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Old 06-22-2009, 02:01 PM   #1
AVANTI R5
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Default Drop in diesel fuel prices brings sharp rise in U.S. sales Read more: http://www.aut




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The dramatic decline in diesel fuel prices is driving up U.S. sales of diesel-powered vehicles from European carmakers.

Volkswagen dealers across the country say they can't get enough of the Jetta TDI sedan or station wagon.
"Things have changed, and diesel Jettas are moving. I want more," says Casey Gunther, owner of two VW stores in Fort Lauderdale, Fla.

On Tuesday, June 16, the average nationwide price for a gallon of diesel was $2.60, according to AAA. That compared with $2.67 for regular unleaded gasoline and $2.94 for premium.

A year ago, when diesel hit $4.85 a gallon, European manufacturers wondered how they would sell their new crop of 50-state diesel vehicles, which began arriving last year. VW, Audi, Mercedes-Benz and BMW all sell 50-state diesels in the United States.

Volkswagen sold 3,862 diesel Jettas in May, up from 2,253 in April.

"We would expect equal or higher sales of diesels this month," a VW spokesman says.
About 36 percent of total Jetta sales in May were diesels, compared with an average of 30 percent earlier in the year, the spokesman says.

Volkswagen says demand for the Jetta SportWagen is particularly strong.

Richard Fisher, whose Autobarn dealership group has three VW stores in the Chicago suburbs, says he has "pretty much run out" of TDI SportWagens.

Mercedes-Benz sold 8,242 diesel-powered M-class SUVs from January through May, or 16.5 percent of the total for the vehicle. For all of last year, the diesel version accounted for 13.7 percent of M-class sales.

Through May, diesels accounted for 21.8 percent (5,440) of Mercedes GL sales and 15.1 percent (1,312) of R-class sales, up from 13.7 percent for the GL and 10 percent for the R class in 2008.
http://www.autoweek.com/article/2009...NEWS/906229984
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Old 06-22-2009, 02:13 PM   #2
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SUBARU BRING US THE DIESEL!!!
I would like mine Forester flavored please.
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Old 06-22-2009, 02:14 PM   #3
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Hopefully it is enough to see the VW GTD brought over here in 2010. That car has peaked my interest in diesels.
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Old 06-22-2009, 02:28 PM   #4
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Hopefully it is enough to see the VW GTD brought over here in 2010. That car has peaked my interest in diesels.
although your interest may be at a peak (rather than at a trough) the word you are looking for is "piqued"
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Old 06-22-2009, 02:30 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by tom@kartboy View Post
SUBARU BRING US THE DIESEL!!!
I would like mine Forester flavored please.
Outback here pls (with 6MT)
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Old 06-22-2009, 02:41 PM   #6
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although your interest may be at a peak (rather than at a trough) the word you are looking for is "piqued"
Nice catch.
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Old 06-23-2009, 01:38 PM   #7
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Default Wife test drove the TDI sport wagon

Wife has a 1.8T 01 Jetta - I have an 01 Legacy.

Wife drive the new TDI Sport wagon last weekend. She loved it - but first thing she asked me is when is Subaru building a manual TDI? All I could do is laugh. She said AWD - 6spd manual diesel subaru wagon she'd buy one right now.

Her complaints about the Sport wagon - no AWD she likes AWD now that we've put 140K on the Subaru and 50K on the Jetta. 2nd complaint - no hidden change space in the Jetta her 01 has one and she uses it! SF parking = broken window if change or items are left in the car.

I still can't believe how completely stupid Domestic Auto has been regarding smaller Diesel vehicles for passenger applications. 3L twin turbo diesel in the Caddy wagon or GMC SUV would have my attention right away I might even over look the sh--ty stuff given the engine would be a big step in a new direction.

Subaru 6cyclinder 3L diesel in an enlarged Tribeca with Auto would be a big Hello!!! A sporty wagon with 6spd manual Subaru would be a big win too.

So far looking like we will be getting a VW Sport wagon this next year - selling the Subaru and keeping our old Landcruiser till someone gets off their ass and builds a decent family hauler / SUV with a 3L diesel. Not counting the 60K MB and BMW's only crazy people would pay that much for an SUV that will be used for SUV stuff.
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Old 06-23-2009, 03:08 PM   #8
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MB R320 starts in the 40s new and you can get recent used one in the 30s and even 20s.
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Old 06-23-2009, 03:12 PM   #9
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SUBARU BRING US THE DIESEL!!!
I would like mine Forester flavored please.
Screw you and you logic stupid american.


I can't imagine why CO's at car companies don't do diesel.
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Old 06-23-2009, 07:19 PM   #10
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Default R320 Cdi

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MB R320 starts in the 40s new and you can get recent used one in the 30s and even 20s.
Mike your right - in fact I researched it alot. Even test drove two with the wife pretty big heavy car with a great engine. 06 was the first year huge number of issues with them ranging from failed transmissions to back hatch not closing or opening etc. 07's were only marginally better. 08's the price goes way up - and 09's toss the spare tire for a urea tank. Ever try to find a runflat tire for a MB in Moab?

