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Old 04-27-2002, 09:15 AM   #1
Corn-Picker
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Thumbs down ScoobySport Downpipe Review

My downpipe arrives in the mail. I tear open the box and take a look. My first impression is that whoever made the downpipe was drunk at the time. The pipe has poor welds all over the place. It looks very messy. Now, of course if a weld looks bad it may not be weak, but how a weld looks tells me something about how much the people making this pipe care about thier product.

The next thing I don't notice is bolts or gaskets. I can understand not including gaskets, but you should include a few nuts and bolts.

I notice that the outside of the downpipe is very "dented" for lack of a better word. It's not perfectly round like a pipe should be. And when I say dented I don't mean where the pipe is curved (at the ends), but along the straight length of pipe. They're not deep dents, but it's not perfectly round like it should be.

I inspect the inside of the pipe and notice that there are metal shavings everywhere. I guess it would have taken too much time to clean those out. The flanges also look a little mis-calculated. There's one screw hole in the downpipe where there's only about a quarter of an inch of metal between the hole and the end of the flange. Luckily this is not a load bearing piece.

Next I inspect the inside a little closer and notice there is a large splinter of metal obstructing the exit hole. I had to pull this off using a pair of pliers. Yeah, I only paid $355.50, I guess I'm naive to expect any kind of quality or fit and finish.

The bell shaped part of the downpipe (the part that attaches to the turbo), looks like it was "smoothed" out with a Dremel. It has a very bumby messy non-smooth look to it. It literally looks like someone tried to smooth it using an oxide grinding wheel. Poor crafstmanship all around.

Now I'm done looking at the pipe and decide it's time to install it. Suprisingly the bolts attatched to my stock downpipe at the turbo come loose pretty easily. I take off the stock downpipe and notice how heavy it is compared to the new pipe. It also looks more restrictive. At this point I'm very excited that I'll actually get this job done in under an hour. Nope, ScobySport had a different plan...

I tried to install the downpipe at the turbo and I notice it won't fit. After about five seconds of pondering I relaize the problem, the screws for the up-pipe are obstructing the lower flange of the downpipe. Let me guess ScoobySport, this is a problem with Subaru build quality? So, Now I have two choices, grind off the top of the bolts by my tubo, possibly hitting the gasket (it was stuck on) and throwing who knows how much metal shivings in the turbo, or, start grinding on my brand new $355.50 pipe. I chose the prior. I think I kept out most of the metal shavings and I think I kept from hitting the gasket but this is not something I should have to do. The stock Subaru downpipe fit there perfectly, with no obstruction from the up-pipe bolts.

So after a half hour or so of careful griniding my downpipe will fit. Woohoo... I decide to take it for a ride and see what it does. The car definitely has more power, more torque, and is better able to breath at higher RPMS. Boost comes on quicker and harder. I imagine these attributes are true of any straight pipe though.

Let me summarize. I do not know how ScoobySport and quality EVER got associated with each other. The ScoobySport downpipe is one of the most poorly crafted aftermarket pieces I have ever seen. Poor welds, poor finish, poor fit, and poor anything else you can think of. I am very happy that I did not buy the whole ScoobySport turbo back exhaust at one time. Even if the other components were twice as good as this downpipe, they are still not of the quality they should be.


Edit: Fixed Spelling

Edit: More info

Let me list my other mods befroe the downpipe for the curious. I probably had a little less than 250 HP before the downpipe and I could definitely feel the difference it made.

Vishnu up-pipe (now THIS is how you make a pipe)
Suby Sports lightened pulleys
Ported and polished throttle body

Edit: Information I forgot

EGTs dropped a good bit too. Before, under WOT in third gear I could get to 1500°∆F+, now it only maxes to 1450°∆F. I have an Omori EGT gauge with thermocouple probe placed about 6 inches off of cylinders 3 and 4(where the manifold casting button is).
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Last edited by Corn-Picker; 04-27-2002 at 09:40 AM.
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Old 04-27-2002, 12:20 PM   #2
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Wow that $ucks. Sorry to hear about your problems.

