two ago. Don't get me wrong, I love NASA. Started with them, they do A LOT for the sport. But if it's the racing (and all signs point to that fact), than why aren't those costs passed onto the racers?! $500+ a weekend? You must be joking.

Last edited by REX8; 06-12-2009 at 10:59 AM.
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Old 06-12-2009, 10:59 AM   #7
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Well let's see. You can't compare njmp nasa pricing to pocono or summit pricing because njmp charges more. Racers get charged more and get less track time. Also nasa-ne usually provides 2 ambulances, so if one needs to leave with a driver, the track doesn't go cold. From what I know the costs are what drives the price up on nasa events. I think that NE has attempted to re-negotiate the contracts for the 2nd half of the season to help bring the costs down as well.

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Old 06-12-2009, 11:05 AM   #8
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[size=1]You can't compare njmp nasa pricing to pocono or summit pricing because njmp charges more.
Agreed, and I didn't. Weekends with other groups at NJMP are much cheaper than nasa. Further still, teh point I was making was that Pocono and Summit are STILL much more expensive with NASA. AKA, it's not the track, it's the group.

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[size=1]Also nasa-ne usually provides 2 ambulances, so if one needs to leave with a driver, the track doesn't go cold. From what I know the costs are what drives the price up on nasa events.

Mike
Which is a great idea. But again, that cannot be the reason. $150-200 MORE a weekend, per person, to pay for an extra ambulance? They cost $15k a day?

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[size=1] I think that NE has attempted to re-negotiate the contracts for the 2nd half of the season to help bring the costs down as well.

Mike
Which is great news. Nasa events are the most fun simply because of the diverstiy and the atmosphere. It would be nice to have them offer competitive prices as I'd love to come back.
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Old 06-12-2009, 11:22 AM   #9
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A couple of other things I noticed about nasane anyway. I'm not sure about njmp, but all the other events (maybe njmp also) include 2 or 3 nights of camping included at no charge. For folks who don't like to work on their own cars Charlie of Entropy Racing is at all the events and provides all kinds of mechanical services and usually can get pads on sat for folks who have cooked their brakes on saturday. Lastly to defend the racers, the group in nasane provide a huge bbq on sat night, and we aren't talking hot dogs and burgers. These guys bring steak, sausage, sangria, homemade wine, ribs, salads, beer, etc. They fire up the grills around 4 and cook til everyone is full. Never ask any hpders or anyone for $ for it either. Also in NASANE the timing ans scoring crew provides times for anyone with a tx, which I don't know if the other groups provide.

So like you said if you are in it for no frills and just pure $/min on track, it may be extra $ but in the whole picture its not a whole lot more.

Mike
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Old 06-12-2009, 11:24 AM   #10
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Also if you've been tracking a while and get certified to instruct with nasa, you run for free. So rex8 get certified .

Mike
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Old 06-13-2009, 07:46 AM   #11
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hey i didn't even have a transponder at the last event and I was told my time. NASA NE has been nothing but fantastic to me as I have advanced.
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Old 06-14-2009, 10:12 PM   #12
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Quote:
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Sorry, not buying it. I've run with 3 other groups at NJMP, inlcuding weekends, for under $170/day (some as cheap as $135/day). It's also not really track specific, look at the fees for Summit, Pocono, etc.

Level of safety? Same workers, same support vehicles. Tech is MORE INVOLVED with every other group I've run with compared to NASA. Level of instructors? Again, you're making assumptions there too. I'm sure there is some added benefit on some of those fronts due to the race-focused nature of NASA events. But on the other hand, not only are you paying more, you're getting less track time because of the racing. Is it just me, or do others worry that Nasa is supplementing the cost of racing with HPDE fees?

......
I have to agree with you on the NASA fees for the NJMP weekend. It's beyond what I want to pay for sure. I would rather do Hyperfest on the same weekend, but again, with all the racing, the HPDE driver inevitably lose track time with all the spills, wrecks & clean up needed from the racers. Lose one session with Nasa, and you have just TWO per day

Here's what I do like about NASA. Passing in the corners in group 3. Relatively higher level of awareness, skill and sharing the track by other drivers (NEVER get stuck in a train of cars in NASA HPDE). Get to watch some awesome racing when I'm not on the track. Good debriefing in the classroom between sessions. They still use the Summit Main circuit where so many HPDE groups have moved their (weekend) events to Shenandoah