Good friend actually has his own MB specialty business he said the whole reason he is in business is because of how bad MB service is and how complicated their cars are.

Even with an inside line on cheap bits his Gwagon windshield cost him $1100 because of the MB wiper sensor - in a Gwagon! he's cracked two winshields so far yes his Gwagon sees off road its not a soccer mom wagon. Not to mention the auto wiper sensor will wipe your windsheild when you get dust on it from the dirt road perhaps when looking into the sun. He's had that happen a few times its borderline dangerous.

If MB sold their vehicles with basics - cruise control - nice seats - diesel v6 sorted out transmission which at the moment they basically have one so they better get it working! They could be a major seller on US shores. Instead their approach is load it full of gimicks that break and are hard to fix get a crappy CR rating. Bla - bla etc.

Put that 3.2L v6 diesel into a GM - Ford - Nissan- Toyota SUV at a some what normal price point +1500 for diesel version and I'd have one.
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Old 06-24-2009, 07:31 PM   #11
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I love all the people who said they wouldn't sell due to the price of diesel.

IT FLUCTUATES!!!

Basically it's high in winter, and low in summer, following the heating season.
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Old 06-24-2009, 08:05 PM   #12
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What will happen to diesel prices when demand will grow because of more diesel cars on the road?
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Old 06-24-2009, 08:43 PM   #13
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What will happen to diesel prices when demand will grow because of more diesel cars on the road?
biodiesel made from all of America's good ole fast food joints' fryer oil will pick up the slack
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Old 06-24-2009, 09:47 PM   #14
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What will happen to diesel prices when demand will grow because of more diesel cars on the road?
That's the day I pick up the sweetest performance car I can find and fill up on $1.95 93.
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Old 06-24-2009, 09:49 PM   #15
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What will happen to diesel prices when demand will grow because of more diesel cars on the road?
Even tripling the number of diesel cars in the US won't make a blip in the demand for diesel.

A tiny uptick in the economy will though: Think of how many big rigs that get 4-6 mpg and normally drive 100,000 miles a year are parked right now...
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Old 06-24-2009, 11:50 PM   #16
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Default impacts on diesel demand

#1 is military demand and jet fuel they both are derived from the diesel production ability.
#2 is heating fuel and heavy equipment ie trains and trucks

Consumer ie light duty trucks and passenger cars don't even hardly register on the scale and given that the average vehicle owner who swiches to a diesel equivilent will use roughly 20% less fuel than they would driving the gas version thats a very large drop over all in oil demand less oil needed for gas production as a whole. Hence lower fuel costs and less pressure on the GOV to cave into snotty oil sheks.

4dr passenger cars which make up a bulk of the vehicles we have today actually tend to see 30% reduction in fuel which means going diesel on a large scale would dramatically alter the US demand for oil. Not to mention diesel vehicles are fairly low tech compared to the hybrids surfacing now. Plus they are pretty much profitable from day one as long as market forces do not work against the effort to sell them like say taxing diesel more than gas like we currently do here in the US. Given the GOV need for cash I would expect to see GOV increases in Gas prices to make them level with diesel. This does two things increases tax revenu and makes diesel an attractive option for the pump price natzi who doesn't seem to be able to do the math when comparing milege vs fuel cost and only looks at per gallon price at the fuel pump - and says Oh diesel is more $ so don't buy a diesel car. :-) fine by me keeps the cost of buying the few diesels we have down to MSRP or better for me. Looking like we will pick up a Jetta sport wagon TDI before the end of year. :-)
Subaru just lost two die hard customers.

Shoot if India brings the TDI hybrid truck we might just dump the old Toyota landcruiser and pick up the india diesel hybrid truck too.
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Old 06-25-2009, 12:05 AM   #17
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You think domestic Auto is in trouble now? Just wait till all the non domestic auto companies and even some new ones put fun to drive - resonably priced very profitable diesel passenger cars on the road here in the US. People buy cars they enjoy driving that are fun - drive a jetta TDI - drive a Prius I bet most people would go Jetta simply because its more enjoyable to drive. Not to mention you can get a trick Jetta TDI for less than 30K. Prius not so much.

Neither the hybrid as we know it today nor the diesel is the final answer but the diesel has way more competitive profit ability than the current hybrids. So domestic auto will get its a-s-s spanked again in the very large predicted 2012 auto purchase rush as people rush to replace their old worn out cars making up the current 10yr old average car age right now. Sure hybrids will sell but those companies selling diesel vehicles will have higher profits and more spending money to develop better products for the future. We all know how that works GM has demonstrated what happens when your competitors have more research and development cash and are turning out solid products that you simply can not compete with.

Just watch. This India built midsize Truck and SUV diesel hybrid if done right could turn the bread and butter truck market up side down for alot of auto companies including Toyota who clearly has not taken fuel economy seriously with their high profit trucks.
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Old 06-25-2009, 01:11 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Derbagger View Post
I love all the people who said they wouldn't sell due to the price of diesel.

IT FLUCTUATES!!!

Basically it's high in winter, and low in summer, following the heating season.
Exactly.