Have you tried contacting the person you bought it from?
Seems like you are owed a little satisfaction.

I love my TurboXS exhaust!


Bill
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Old 04-27-2002, 12:38 PM   #3
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For the price you paid I would expect the fit and finish to be better. No hardware,gaskets you deserve some kind of satisfaction definatly
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Old 04-27-2002, 12:56 PM   #4
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Everything you said is true as others have reported. Think positive however and enjoy the results! The car should run real nice with it once you have masaged it onto the car...
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Old 04-28-2002, 01:58 AM   #5
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I just installed my ScoobySport DP this past week. The welds werenít pretty and the flanges werenít perfect, but I had zero problems with fitment. I read about the "build quality" of the ScoobySport before I purchased it so I new what I was getting. I also read about the performance gains and testing that went into its design which was what I was looking for. Who cares if the welds look crappy, a DP is designed for function not fashion.

Shawn
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Old 04-28-2002, 10:40 AM   #6
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Typical. I honestly dont understand why people buy that stuff.
My car is a reflection of me. Not just in performance but in looks. It shows whats important to me. That just dosent cut it.

Ken
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Old 04-29-2002, 01:41 AM   #7
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i have the Stromung catless downpipe and the build quality is nearly as good as my vishnu uppipe. It was $199, also. ANyway, the only problem with the Stromung downpipe is it's not a bellmouth. oh well. I'm gonna get one of the exhaustdepot.com downpipes when they come out.
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Old 04-29-2002, 02:04 PM   #8
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I have the scoobysport downpipe and backbox and have found the workmanship to be..functional. It wasn't AT ALL pretty, but I had no troubles with fitment (other than having to cut on the rear diff protector). Same as scurry, it met my 'expectations'.

I really like the product. Only CEL (looking for knockin-on wood) (w/Perrin uppipe) was after cruising for awhile at around 2500 in 4th.
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Old 05-02-2002, 05:07 PM   #9
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Quote:
Typical. I honestly dont understand why people buy that stuff
People buy it because it works. It is a tested and proven design by a company that has been around for a while.
Quote:
My car is a reflection of me. Not just in performance but in looks
If this product was in a location that could be seen on a regular basis, the build quality would have been more of a issue. I am very anal about my possessions also. I donít know about you but rarely do people climb under my car and say "man, those welds look like crap".
Quote:
It shows whatís important to me. That just doesnít cut it.
You are correct. This is what it boils Down. In this case it had all the features I was looking for in a DP with proven results. Other DP's may have a little more peek HP but that wasn't important to me. I was looking for more usable performance all the way around. And it does cut it, maybe not for you but it does for others.
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Old 05-02-2002, 06:49 PM   #10
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Default Downpipe

Hello all!

Noticed this thread...

CornPicker, I apologize that you were less than happy with the d/p that you received. The cleanup work on the pipe should be better than you experienced, and I would be glad to offer you another if you wish -

Most people buy the ScoobySport system for the low/midrange torque gains, the warranty, etc or the SOUND - or some combination of the three.

The British are very purposeful about their builds - if it were a finished sculpture to sit on the coffee table, they would make it suitably, but for a piece that is under the car and will soon discolor, their approach is different.

What goes into the systems is a decade of exhaust experience with 2.0 liter turbocharged cars (Subaru and Mitsu), including works team builds for the WRC. They put a lot into the design and testing.

As to appearance, yep it is industrial - and we don't mind, but thats just us.