I do find that when I go to a non-NASA event, the downtime is kind of boring with no races to watch. I'm on the fence whether to continue with them. However, if they are charging $450 per event, they make the decision easy.
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Old 06-14-2009, 10:51 PM   #13
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I would rather do Hyperfest on the same weekend, but again, with all the racing, the HPDE driver inevitably lose track time with all the spills, wrecks & clean up needed from the racers. Lose one session with Nasa, and you have just TWO per day
Not with NASA NE. I have been running with them since the end of 2007. first of all, you get 4 sessions. Secondly, I have seen multiple racer sessions get delayed because of some kind of wreck, and only the racers lost any track time. there is built-in buffer time on the schedule to handle delays, so one racer mishap won't cause any sessions to lose time. the only time i have seen HPDE drivers lose track time was when we had thick fog for the first couple hours of the scheduled day.

actually, the second day of watkins glen this year (no racing either day), we got 4 30-minute sessions, and the end of the day was open track for anyone that wanted it. it was more track time than most people could handle, and we ended up leaving a little early because no one was left on track.
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Old 06-16-2009, 01:20 AM   #14
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Sorry, not buying it. I've run with 3 other groups at NJMP, inlcuding weekends, for under $170/day (some as cheap as $135/day).
Please share! It would be nice to get that kind of track day price.
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Old 06-16-2009, 01:48 AM   #15
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i can't speak for all of NASA's cheaper competitors, but I do know that some don't give you in-car instruction for the whole day your first time on track. you may be comfortable with that, but are you comfortable with everyone else on track being out there for their first day with no one helping them at the end of the day? some provide no classroom instruction.

for me, it was a balance of the amount of instruction i got (and consequently, the other people i was on track with) and price...bmwcca and pca cost more last i checked, but i would feel very safe on track with guys worried about the price of their cars.
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Old 06-16-2009, 07:17 AM   #16
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Just about every group I've seen run at NJMp has been pretty expensive. Definitely more than Summit or Pocono, and even more than VIR. I too would like to know this magic group that runs for $175/day. Is this on a weekend?
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Old 06-16-2009, 07:18 AM   #17
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Oh, I'll be over on Thunder with TrackDaze Sat & Sun.
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Old 06-16-2009, 07:30 AM   #18
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Oh, I'll be over on Thunder with TrackDaze Sat & Sun.
Cool, I'll try to swing by the paddock. If you are interested in Dinner Sat night, there are a bunch of subie guys who do T&S with us and we either BBQ Sat night or do dinner.

My cell is 917.596.3354 give a ring!

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Old 06-16-2009, 08:31 AM   #19
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OK...just looked at the registatrion site, and that is pretty friggin expensive. Trackdaze on the same weekend, with more track time, on the longer Thunder course, is cheaper.
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Old 06-16-2009, 10:24 AM   #20
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Cool, I'll try to swing by the paddock. If you are interested in Dinner Sat night, there are a bunch of subie guys who do T&S with us and we either BBQ Sat night or do dinner.

My cell is 917.596.3354 give a ring!

-mike
I will definitley come on over. If my car doesn't hold up I might be over a lot, and maybe get a ride or 2.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1785502
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Old 06-16-2009, 11:31 AM   #21
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OK...just looked at the registatrion site, and that is pretty friggin expensive. Trackdaze on the same weekend, with more track time, on the longer Thunder course, is cheaper.
From what I'm hearing if they don't have 200 cars for the event, they'll be upside down on the event... So it won't likely happen again.

-mike
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Old 06-16-2009, 01:37 PM   #22
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They will cancel with that little notice? Doesnt seem very fair to the people that already entered and paid.
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Old 06-16-2009, 01:40 PM   #23
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Cool.. this is tempting. I might hop in.
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Old 06-16-2009, 01:40 PM   #24
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They will cancel with that little notice? Doesnt seem very fair to the people that already entered and paid.
No they won't cancel the event, but if they are upside down on the payments, they won't be running the event again at that price.

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Old 06-16-2009, 01:54 PM   #25
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They will cancel with that little notice? Doesnt seem very fair to the people that already entered and paid.
No we won't be cancelling.. Our event is doing very well...

In defense of NASA-NE, much of the higher cost is in fact due to NJMP being extremely expensive to run and event compared to Summit or event VIR...

That said, I don't know their business model and other costs... But at TD we are structured and operate to give our members and the best experience & track time value per $...

Sorry for posting in your thread... We don't normally do that, but felt with the incorrect talk/speculation of "cancellation" it was called for..

Last edited by 78 Rocco; 06-16-2009 at 02:00 PM.
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