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Old 05-08-2010, 01:17 PM   #201
JRach
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Where are you gettin' the tune done?
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Old 05-08-2010, 03:43 PM   #202
morrocco88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dropdfocus View Post
My guess - 327 whp
Quote:
Originally Posted by scoobiedude 66 View Post
352 whp this looks like a beast! love the build and have been following since day 1 you posted...
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRach View Post
Where are you gettin' the tune done?
Getting tuned at Maxwell Power in Arlington. They built the motor, so it's best to have them tune it. Plus, Dom is an excellent tuner from what I've heard and seen in the Power Bragging section.

I'm hoping for 300 tq and hp on pump gas tune, and as much as I can get with the Meth spraying. I would be happy with 350. I wish I would've gone with a rotated 3076, but it's too late now. This Polka Pickle is so responsive and doesn't feel laggy at all so it should make a nice power band. We shall see how it turns out.
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Old 05-11-2010, 04:06 PM   #203
scoobiedude 66
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keep us posted man.. hopefully im close
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Old 05-12-2010, 01:19 AM   #204
morrocco88
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^^^ I hope your right too! I would be totally happy with 350whp!!!!


Update:


Got the DCCD switches installed, and have the Aquamist system all tested and ready to go. I actually set it to flow as low as it could and went out for a drive. I just let it spray with using the break-in map and it made a difference! After just a few pulls, it started to pull harder. Before, the ECU was pulling some timing right between 4k and 5k, and I could watch the live data and see the timing drop right there. With the water spraying, the ECU added that timing back in, and I could watch it stay steady through the pull up to 5k. I'm just running straight water right now for the testing. I was having trouble finding Methanol locally, so i ended up buying pre-mixed 50/50 online from Devil's Own. After shipping it's like $13 a gallon. Once I find a good deal on Methanol, I will mix my own at home.


Pics:


I took the factory switch holder and lowered it by adding some spacers to space it down from the console piece. I then cut a piece of aluminum to sit on top, and cut the holes the right size for the OEM sti DCCD switches.




Test fitting the switches




Painted the aluminum black, and purposely held the tip way back to apply it in a textured effect. It looks really good and matches the textured plastic really well!




Installed in the car, and looking really OEM!




I taped a spare water line and jet to the windshield to test the sytem and watch it spray. Once all the testing was done, I hooked back up to the water line that runs down to the I/C outlet.




The water tank with the trunk open



I just have a few things to finish up tomorrow and put 150 more miles on it, and then heading to the dyno on Thursday! I will swap in an AEM 3.5 Bar map sensor once I get there and also have to get all the water out of the tanks and fill it with the 50/50.

Stay tuned for the grand finale! I will have pics from the dyno day!
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Old 05-18-2010, 03:02 PM   #205
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So where's those dyno numbers?!?!?!
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Old 05-18-2010, 06:08 PM   #206
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Yeah sorry, I'm a little bummed out right now and didn't want to post until I had good news. I had a fun time at Maxwell Power, but it was a really crappy day at the same time. Let me list it out.

1. Aquamist system was not working in time for the dyno tune, so I obviously couldn't tune for it. I spent a ton of time on the phone with Howerton Engineering trying to troubleshoot before the dyno day, because it wasn't working consistently while driving the car and testing. He even overnighted a part and shipped it to Maxwell Power so I could install it before the tune, but it didn't fix the problem. So we decided to just do the pump gas tune and I would come back for the meth tune after it was fixed.

2. During the pump gas tune we were having problems with the idle not being smooth and it wanting to die when letting off the gas and letting it fall back to idle. It had these problems before the tune, but I figured it would be fixed with the tuning. There were adjustments to help the wanting to stall, but they weren't available on the Cobb software for some reason. Dom showed me what he needed to adjust in Open Source software, but no luck on the Cobb stuff. It was too late to call Cobb, so we were kinda stuck. We cheated by adjusting the throttle stop to crack the throttle plate open a hair. This fixed the issue, but it still was a little rough at idle.

