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Old 04-26-2002, 11:44 PM   #1
vrm vrm
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Default Porterfields are toast after 3 track days!

I am speechless. I drive it like I stole it when i'm on the track ,but the rest of the time it's pretty much my wifes daily driver. I take it in to the dealer and they say I was almost metal to metal. I can't remember how much I payed for them ,but I know they were not cheap. I got 4000 miles and a few track days out of them so I was left with no other option but to put the oem pads back on . Does anyone have the ultimate street/track pad that has performed well for them? This is my 2nd go around with Porterfield and the 1st time didn't go any better ,so I will bid them adue and caution you to consider my experience before giving them any of your $$$.
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Old 04-27-2002, 12:13 AM   #2
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I don't think there's such a thing as a pad that is good on the street that will also lsurvive days on the track.
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Old 04-27-2002, 01:53 AM   #3
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Get 1 set for daily driving and 1 for track events and switch them out before track days
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Old 04-27-2002, 05:09 AM   #4
Jason
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Are those R4S pads?

If so, dont' be surprised. I finished a set of R4S w/ 60% of material left in ONE track day.
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Old 04-27-2002, 09:01 AM   #5
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Yeah...the best thing to do is use a separate set of pads for track days. It'll be more economical in the long run.
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Old 04-27-2002, 09:42 AM   #6
vrm vrm
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Default R4s

Yes, these were the R4s pads. I had a bad fitment issue with the first set ( like many others here) and unfortunately had to really make some noise before they would do anything about it. These pads did do excellent on the track, but the bitter taste left from the last go around with the customer service rep. has got me looking for another company. I think I will consider swapping pads out for track days, and hopefully won't kill myself with these oem pads in between. I promise you do not know the degree to which these suck untill you go back!SCARY
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Old 04-27-2002, 09:44 AM   #7
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I use a dedicated set of track pads and rotors. I've gone through two sets of Porterfield R4 pads, each lasting about 5 days on track with a few hundred street miles (to the track and back each day).

I am now using Carbotech Panther Plus pads www.carbotecheng.com . Fade resistance is excellent (never faded them on track), grip is very good (although not quite as powerful as the R4), and Carbotech says they're much easier on rotors than the Porterfields, particularly when cold (on the street, in other words). I've only done 2 days on track with them thus far, and I've put a couple/few thousand street miles on them and there's tons of material left. The big downer for street use is that these babies crank out dust like there's no tomorrow. I normally run Mintex 1155s on the street - a couple/few days after washing the wheels you can see the fronts start to get a little dark with dust again, and in maybe 10-15 days the wheels are pretty black. With the Panther Plus pads, no kidding, 2 days and the wheels are completely black. The P+ pads cost something like $135 for the front set, compared to $185 for the R4 pads.

For my next series of track events I'll be using the Carbotech Panther XP, which is a bit more expensive ($155 I think?), but also a bit more track-oriented. I'm going to be running the Open Track Challenge and the guy I spoke to at Carbotech said he figured these would last me the full 7 days of track time. We shall see - I'll be keeping my existing P+ pads as a ready reserve.

Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan
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Old 04-27-2002, 06:03 PM   #8
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if you need to replace the pads, where will you get them? Do the 4 pot and 2 pot brakes fit the pads available in the U.S. Or do you have to buy pads specifically made for the 4 & 2 pot brakes

Leo
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Old 04-27-2002, 07:47 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by leoneo01
if you need to replace the pads, where will you get them? Do the 4 pot and 2 pot brakes fit the pads available in the U.S. Or do you have to buy pads specifically made for the 4 & 2 pot brakes

Leo
I'm assuming your question was directed at me? If so, I already have one set of pads with plenty of meat on them, so that will be my backup. Plus, my co-driver will be bringing his set of Porterfield R4 pads that have only seen 2 track days thus far, so we'll actually have two backups. Shouldn't be a problem.

As for the 4 pots and 2 pots, I know the 4 pots use different pads than the stock 2.5GT/WRX/2.5RS/Outback 2 pot calipers. In the rear, I don't know what the STi 2 pots use, as so few people actually have them.

