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Old 06-21-2009, 10:55 AM   #1
IMPORTEDCARS
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Default Free Dyno Session See Inside..

Hello everyone, I am not here to start any Drama or problems. Lately we have had some shops in the Tri-State with Adjustable Dyno's such as (Dyno Dynamics, Mustang Dyno, Mahi Dyno and the Dyno Pack) that are being unethical.

Customers have come to my facility to dyno there vehicles and the horsepower numbers that is given buy our Dynojet id quite lower than these above mentioned Adjustable dyno's. This very unethical to change correction factors to mentally challenge and extract $$$ from customers. I see this mostly in the Subaru - EVO Community.

I have also seen customers that leave the Dynojet and go to the above mentioned dyno's The dyno operator makes his adjustment so that the power level reads lower to stir up complications and mentally challenge the customer into another tune -$$$


I am offering Free dyno's on my dynojet to those people that have been on an adjustable dyno and are curious to se what kind of power they REALLY make on an un adjustable Dyno THE DYNOJET... I am truly tired of these competitors stating Oh.. this number or correction factor is a Dynojet number... -BS

I have nothing to gain here, I am only trying to help the community by offering Free dyno comparisons, you must do the following.

Email me directly GeorgeKakaletris@gmail.com

Set up an appointment

Bring down your Dyno sheet for comparison.

Thank you or listening.

-George Kakaletris
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Old 06-21-2009, 11:18 AM   #2
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I can't wait to see where this goes. If there are shops that have dyno's reading higher than yours, I'm not sure what to say. Nothing like 500+ WHP FP Green's on your dyno - http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...ight=dynoflash - and 360WHP/450WTQ VF39/43's - http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...ight=dynoflash. . Right. Not high reading at all. Although not your intention, the drama shall begin.
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Old 06-21-2009, 11:19 AM   #3
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Interested to see results, post em up when you guys get done....
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Old 06-21-2009, 11:24 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by squashman View Post

I can't wait to see where this goes. If there are shops that have dyno's reading higher than yours, I'm not sure what to say. Nothing like 500+ WHP FP Green's on your dyno - http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...ight=dynoflash - and 360WHP/450WTQ VF39/43's - http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...ight=dynoflash. . Right. Not high reading at all. Although not your intention, the drama shall begin.
Both of those care where tuned on Aquamist and on a good amount of boost. The vehicle with the Green had a set of cams, good hardware and a decent amount of boost.

There should not be any drama just bring down the car, no more no less the owner can sit in the car to monitor boost. Drive right on the dyno right off the street.. Don't forget to bring your Dyno Sheet..

-George Kakaletris
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Old 06-21-2009, 11:28 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Kastley85891 View Post
Interested to see results, post em up when you guys get done....
I can predict what is going to happen. Those who tune on an adjustable dyno will say the following... (Take it to the track the MPH does not lie)

I am here only to compare results to those who are interested. This is basically a waste of my time do the the amount of work load I have.. But def worth it to those customers who may have been misled.

-George Kakaletris
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Old 06-21-2009, 11:36 AM   #6
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You guys are exceedingly entertaining but it seems like literally every car that runs through your shop makes 450whp yet none of them really seem to run a number or at least post about it..
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Old 06-21-2009, 11:41 AM   #7
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You guys are exceedingly entertaining but it seems like literally every car that runs through your shop makes 450whp yet none of them really seem to run a number or at least post about it..
Our customers are not our personal Nut Huggers. Al tune them we don't marry them or make love to them we don't manipulate them. I occasionally call to check up to see if they are satisfied with the tune. No more no less.

-George Kakaletris
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Old 06-21-2009, 11:43 AM   #8
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that's unfortunate. People give you 500$ for a tune and you guys don't even tickle their balls?
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Old 06-21-2009, 11:49 AM   #9
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that's unfortunate. People give you 500$ for a tune and you guys don't even tickle their balls?
Well I def go out of my way to make sure the customer is pleased and comfortable while he visits my facility. But I can't really say I scratch his balls. I do go out with the customer on the final test drive to answer and question and assure he is content and pleased with his tune.