3. Tuning was going well and was over 270 whp after the 2nd pull, but after more pulls and adjustments, we just weren't making the power that we should. The pump tune was running 18 psi by the end and was just a hair under 300 whp and a little less torque. Dom thought my combination of parts should be making more than that though. We investigated a ton of things and brainstormed, but couldn't really come up with anything. He did mention that he thought the exhaust cams might need to be retarted a little, but it was 8:30 at night and we were out of time. So 18 psi on a Dom2.5R with 9.0:1 CR, ported heads, 264 cams ect. couldn't make over 300 on pump....something isn't right, but were not sure

4. For some reason my tail lights quit working and I was unaware. I got pulled over on 405 trying to head home. The cop let me drive to the next exit to buy a fuse and maybe fix the problem. Nothing was open, so I got back on I-90 and tried North Bend. Still no fuses to be found anywhere, so I decide to just try to make it home to Ellensburg and I get pulled over again. This cop was a dick, but let me drive the rest of the way home in the slow lane with my hazards on. Only problem is the hazard switch is tucked inside the dash behind my gauge cluster. The cop is really annoyed at this news, but watches me while I take the dash apart to get to the hazard switch. I'm really having a bad day by this point

5. Almost home and decide to stop and get gas. Once off the freeway, I hear this awfull growling whining sound coming from the engine. I investigate at the gas station and find the noise is coming from my brand new, bought from the subaru dealer, freshly powder coated and painted Alternator. Now I'm really pissed.



The good news:

The tail lights are fixed!

The Aquamist system is fixed and ready to rock and roll!

The alternator is fixed! The rear bearing was totally craptastic and ready to fall apart. I got a new bearing pressed on and it's perfect again!

Even though it didn't make as much power as it should, the car hauls ass and holds the power it makes all the way to redline of just under 8k. Dom didn't run it all the way out because we were more occupied with trying to make more power. The graph was really pretty and was a flat line all the way over. I forgot to ask for a print out because it was really late, and it wasn't really finished if you know what I mean. On the street the car feels really linear and quite powerful even out of boost. You step on it and the car moves pretty good before the boost hits, and when it does it really rips and feels just like the graph where the power doesn't taper off at all.

I also got to go for a ride in Craig's (shop co-owner) low mileage RS making 385 on pump gas. He reved it up to almost redline and side stepped the clutch. We launched so hard my vision went blury from the g-forces. It gave me a shot of adreneline better than sky diving. We then took it out on the street for some sideways action. Those Albin gears and aftermarket diffs were pretty amazing. The whole car is just bad ass. It made my day!!!



Where I'm at now:

Along with the rough idle and hunting AFR's at idle, it has a wierd spot at very light cruise where your almost on decel but not quite off the gas and not accellerating either, it will buck and jerk a bit and the AFR's are swinging from lean to rich. This problem was there before, but there again I thought the tune would fix it. Dom tried, but something is not right. We think there might be a problem with the injectors, which sucks because I bought used Deatschwerks 750's and then paid to have them sent in to Deatschwerks to check them out. They sent them back saying they are perfect with a full color sheet with all the test they performed and that they are 99.1% flow balanced. They are all within a couple CC's of eachother. A problem with the injectors does make sense though, because where I'm having the problems is at very low flow rates. Watching the live data has shown 5% or less duty cycle. It idles at 2% and while cruising it has problems at anything 5% or less. Anything above that the car runs great. So I'm thinking that they just have poor performance in that 0-5% duty cycle range. I'm going to swap the stock injectors back in and flash a map to run them to see if the issue with idle and cruise is gone.

As far as making less power than we thought, I'm waiting to hear back from Dom on that. He is going to pull the card on the cam specs and do some figuring and come up with a game plan.

So once I get the driveability and idle issue solved, I will go back and try to make more power on pump, and then do the Meth tune.

