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View Poll Results: Do you like the Current Format for the Motorsports Forum????
Yes...I love it....should have been done along time ago 16 15.24%
No...Absolutely hate it...Bring Back the "old" format 68 64.76%
Well...if I were in charge..I would change a few things....(Submit suggestions) 12 11.43%
What??? something changed...Meh...who cares... 9 8.57%
Voters: 105. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-12-2009, 12:05 PM   #1
Scooby South
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At the Track MOTORSPORTS forum Setup Poll

OK..we (us Lying Mods) and Nick have evaluated the new setup for the last 2 months and some of what you guys say is justified...some of it is not...We are going to do a one WEEK poll to figure this out once and for all....If you like the current setup...you don't...Recommended changes??? its all out there for you to make CONSTRUCTIVE comments on....Nick has read the "so it got shot down thread" and we as a collective group are putting it out for member vote again..This poll will stay open for one week...and the results of it will be what is done for the future of the motorsports forum...

thank you for listening....VOTE ....OBTW..this in NOT a bitch fest....only constructive suggestions will be entertained....not criticism so leave the sarcasm for OT...

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Old 06-12-2009, 12:13 PM   #2
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It blows more goats then a lying and cheating Bill My vote put in for option 2
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Old 06-12-2009, 12:13 PM   #3
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I would like to see a car construction forum, could be for all the types of cars but just a place for just car building questions and comments.
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Old 06-12-2009, 12:25 PM   #4
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Can we please get an honest and thorough (if required) explanation as to why these changes were made in the first place?

I have a strong opinion - I like the new layout - but I'd like to hear from the moderators who were instrumental in the change.

I'm not asking you to defend any accusations, or address any statements made after the change took place. I'm interested in the reasons why the change was made in the first place.

I can't imagine that the Motorsports forum was completely redesigned for no reason whatsoever.

Thank you.

Last edited by urabus555; 06-12-2009 at 01:09 PM.
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Old 06-12-2009, 12:50 PM   #5
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I have no issues with it, other than the fact that stickies (i.e. each F1 race) need to be updated more frequently.
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Old 06-12-2009, 12:54 PM   #6
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Motorsports was never super active, now it feels dead. Too many subforums IMO.
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Old 06-12-2009, 01:03 PM   #7
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Any setup requiring me to guess (or visit multiple areas) to find relevant threads is not user friendly.

For example, suspension component and setup discussion carries over to all types of motorsport, even if there are different requirements (autox vs road racing vs rally).

It makes more sense to me to have technical categories instead of those based on discipline:
Engine (& management)
Drivetrain/transmission
Suspension
Wheels & Tires
Everything else

Same goes for non-technical discussion categories:
Suby-realated competition
Other motorsports (F1, etc.)
Racing-related classifieds
Releases

.02
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Old 06-12-2009, 01:06 PM   #8
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I like the old setup, this just takes getting used to.

Maybe the categories could be divided better but whatevs.

What are the priorities for the change?
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Old 06-12-2009, 01:28 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urabus555 View Post
Can we please get an honest and thorough (if required) explanation as to why these changes were made in the first place?

I have a strong opinion - I like the new layout - but I'd like to hear from the moderators who were instrumental in the change.

I'm not asking you to defend any accusations, or address any statements made after the change took place. I'm interested in the reasons why the change was made in the first place.

I can't imagine that the Motorsports forum was completely redesigned for no reason whatsoever.

Thank you.
Fair enough...I am the one the initiated this...I redid the format...I did the research...all the initial data collection...The way it was before, it was hard to read....Most people at the time, agreed, with a few people that didn't like the proposed change...The amount of threads...the number of people traveling thru the forum....justified a change...it was submitted to the higher up...dicussed...and then implemented with a few tweaks that Nick added...I would not consider this a failure...it did what it was supposed to do..which was seperate all the traffic in their prospective motorsports...
which it accomplished...this was not meant to deter people from visiting motorsports...it was meant to be able to manage the forum easier, esp the stickies ....it was becoming a management nightmare...so for that it was great...low maintenance....Motorsports is my favorite forum on here and I wanted to make it better.....its informative....little to no drama....and in general, People know what they are talking about..
I will take full responsibility for this..however...it did what it was designed to do...i just did not account for the "personal" factor...for that, I appologize...