-George Kakaletris
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Old 06-21-2009, 12:14 PM   #10
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Aren't dyno's just for a comparison in tuning - meaning if you make a change it will give you a solid increase or loss for that change? I mean I could care less what my 18g makes on the dyno as my 1/8th mile trap is as fast or faster than some 2.5L FP Greens.

I think dyno's have one purpose and one only - tuning timing after that they are just a number that truly has no relevance.

You do realize that, you can adjust your dyno "down" for these tests to make it look better on your part right? How do we know your not doing that?

I'm not trying to pick on anyone, I'm just making a reference to how I feel. If you want to do this dyno a stock STI and Stock WRX (2.0 and 2.5) and post up the results uncorrected - if your going to post up your dyno tunes of anyones car - post them UNCORRECTED...

That is going to be your best comparison...
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Old 06-21-2009, 12:22 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by JSarv View Post
Aren't dyno's just for a comparison in tuning - meaning if you make a change it will give you a solid increase or loss for that change? I mean I could care less what my 18g makes on the dyno as my 1/8th mile trap is as fast or faster than some 2.5L FP Greens.

I think dyno's have one purpose and one only - tuning timing after that they are just a number that truly has no relevance.

You do realize that, you can adjust your dyno "down" for these tests to make it look better on your part right? How do we know your not doing that?

I'm not trying to pick on anyone, I'm just making a reference to how I feel. If you want to do this dyno a stock STI and Stock WRX (2.0 and 2.5) and post up the results uncorrected - if your going to post up your dyno tunes of anyones car - post them UNCORRECTED...

That is going to be your best comparison...
The Dynojet cannot be adjusted. I cannot type in a desired correct factor manually. Uncorrected is always 1.0 correction SAE mode is .95 - .98 depending on the weather. A stock STI will make anywhere from 248whp -260whp. On the average I have seen solid 250's

Al always posts them uncorrected, which is a 1.0 correction factor.

-George Kakaletris
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Old 06-21-2009, 02:17 PM   #12
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ill have to say a stock sti do put down about 250whp's.every say its around 230 but if you do the math....weight of vehicle+drivetrain.....it it will tell you the power needed to run a 13.3 to a 13.7 <what most sti runs stock...... it will come out to 260-270 depending on elevation........so a dyno that reads a stock sti around 250 is more accurate than a dyno that reads a stock sti around 230 or 215..like most people like saying.........
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Old 06-21-2009, 02:48 PM   #13
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hey george why don't you just have another dyno day i had a blast both times i went and it was quite interesting to see what other people put down with their setups
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Old 06-21-2009, 03:00 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Headstart101 View Post
ill have to say a stock sti do put down about 250whp's.every say its around 230 but if you do the math....weight of vehicle+drivetrain.....it it will tell you the power needed to run a 13.3 to a 13.7 <what most sti runs stock...... it will come out to 260-270 depending on elevation........so a dyno that reads a stock sti around 250 is more accurate than a dyno that reads a stock sti around 230 or 215..like most people like saying.........
That is all estimation, and while I see where you're coming from, by no means does that mean their dyno's more accurate than any other. There's no way to prove that to begin with, and this definitely doesn't prove it either.
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Old 06-21-2009, 03:00 PM   #15
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hey george why don't you just have another dyno day i had a blast both times i went and it was quite interesting to see what other people put down with their setups
I will send you a Private Message this week regarding the dyno day. Could I personally leave you in charge of the dyno day?

I have lots going on right now with the expansion of a 3 rd facility.

Thank you

-George Kakaletris
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Old 06-21-2009, 03:07 PM   #16
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yeah sounds good id be happy to take on that responsibility. drop me a pm this week and let me know when you think it would best to have it and i'll post up a thread in the tristate forum and i'll try to get a list together of whose going.