Regards,
Ken
ScoobySport North America
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Old 05-04-2002, 01:18 AM   #11
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true, it doens't have to be pretty but......$355 is a lot for a piece of metal so it better have some decent looking piping, flanges, quality, etc. the pipe could look ugly, as long as the welds were good, finish on the inside was good, fitment is good, and the pipe will last.

dennis
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Old 05-04-2002, 03:38 PM   #12
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I know a guy with a full scoobysport exhaust up dp everything. And i personally like the look. Very purposeful. And the sound....mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
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Old 05-08-2002, 04:57 PM   #13
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Thumbs up ScoobySport Turbo Back

I love my Scoobsport turbo back system. Sounds great and the performance gains were awesome. I want to do the uppipe next but am torn between the Scooby uppipe and the Vishnu. The above post saying the Vishnu uppipe cured his CEL is almost enougth to push me over the edge.
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Old 05-08-2002, 06:52 PM   #14
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If you have done our full turbo back system, and are looking to do an uppipe - I would say that the only thing that would cure your CEL would be an electronic fix such as the one we offer -
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Old 05-08-2002, 07:32 PM   #15
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Just to clarify the above: if you are running completely catless, you are almost guaranteed a PO420 CEL unless you have some additional fix -

KC
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Old 05-17-2002, 09:15 AM   #16
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What about a Vishnu up-pipe, ScoobySport downpipe and catback, plus the stock center 3rd cat?

Still CEL?
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Old 05-18-2002, 09:33 PM   #17
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How would you like it if Subaru felt the same way when they built your car? Anyway . Guys that like Scooby Sport stuff always sound like those guys that say," That 3" exhaust is to big, that turbo needs back pressure!" What ever you say sir.

Ken
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Old 05-18-2002, 11:43 PM   #18
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Default 2.5 vs 3"

Deliciousspeed -

Well... it looks like you are perhaps saying that a 3" is better. I have to reply better for what? Low and midrange torque? High end horsepower?

When you refer to "that ScoobySport stuff" - perhaps I am misunderstanding, if I am let me know - it sounds almost as though you dismiss it as a silly design.

Please note that it has been designed by the same shop that has designed and built exhaust for the Mitsubishi World Rally team (fellow named Tommi Makinen), and Ralliart, and ScoobySport, for about 10 years. They use the hybrid 3" to 2.5 in the ScoobySport piping because they were tuning for a specific outcome - drivability and low/midrange torque.

The downpipe that they developed, and that we sell today, is widely accepted in Europe as one of the best designs for the WRX. A company by the name of Prodrive uses one of remarkably similar design on its $800,000.00 works rally cars for World Competition.

What some of these other folks here are saying is that the performance and design is worth the industrial look to them. Or that they dont mind the industrial look. They aren't telling you that you must like it.

The difference between 2.5 and 3" is the flow, not the backpressure. I almost hate to go into the argument too hard, because I'm happy to let our competition build large diameter systems all day, and we will continue to have a larger area under the torque curve on the dyno, comparing exhaust for exhaust.

Regards,
Ken Cole
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Old 05-18-2002, 11:53 PM   #19
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Default The Weis

Weis,

That is actually a nice combination - an uppipe (Vishnu's or ours) with the third cat still in place. I am running that combo on Scooby 1 right now, with a ScoobySport muffler at the back. You can always take the center pipes with you to the track and easily decat the entire system if you like.

(As an aside, the turbo whistle with our 2" inside diameter uppipe, the downpipe, and the ScoobySport muffler on the back, is just gorgeous ) .

ANYWAY, to answer your question: Many customers with that combination dont get a CEL... others go for a time and get intermitttent CELs, however, and you would then have to come back for the fix. If you have bought our downpipe from us, we always extend one CEL fix to you at the package price ($60.00 rather than 75.00).

The beauty of our CEL fix is that it allows you to run catless if your local situation or usage of the car also allows it... with no CEL and no mixture richness.
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Old 05-19-2002, 04:49 PM   #20
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I don't care how long they've been building exhausts or whom they built them for in the past. The way they look reflects a big part of the perceived quality of the parts. Face it.

Merits of the Scooby sport design have been discussed in depth in the Factory forced induction forum. The last time wasnít long ago either. Scooby sport exhausts donít suit my driving habits/preferences. I don't spend a lot of time at low engine speeds. Ask yourself, is the compromise worth the losses. With this system I say no. Someone get on a dyno and prove me wrong.

BPM HP Challenge

In this thread you'll see opinions from owners and Vendors.