Bill
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Old 06-12-2009, 02:03 PM   #10
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Here's my opinion, but you may not like it as it's a copy from another site.

Do pretty much exactly what http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/ has. Two motorsports sections. Tracksday, club racing and other amateur stuff, and one Pro Racing category. Seems to work perfect over there.
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Old 06-12-2009, 02:24 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby South View Post
Fair enough...I am the one the initiated this...I redid the format...I did the research...all the initial data collection...The way it was before, it was hard to read....Most people at the time, agreed, with a few people that didn't like the proposed change...The amount of threads...the number of people traveling thru the forum....justified a change...it was submitted to the higher up...dicussed...and then implemented with a few tweaks that Nick added...I would not consider this a failure...it did what it was supposed to do..which was seperate all the traffic in their prospective motorsports...
which it accomplished...this was not meant to deter people from visiting motorsports...it was meant to be able to manage the forum easier, esp the stickies ....it was becoming a management nightmare...so for that it was great...low maintenance....Motorsports is my favorite forum on here and I wanted to make it better.....its informative....little to no drama....and in general, People know what they are talking about..
I will take full responsibility for this..however...it did what it was designed to do...i just did not account for the "personal" factor...for that, I appologize...

Bill
Thanks Bill.

I have to say, personally, the change was a bit hard to deal with at first. But, now that I'm used to it, I'm using the new format to my advantage. For instance, if I only have 5-10 minutes of free time I just open the Rall/RallyX forum (my personal favorite). If I have a bit more time, I'm off to the Track/HPDE/Hillclimb section. If I have lots of time I can go through the rest of the sub-forums.

I'm sure NASIOC will continue to grow, some form of subdivision will be 100% needed at some point. This seems like a good foundation for the future.

When it comes down to it though, I'm a Rally Guy at heart. It's nice to be able to filter down to the individual theme.
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Old 06-12-2009, 02:38 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blue blurr View Post
Do pretty much exactly what http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/ has.
This example is very similair to what we allready have. In the "Track, Auto-X & Drag Racing" forum, you can find a set of sub-forums; one for Track Car Builds, Drag Racing, and Drifting.

Maybe others can chime in here, but I'm glad (in the Rally/RallyX sub-forum) that Professional as well as GrassRoots teams are free to post in the same place. I find that there are benefits to both parties...

Last edited by urabus555; 06-12-2009 at 02:43 PM.
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Old 06-12-2009, 03:30 PM   #13
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I think that the new format has basically killed the Motorsports section as we know it. Look how far the number of new threads has fallen. If I had to start a new thread, I'd have no idea where to start it. That would likely lead to me giving up and starting the thread on a different forum.

There was never enough traffic and threads to justify a split. NA Powertrain was busier than Mosports. Noobs+FAQ was busier than Mosports. Built Motor was busier than Mosports. Suspension and Brakes was busier than Mosports could ever have dreamed of being.

If, for some crazy reason, you think there has to be a split, make two and only two subforums: Racing I Watch and Racing I Do. One forum to talk about WRC, F1, IRL, ITR, BTCC, ALMS, etc. One forum to talk about RX, AX, trackdays, anything that we're actually doing ourselves.
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Old 06-12-2009, 03:35 PM   #14
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Voted to go back to the old. This isn't the Beemer forums or the SCCA forums. Never did this forum move fast enough to need all the sub categories.
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Old 06-12-2009, 04:14 PM   #15
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Im not a regular here, but here are my thoughts. Sub-forums are great, if you need them. My impression is that this forum doesnt need it because i dont see tons of threads being posted on a daily bassis with varying types of info/questions. Therefore, i think you guys have way too many sub-forums here. As trivial as this may sound, everything gets spread out way too far apart.
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Old 06-12-2009, 05:26 PM   #16
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Bill -

Thanks for taking the time to listen. I think the issue with the current format is that it is just too granular for the amount of traffic, which inhibits reading of potentially interesting threads in another sub-forum. For instance, I've been rallying since 1998 and doing it professionally since 2003 with two different manufacturers. 75% of my posts are probably only of interest to rally people, but the rest are broader in scope, for instance clubman vs. pro racing, racing equipment and safety gear, getting and keeping sponsors.