Pat
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Old 04-27-2002, 10:50 PM   #10
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It seems that the 4 pot pads are actually cheaper than the 2 pot ones for some reason.
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Old 04-28-2002, 12:11 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by RidinLow
It seems that the 4 pot pads are actually cheaper than the 2 pot ones for some reason.
Reason = Nissan 300ZX

More demand for 300ZX sized performance pads than subaru 2-pot sized performance pads.
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Old 04-28-2002, 01:05 AM   #12
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Default Thanks

I appreciate your taking the time to share your perspective Pat. I will look into the carbotechs.
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Old 04-28-2002, 12:26 PM   #13
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I have to agree with Patrick Olsen here. I've gone the same route as him with trying the Porterfields, being a little disappointed, and moving on to Carbotech. Carbotech makes a much better pad. I'm also moving to their full race compound for track events...I'll post my impressions after my next track event next month.
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Old 04-28-2002, 03:37 PM   #14
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i'm actually a big fan of the Hawk ferro-carbon pads. they make streets pads and track pads - both are great but i wouldn't recomend using track pads on the street due to the fact that u have to warm them up to get 'em to work
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Old 04-28-2002, 05:27 PM   #15
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I've had the same problem with R4S pads. I went to R4 pads and even went through those quickly on the track. It's all about the heat. I put in the $38 wheel well ducts, and the last time I went out the pads were fine--normal wear. I think I'm going to do the big duct mod that goes through the fog lights (do a search for it and you'll see--lot's of pictures and instructions and the whole thing).

Again, I'm pretty sure it's not the pads. The front brakes on a WRX get really hot. The temperature paint on my rotors showed a temp of 600 C (over 1100 F). R4S pads just aren't designed to take that heat. The carbotech panther plus say they can, and they make another pad that can go even hotter, though I wouldn't drive it to the store to buy milk.

G

FYI, I'm running dba slotted rotors, Subaru 4 pots in the front, stock in the rear, R4 pads, super blue fluid, ss lines--the slotted rotors also contribute to the wear issue. I'm considering going back to non-slotted.

Question: For you guys who change your pads for street and track use, do you bleed the lines? I was told you can't just change the pads without dealing with the fluid (due to pad thickness differences, etc.). Is that true?
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Old 04-28-2002, 05:33 PM   #16
NateDogg
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i've heard good things about Carbotech, i think there is a rep for them on this board as a matter of fact. only downside to them that i can see is that the brake dust they produce is supposed to be very harmfull to wheels. so just clean them off every couple days.

nate
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Old 04-28-2002, 05:53 PM   #17
Legacy777
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Hey Pat,

Got a question for ya........

I'm going to be doing a WRX front brake swap on my 90 legacy. I have the calipers. I'm still looking into rotors, I'm looking at the brembro slotted from paul ekland, or stock rotors.

Pads, I have looked at the Carbotech panther plus pads. Talked with Andie, was very helpful. They sound like a very good pad. I really don't do any track runs, just mainly street driving. After I do some more work on the car, I may run it occassionally in autocross....but probably not too often.

The dusting....is a mild concern to me. I really don't have a place to wash my car regularly.....so it's usually 2 weeks or something like that.

I have Axxis metal masters on the car now. They sound like the Mintex as far as dusting.

I know Mike Shields praises the Mintex pads pretty good. How are they compared to the panther plus pads?

I'm still doing my research, and would any input you can give me.

On another note, I will most likely be getting the rotors cryo-treated locally......if that makes a difference at all......

Has anyone had experience with cryo-treating the pads themself?


Thanks

josh



Quote:
Originally posted by Patrick Olsen
I use a dedicated set of track pads and rotors. I've gone through two sets of Porterfield R4 pads, each lasting about 5 days on track with a few hundred street miles (to the track and back each day).

I am now using Carbotech Panther Plus pads www.carbotecheng.com . Fade resistance is excellent (never faded them on track), grip is very good (although not quite as powerful as the R4), and Carbotech says they're much easier on rotors than the Porterfields, particularly when cold (on the street, in other words). I've only done 2 days on track with them thus far, and I've put a couple/few thousand street miles on them and there's tons of material left. The big downer for street use is that these babies crank out dust like there's no tomorrow. I normally run Mintex 1155s on the street - a couple/few days after washing the wheels you can see the fronts start to get a little dark with dust again, and in maybe 10-15 days the wheels are pretty black. With the Panther Plus pads, no kidding, 2 days and the wheels are completely black. The P+ pads cost something like $135 for the front set, compared to $185 for the R4 pads.

For my next series of track events I'll be using the Carbotech Panther XP, which is a bit more expensive ($155 I think?), but also a bit more track-oriented. I'm going to be running the Open Track Challenge and the guy I spoke to at Carbotech said he figured these would last me the full 7 days of track time. We shall see - I'll be keeping my existing P+ pads as a ready reserve.

Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan
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Old 04-28-2002, 06:41 PM   #18
Patrick Olsen
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Quote:
Originally posted by legacy777
I'm going to be doing a WRX front brake swap on my 90 legacy. I have the calipers. I'm still looking into rotors, I'm looking at the brembro slotted from paul ekland, or stock rotors.
I'm about 99% certain that Brembo isn't making WRX-sized rotors yet. It could be Paul is offering to sell you some STi 4-pot rotors, which aren't exactly the same size but are close enough that people have used them without any problems.

Quote:
Originally posted by legacy777
Pads, I have looked at the Carbotech panther plus pads. Talked with Andie, was very helpful. They sound like a very good pad. I really don't do any track runs, just mainly street driving. After I do some more work on the car, I may run it occassionally in autocross....but probably not too often.

The dusting....is a mild concern to me. I really don't have a place to wash my car regularly.....so it's usually 2 weeks or something like that.
Yeah, I talked to Andie when I bought mine. He told me he runs the Panther+ front and rear on his daily driver - he must have a much higher dusting tolerance than I do. I would say the Panther+ is overkill for a street/auto-x car - try the regular Panther instead. I've never tried them, but they're a bit less hard-core, and hopefully will dust a bit less as a result.

Quote:
Originally posted by legacy777
How are the Mintex pads compared to the panther plus pads?
I would say the Mintex 1155s are a better street/auto-x pad. They don't produce anywhere near as much dust (although they still produce a lot more than OEM pads will), the 1155s don't squeal as much when cold and/or at low speeds (although they do squeal significantly more than OEM pads will), and the 1155s definitely have better cold grip than the Panther+. The Panther+ has good cold grip, but that first stop in the morning is definitely not full power. The 1155s, on the other hand, have excellent cold grip. The trade off is that 1155s cannot keep up with me on track, while the Panther+ pads can - but you don't plan to open track the car, so that's a moot point.

Quote:
Originally posted by legacy777
Has anyone had experience with cryo-treating the pads themself?
I've never heard of cryo-treating the pads themselves, I'm not sure if that would do anything desireable to the pads. I just ordered my 4th set of cryo'd rotors (1 front set for my Mustang, 3 front sets for the Legacy) and not once has the vendor ( www.frozenrotors.com ) asked if I wanted to do the pads, too, which would lead me to believe that just isn't something that is normally done.

I've had good results with cryo treating with my open track rotors (plain, OEM-sized Brembos). Again, though, I think that's overkill for the street. I guess it depends on how inexpensive it is to get done locally. My street/auto-x rotors are plain, untreated Brembos, and I've had no problems whatsoever with warping. Unfortunately I didn't write down the install in my little maintenance record book, so I'm not sure of mileage, but I would guess it's 20k+ so far.

Pat
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Old 04-28-2002, 07:11 PM   #19
Legacy777
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Thanks for the comments Pat.

I don't mind a little dust....I've run performance friction carbon metallics before the Axxis metal masters......they both dust about the same. Wheels get dirty after a week or two. Which doesn't bother me for excellant braking feel.

The one thing I did like about the carbons were the ability to do a 100-0 stop....and have no brake fade.

I will check into the Mintex a little more. What's the main difference between the 1155's and the 1144's....(think that is the number)

I need to shoot paul ekland a call some time this week. Ask him a little more questions about the rotors and such.


I dropped about 700 for brembro cross-drilled rotors and pads several years ago......I've learned a little bit more since that time.....and still learning....hehe

Thanks again Pat.

Josh
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Old 04-29-2002, 06:52 PM   #20
joefong
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u might want to look at endless for pads.

joe
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Old 04-29-2002, 07:31 PM   #21
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Quote:
I don't mind a little dust....
I also took Pat's advice on the Panther Plus pads. They stop like stock pads when cold, but grab 100-200% more (for the same pedal pressure) once warmed up with no fade whatsoever. Pad wear at the track was also much less than street pads, I'd estimate they were at least 4 times as durable as the Subaru pads I used at the same track last year.

I didn't mind the dusting, but I wasn't prepared for the constant squealing that got to me after only two weeks of commuting. There's a constant metallic sound on the highway (not unlike fingernails on a chalkboard!), and it comes and goes. So I gave up and switched to street pads on the weekend.

BTW, mine is a GC8 application (MY98 2.5RS/Legacy GT).

-WaC
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