Last edited by RedRex26; 06-21-2009 at 04:02 PM.
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Old 06-21-2009, 03:40 PM   #17
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All dynos are adjustable. I have been using the dynojet since 1996. ALL of them can be adjusted.

people are not going to play fair for the most part. Numbers sell and the misinformed public just cares about what the dyno says.

This reminds me of a shop I was tuning at. I made a few pulls on the dyno and was shocked at how high it read.. I walked over and started looking through the software setup on the dyno computer.. Hmmm.. 10,000 ft altitude? I could see the ocean.



Clark
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Old 06-21-2009, 03:43 PM   #18
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At any rate - A dyno's numbers are for comparison of the car itself - not to other cars - who cares?

I can my airboys spreadsheet read 400+whp on my car - but done right - its in the mid 350's...

I could care less if its accurate - as I use it for comparison to changes...

What do cars that trap 121-122mph make on your dyno?


-Jerod
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Old 06-21-2009, 03:48 PM   #19
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All dynos are adjustable. I have been using the dynojet since 1996. ALL of them can be adjusted.

people are not going to play fair for the most part. Numbers sell and the misinformed public just cares about what the dyno says.

This reminds me of a shop I was tuning at. I made a few pulls on the dyno and was shocked at how high it read.. I walked over and started looking through the software setup on the dyno computer.. Hmmm.. 10,000 ft altitude? I could see the ocean.



Clark

Prove it that you can adjust a dynojet... All the run conditions are on the bottom of the dyno sheet.

-George Kakaletris
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Old 06-21-2009, 03:51 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSarv View Post
At any rate - A dyno's numbers are for comparison of the car itself - not to other cars - who cares?

I can my airboys spreadsheet read 400+whp on my car - but done right - its in the mid 350's...

I could care less if its accurate - as I use it for comparison to changes...

What do cars that trap 121-122mph make on your dyno?


-Jerod
Almost everyone of your posts is a blatant attempt for you to brag about your car and setup. While I agree with many of your points, why must you bring your power #'s into everything and how your car is faster that 2.5L Green'd cars?

ICS definetely seems to have one of the higher reading dynos in the area. Then again Dynojets typically ready higher than most. I've already seen a car run on their dynojet, and then on another local Dynodynamics the same week. Difference was over 30whp... The facility is nice though, and from everything I've heard George is a stand up guy.
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Old 06-21-2009, 04:00 PM   #21
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Almost everyone of your posts is a blatant attempt for you to brag about your car and setup. While I agree with many of your points, why must you bring your power #'s into everything and how your car is faster that 2.5L Green'd cars?

ICS definetely seems to have one of the higher reading dynos in the area. Then again Dynojets typically ready higher than most. I've already seen a car run on their dynojet, and then on another local Dynodynamics the same week. Difference was over 30whp... The facility is nice though, and from everything I've heard George is a stand up guy.
Thank you for the kind words. The Subaru - EVO tuning scene is a hobby to me. We specialize in many high end multi magazine cover vehicles.

I have known Al for quite some time. He is def a character at times. Al does a fantastic job tuning these Subaru and EVO's. He def takes his time though. I do not rush him whatsoever. however in the end result when he hands over the keys to FINALIZED product it's def superb.

If anyone here on Nasioc is not happy with our services or have any questions regarding the tune or how you where treated.. please feel free to contact me directly. GeorgeKakaletris@gmail.com

I believe and strive in great customer service. It is very important to know whether the customer is satisfied or not.

Thank you

-George Kakaletris
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Old 06-21-2009, 04:05 PM   #22
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Temp probe is a common one on a dynojet. Weather and altitude is another. You can also go into the interface box and adjust it outright. You can also edit the dyno softwares files on the hard drive. Finally, you can remove the roller weights which one shop on here HAS DONE as I have seen it with my own eyes. Lighter rollers, More power.