I used to visit the forum almost daily and would read lots of threads. Now I only visit Rally/Rallyx and the low level of traffic makes that less interesting. Additionally, I used to engage in interesting (to me at least) discussions with trhoppe, tom@kartboy and others about the business of motorsports. With the new Balkanization, that's stopped.

I think watching (F1, Nascar, MotoGP) vs. participating (Rally America, SCCA Solo) would be a sufficient split. A specific classifieds forum could be warranted too. Again, thanks for listening. I've been a member since before the split and I've really enjoyed the conversations here.

Christian
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Old 06-12-2009, 06:18 PM   #17
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Thank you for bringing this up. Seriously, if you had just said kept us up to speed of the situation I would have been a lot less annoyed.

I can understand wanting to have it split up, but I don't believe the forum is big enough for it. The F1 thread has gone down in participation a lot because of it. Without the "super stickies" which were never used, and with a few stickies for the current WRC/F1 race, autox FAQ and maybe one more (no more than 5 stickies) it would be a lot less cluttered.
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Old 06-12-2009, 06:38 PM   #18
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Thanks for giving us the background on how this all came to be; it takes away some of the "idiot mods screwed us for no reason" angle .

Anyway, I was a big fan of having all the threads together because I would get into things I wouldn't seek out. Something would catch my eye and sound interesting so I'd read it and maybe end up contributing/commenting/whatever. It was great. I was a regular for the pro racing discussions, but the all-in-one format broadened my horizons.
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Old 06-13-2009, 10:51 AM   #19
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NASIOC does need to be restructured... but not the Motorsports forum.

If anything, we need some '08+ Impreza specific forums in the Technical areas and a Motorsports For Sale forum. We don't need NASIOC Motorsports to be partitioned. I can get partitioned motorsports forums on another site.
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Old 06-13-2009, 09:02 PM   #20
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A lot of things posted in autocross, rally and track overlap, they should be in the same section.

Any racing on TV should be a separate section.
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Old 06-15-2009, 10:17 AM   #21
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I've always campaigned for "I watch" v. "I do" split. For me I have no desire to read about F1, NASCAR, etc. I rather read about people out there rallying (even though I'm not a fan of rally), road race, autox, etc. The real people doing is what I like to get to quickly. Seeing a ton of "I was watching a bunch of ubber rich folks race" doesn't do it for me. So to have them lumped into a seperate forum is how I personally would like to see it.

-mike
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Old 06-15-2009, 11:37 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mla163 View Post
A lot of things posted in autocross, rally and track overlap, they should be in the same section.

Any racing on TV should be a separate section.
For the people that keep saying this... I ask: "like what"?

I say that's not true. Setting up for a track is much different from setting up for auto-x and much different than setting up for rally.

To start off, the rules are completely different between all three. You're going to approach setting up a car based on the rules available (or should be in the very least) not building a car and then saying "What discipline does it work best in?"

Susupension setup/parts are different between all three, not to mention the rules. Sure, there are suspensions that work for Track & auto-x, but the valving, settings, springrate, etc... are going to be (or should be) different for optimum benefit of each.
Alignments are quite different between all three.
Power? (See class rules, but approach to power is different also in all three).
Transmission/differentials? Different.
Tires? This is where the similarity may be between track and auto-x, but what's good for one isn't necessarily good for the other.

Similar items:
What's the best XYZ?
I have a 7" wheel, what's the widest tire?
Will XYZ part from ABC car fit?
Etc...

Generic questions should, and can, asked in the main forum. But keep in mind, this is a motorsports section, be prepared to be asked 'what sport, sport?'

So really... what's shared? IMHO... not much at all. You want to read about it? Go into that forum.

As far as the other stuff, F1, WRC, etc... maybe another forum off of 'root' for 'Professional Motorsports' where one talks about and reviews the sports that are watched (I don't watch, nor follow much of any motorsport other than rally), and then this forum can be 'Ameteur Motorsports' where people talk about their participation in and results thereof?

IMHO, my vote is to keep it the way it is.

--kC
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Old 06-15-2009, 11:43 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC View Post
For the people that keep saying this... I ask: "like what"?