And in the end, over the entire year, the average price/gal of diesel is still probably greater than an average gallon of regular unleaded.

I might consider one, but lately I've been getting similar MPG as the TDi with my gasser Civic. Diesel is cool and Jettas are nice cars, but I think it's a bit overrated when you take into account other comparable non-hybrid cars out on the market right now.
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Old 06-25-2009, 02:10 AM   #19
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Shoot if India brings the TDI hybrid truck we might just dump the old Toyota landcruiser and pick up the india diesel hybrid truck too.
you mean this one??

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Old 06-25-2009, 03:55 AM   #20
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Exactly.

And in the end, over the entire year, the average price/gal of diesel is still probably greater than an average gallon of regular unleaded.

I might consider one, but lately I've been getting similar MPG as the TDi with my gasser Civic. Diesel is cool and Jettas are nice cars, but I think it's a bit overrated when you take into account other comparable non-hybrid cars out on the market right now.
It's not only about fuel mileage. The TDI engine in the Jetta makes 140HP just like the Civic engine, but it makes *twice* as much torque. Not only it's more fun to drive, but you can haul and tow quite a few things with ease. The current gasoline powered Civic is an excellent car for the money but even Honda will have to introduce a Diesel engine at some point.
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Old 06-25-2009, 07:26 AM   #21
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The TDI engine in the Jetta makes 140HP just like the Civic engine, but it makes *twice* as much torque.
They still have similar torque at the wheels.
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Old 06-25-2009, 07:32 AM   #22
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Default Audi pushes diesel as oil-saving option

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Volkswagen AG's Audi, the luxury automaker that plans to offer two U.S. diesel models by year's end, is promoting the fuel to American consumers as a better way to cut oil use than hybrids and electric cars.

Audi, based in Ingolstadt, Germany, began a U.S. ad campaign this week focused on the viability of diesel autos versus gasoline-electric hybrids and those that run on batteries. A diesel Q7 sport-utility vehicle went on sale six weeks ago, and a diesel A3 wagon is due late this year.

"We're not saying these technologies are nonsense," Johan de Nysschen, president of Audi of America Inc., said of hybrids and electric cars. "For us the appeal of the clean diesel technology is that it is here right now.

Volkswagen and Audi have emphasized diesel engines, which power 50 percent of European cars, rather than the focus on electricity favored by U.S. and Japanese automakers.

President Barack Obama's administration seems to back electric autos over diesels, said de Nysschen, who is based in Herndon, Va. General Motors Corp. plans to have its extended-range electric Chevy Volt for sale late next year, and most major automakers have had hybrid models for sale for some time now.

One ad among Audi's television and Internet spots shows barrels rolling through streets and onto a supertanker, saying that if a third of Americans drove diesel autos, daily imported oil use would fall by 1.5 million barrels. Diesel engines are as much as 30 percent more efficient than gasoline models.

Smell, power

Diesel vehicles now account for about 3 percent of sales in the U.S., according to research firm J.D. Power & Associates. Hybrids have a market share of about 2.4 percent. Audi expects diesels to be 15 percent of all U.S. deliveries in 15 years.

Rising fuel prices in the late 1970s and 1980s spurred automakers, including GM and Wolfsburg, Germany-based Volkswagen, to sell diesels. But buyers didn't like the cars' smell, lack of power and difficult cold-weather starts.
Newer diesel engines feature better performance and fewer odors. Stuttgart, Germany-based Daimler AG renewed the push for diesel vehicles in the U.S. two years ago with three diesel SUVs from Mercedes-Benz.

In 2008, Volkswagen resumed sales of its Jetta TDI after a one-year hiatus, while Munich-based BMW AG offered its 335 sedans and X5 diesel SUVs.

De Nysschen said competition among the companies thwarted efforts to jointly market the advantages of diesels over gasoline-powered autos.

"If the automakers had any sense, we would collaborate and do this together," de Nysschen said.

U.S. buyers of the diesels offered by all of the German automakers qualify for tax credits of as much as $1,800 for fuel-efficient vehicles.

Audi has outperformed most automakers in the U.S. in 2009, with sales down 18 percent to 36,820 vehicles through May compared with a 37 percent industrywide decline. The company's market share increased by a third, to 0.8 percent, according to research firm Autodata Corp.
http://www.detnews.com/article/20090...370/1148/rss25
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Old 06-25-2009, 11:55 AM   #23
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They still have similar torque at the wheels.
This. The diesel weighs more and will never make screaming boy racer sounds like a gas Civic.

Diesels are fun to drive for their own reasons.. but not because the torque numbers .. but the shape of the torque curve.
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Old 06-25-2009, 12:49 PM   #24
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why SOA don't diesel
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Old 06-25-2009, 01:25 PM   #25
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Diesels are fun to drive for their own reasons.. but not because the torque numbers .. but the shape of the torque curve.
This. More torque at the crank, but similar torque at the wheels because of taller gearing due to lower rev capability. Fortunately there's a metric that takes this all into account, commonly known as HORSEPOWER. Area under the curve is a good thing to have though.
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