If you open the run with the downloaded graph viewer software, You can stretch the run out horizontal to make it look real wide and use the smoothing feature to take out dips and bumps. THen finally just dont show the corrections. Ever wonder why you almost never see dynojet plots in the normal format on the internet? You almost always see them in the wide graph viewer format.

Classic example of using the graph view to stretch out the graph: (this is just a random graph pulled of google)



Normal graph as the dyno outputs it after a run



Anyways, George.. I am not in any way stating that you are altering the dyno.. I am just clearing up the matter of can it be done.. Yes..

I know it is being done.. I travel all around and see shops and peoples actions all the time.. And its sad but it will NEVER stop. It puts money in peoples pockets. At some point the general public will start to understand that VF turbos cant make 360whp. Especialy on pump gas.

I can tell you are as frusterated as I am with these shops playing DYNO GAMES.

Happy fathers day to all! Gotta get back to work!

Cya



Clark
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Old 06-21-2009, 04:09 PM   #23
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^^ Because its fun? I'm sure hes a decent guy but thats not the point of the thread.

I would love to know what cars trapping 120-122mph make on his dyno..

Traps speeds + ok to good driver never lie..

-jerod

And as far as shops messing with dyno's I have a good story on that - 01 GSXR 1000 - stopped by a local Yamaha shop for a dyno day - made 145whp (was tuned on the same brand of dyno 400 miles away in the middle of summer at 169whp) - oddly enough R1's were making 20-25 more whp than me... Was a rented dyno...

2 weeks later the local Harley shop had rented it to do some tuning - I stopped in and asked the guy if he would throw my bike on real quick and if he had some free time - luckily he did... What do ya know 168whp...

^^ Yamaha shop was altering all brands of bikes other than Yamaha's for a selling point - I didn't take not of correction but both dynos involved were dynojets...

That ^ Is why dyno's are pointless..

Last edited by JSarv; 06-21-2009 at 04:14 PM.
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Old 06-21-2009, 04:12 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Clark Turner View Post
Temp probe is a common one on a dynojet. Weather and altitude is another. You can also go into the interface box and adjust it outright. You can also edit the dyno softwares files on the hard drive. Finally, you can remove the roller weights which one shop on here HAS DONE as I have seen it with my own eyes. Lighter rollers, More power.

If you open the run with the downloaded graph viewer software, You can stretch the run out horizontal to make it look real wide and use the smoothing feature to take out dips and bumps. THen finally just dont show the corrections. Ever wonder why you almost never see dynojet plots in the normal format on the internet? You almost always see them in the wide graph viewer format.

Classic example of using the graph view to stretch out the graph: (this is just a random graph pulled of google)



Normal graph as the dyno outputs it after a run



Anyways, George.. I am not in any way stating that you are altering the dyno.. I am just clearing up the matter of can it be done.. Yes..

I know it is being done.. I travel all around and see shops and peoples actions all the time.. And its sad but it will NEVER stop. It puts money in peoples pockets. At some point the general public will start to understand that VF turbos cant make 360whp. Especialy on pump gas.

I can tell you are as frusterated as I am with these shops playing DYNO GAMES.

Happy fathers day to all! Gotta get back to work!

Cya



Clark
Clark the way it is formated on the above viewer will not show more horsepower. It may in fact show a cleaner graph, but def not more power. I will call Dynojet tomorrow and run this by them and post up there input on this.

-George Kakaletris
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Old 06-21-2009, 04:52 PM   #25
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Even if dynos can be manipulated, read high, read low, please, and displease. Cant they just be used as a tool and only as a tool? If someone makes 350 on ICS's dyno, then turns 355 on The Shop's dyno, then 300 on a mustang, the car will trap 113ish no matter.

The problem is that the general public, and or newbies, do not know the differences is dyno's. After using a dyno as a tool, the number should be neglected until an Airboy chart is formulated, which should be done through the tuner on the road when cleaning the tune up.

With this, the dyno is used as a tool, by the tuner, and a universal dyno graph is acieved using the same software that everyone in the subaru community has access to.
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