Ken
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Old 05-19-2002, 08:16 PM   #21
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I don't care how long they've been building the exhaust either, ignoring the 2.5" vs 3.0" debate, and ignoring their heritage, here were the facts of my ScoobySport downpipe.

The downpipe would not fit onto my car without modification
The downpipe had a large metal splinter obstructing the exit stream
The downpipe was dented, not smooth like a pipe should be
Inside of the downppipe was bumpy, it looks like someone attempeted to smooth the bellhouse opening with an oxide grinding wheel.


All of the above are physical problems that would hurt performance. Non-performance problems include messy welds and poorly drilled flanges.

I can promise I'll never buy another ScoobySport exhaust product, I was very disatisfied with it. I sold the downpipe on i-club within a week of receiving it.

I still plan on ordering some parts from you Ken, especially some lights and maybe even the ScoobySport Xenon HID morettes, but we'll have to work out some sort of satisfaction guruantee before I drop one grand on the ScoobySport morettes.
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Old 05-20-2002, 12:12 PM   #22
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I will pop in here and say.....the Scoobysport pipes carry a 25 year warrenty......that should say something about build quality, Name another exhaust that carries that kind of warrenty.......

you also said you have a vishnu up-pipe.....this unit comes with studs.....maybe those are too long?

I have installed to many SS downpipes to count on both hands............never once a fitment problem!

Sorry to hear about your troubles............

Nate
SCC Tuning
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Old 05-20-2002, 12:47 PM   #23
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Thumbs up SS DownPipe

Corn,
sorry to hear about your ordeal. I have a SS turboback and a Vishnu Stage 0. All I can tell you is that I love my exhaust setup. I had no fitment problem with my downpipe. It went on with no problems what so ever. I really love the sound and usually am a city driver, so the low/mid power is fantastic.

I have seen the BPM exhausts (Jama's & WRXTHIS) and have to say that they are beautiful to look at. No arguement there, but I also have no problems with my Scooby Sport.

I purchase it with knowing their reputation and for the low/mid range power.

Todd
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Old 05-20-2002, 04:51 PM   #24
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Im pretty new here, and Im not here to burn bridges. Im a pretty damn good certified welder..

I have said this many times...

It is just as easy to lay down a beautiful weld as it is to lay down a CRAPPY weld

I personally have not seen the pipe in person, so I cant say..

BTW,,,KEN, when you say industrial look, I dont understand.. A really good friend of mine is an indutrial structual welder, his stuff looks like it was welded by a robot, it is so perfect... So if the welds on your units are not that good, I wouldnt call them INDUSTRIAL... like I said I have not seen the workmanship, so I will not say anything about the Scoobysport part, until I can judge it for myself... It does sound like it works well though...

Last edited by spinwax; 05-20-2002 at 04:57 PM.
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Old 05-20-2002, 08:58 PM   #25
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Default Welds

CornPicker -

Actually, you've brought the post back to what you posted originally about, quite appropriate... when I went into the good design, I was replying to DeliciouSpeed.

Glad to see that you might consider us for other bits - as with anything that we sell, if you receive it and are not happy with it, you may return it for a refund. I have heard of enough others not accepting returns... this is not our policy. We don't even have a "restocking charge".

Spinwax:

When I say "industrial", what I mean is that our systems are not polished like some, I am not saying that the welds are crappy! Again, we guarantee these for 25 years, they are well made. It does sound like CornPicker had a poorly cleaned up pipe. We would gladly replace it... in fact, I'll offer now to still replace it or refund your money if you return it CP.

The systems are very purposeful... if they were built to be put on a coffee table, then Hayward and Scott would polish them more and spend extra time intimately cleaning each weld up to perfection... but if the system is strong on the car, fits, gives dyno proven results...and will get heat discoloration and mud all over it... then there is a point where weld stitch analysis stops being useful.

If the market demands it, we may spend a bit of extra time cleaning the pipes up more... we have had very few (3 or 4) returns from someone who just didnt like the look of the pipe, most buy the system for the great torque delivery, fit and (grin) that ..... sound



Ken
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