I say that's not true. Setting up for a track is much different from setting up for auto-x and much different than setting up for rally.

To start off, the rules are completely different between all three. You're going to approach setting up a car based on the rules available (or should be in the very least) not building a car and then saying "What discipline does it work best in?"

Susupension setup/parts are different between all three, not to mention the rules. Sure, there are suspensions that work for Track & auto-x, but the valving, settings, springrate, etc... are going to be (or should be) different for optimum benefit of each.
Alignments are quite different between all three.
Power? (See class rules, but approach to power is different also in all three).
Transmission/differentials? Different.
Tires? This is where the similarity may be between track and auto-x, but what's good for one isn't necessarily good for the other.

Similar items:
What's the best XYZ?
I have a 7" wheel, what's the widest tire?
Will XYZ part from ABC car fit?
Etc...

Generic questions should, and can, asked in the main forum. But keep in mind, this is a motorsports section, be prepared to be asked 'what sport, sport?'

So really... what's shared? IMHO... not much at all. You want to read about it? Go into that forum.

As far as the other stuff, F1, WRC, etc... maybe another forum off of 'root' for 'Professional Motorsports' where one talks about and reviews the sports that are watched (I don't watch, nor follow much of any motorsport other than rally), and then this forum can be 'Ameteur Motorsports' where people talk about their participation in and results thereof?

IMHO, my vote is to keep it the way it is.

--kC
I agree KC.

-mike
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Old 06-15-2009, 11:49 AM   #24
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Case in point: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1785308

A "what's best" thread for "both auto-x and track". Makes me cringe everytime I see one. It shows you have someone that's lazy and doesn't want to do the reasearch. Research requires thought, planning and nowadays *CLICKING*. This forum isn't just for entertainment, it's for edumication. You can't learn if all you do snipe into a forum, ask a super generic question, and expect a well thought out answer that isn't 'do a search'.

IMHO, just like the mods 'are lazy', I contend those looking to have all their info only in one forum should look in the mirror.

---kC
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Old 06-15-2009, 01:01 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC View Post
Case in point: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1785308

A "what's best" thread for "both auto-x and track". Makes me cringe everytime I see one. It shows you have someone that's lazy and doesn't want to do the reasearch. Research requires thought, planning and nowadays *CLICKING*. This forum isn't just for entertainment, it's for edumication. You can't learn if all you do snipe into a forum, ask a super generic question, and expect a well thought out answer that isn't 'do a search'.

IMHO, just like the mods 'are lazy', I contend those looking to have all their info only in one forum should look in the mirror.

---kC

Counter point to that, what's wrong with having a convenient method of entertainment? Maybe you don't find watching to be fun, but racing as entertainment isn't an uncommon concept. I don't come to motorsports for answers to specific questions. I come to browse and pass time. Today, the only two threads were one complaining about the change, and this one with the pole. That is not entertaining.

I don't even know where my sport of choice would fit in with this new format were I to even think about posting a thread. Maybe it would go in Drag Racing (straight line), but for some I'd have to enter an open road race to get to it. What then? I also work the local national rally every year. I have friends that auto-x like it's a religion, and could learn things by reading here. I liked being able to see what other people were doing with amateur stuff that I'd never see otherwise. I have varied interests, and enjoyed looking at everything. Now it's just frustrating. \

The one forum I thought would be useful, "For Sale", doesn't have a single thread in it. Maybe no one makes it that far, since it's on the end? Really, I think it's just because people have been indoctrinated for so long not to do for sale threads here.

I'm still subscribed to the main F1 thread and the motorsports forum. I suppose I could subscribe to all the sub forums, but my user cp page is already cluttered with 11 forums. Adding another 6, just for motorsports, would be annoying given the number of posts that flow through them compared to other subscribed forums. They would wind up at the top, and push all the forums I click regularly off the visible page.

Originally, I said keep the "For Sale" forum. I've never liked for sale threads unless I needed one, and I've never found anything in super long multi-sale threads that wasn't already sold by the time I read through the first 100 posts. Each sale having it's own thread life leads to outdated sales falling away. With a subforum, it's easy to see what's still alive. Classified sub-forums have been useful in other forums, but I give up. Just put it back the way it was.
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