Not really the outcome I was looking for after all that meticulous planning, buying nothing but quality parts, hard work and obsessing over every last detail. I tried so hard, didn't take any short cuts and assembled everything with surgical precision, and this is what I get. I'm kinda bummed, but also working through it at the same time. I also can't say enough good things about Dom and Craig at Maxwell Power. They did everything in there power to help me and Dom even stayed way late trying to work the issues.

This is my report.
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Old 05-18-2010, 06:19 PM   #207
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I wouldn't be upset at all with those results!

You basically built everything in the car with new parts, every nut and bolt was turned, and those are some very minor issues. With all the work you did, it's a very impressive result, and sounds like there's just going to be a little more diagnosing and wrenching to make it perfect.

Can't wait to see what it puts out on meth
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Old 05-18-2010, 06:35 PM   #208
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Thanks for the encouragement, I needed it.

I guess it isn't all that bad considereing everything that was done to the car. I'm also glad that I was able to fix all the other issues already, so things are looking up. I'm sure it's just a matter of time before things are sorted.

I'm going to send the DW750's to WitchHunter for testing. Dom said they are good about looking for problems if you tell them what was happening with the car. I'm curious to find out if that is indeed the problem. I'm heading out to the shop right now to pull the injectors and swap the stockers in.
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Old 05-18-2010, 07:49 PM   #209
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Sorry to hear about your problems. Sounds like your problems may be similar to mine. I hope we both get everything taken care of soon and can compare results.

1) I also have problem getting the thing to idle and always wants to die when getting off throttle. I didn't have this problem when I was running my 18g. I thought it was a problem with the 272 bc cams. I tried a local guy for sti cams. Installed STI cams and still have problem idleing. I need to look elsewhere.

2) I can't seem to get away from oil leaks. And when i get off throttle after hitting it hard and engine break I get a ton of smoke coming out the exhaust. this only happens when after WOT and then engine braking. Maybe a bad valve seal (installed new ones during build process)

3) I also think I am not making the power I want (360 whp) but i havent been able to go on the dyno because of oil leaks.

4) I thought i had everything taken care of and started going to the midwest suby shoot out. Only to find my power steering is leaking badly. then found out that it was cracked. and I didnt end up going.

5) I still smell oil burning but it can be the PS fluid all over the engine bay. I tried my best to clean it up.
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Old 05-18-2010, 10:25 PM   #210
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Congrats on the awesome build man! I have a 97LGT that I am currently working on (doing suspension mods first, motor comes last) and it has deffinantly put me back in gear after seeing your car. Good luck getting all the bugs sorted out, just dont let it get you down. The fun is in the journey, not the destination.. Some day I hope to have something remotely good looking as yours has came out to be!
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Old 05-18-2010, 11:14 PM   #211
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Your car is still my dream car... make you feel any better?... lol

seriously though, what you've done with that car is amazing, and if what you were doing was so easy, then everyone would have done it... just keep pluggin away and im sure with your skill/knowledge/drive, you'll be at the results you're looking for..

Keep up the good work!
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Old 05-20-2010, 01:09 AM   #212
scoobiedude 66
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keep going dude you got it i believe in you!!! but seriously my first car was a 99 legacy GT and thats partly why i love what your doing so much so keep going!!!
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Old 05-20-2010, 01:49 AM   #213
morrocco88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NITROS View Post
Sorry to hear about your problems. Sounds like your problems may be similar to mine. I hope we both get everything taken care of soon and can compare results.
That is one thing that hasn't plagued me, I haven't had a single leak anywhere, I really feel for you NITROS. What injectors are you using and are they different from when you were running the 18G?


Quote:
Originally Posted by redlegacygt View Post
Your car is still my dream car... make you feel any better?... lol

seriously though, what you've done with that car is amazing, and if what you were doing was so easy, then everyone would have done it... just keep pluggin away and im sure with your skill/knowledge/drive, you'll be at the results you're looking for..

Keep up the good work!
Thanks man! I will get it all sorted out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scoobiedude 66 View Post
keep going dude you got it i believe in you!!! but seriously my first car was a 99 legacy GT and thats partly why i love what your doing so much so keep going!!!
Thanks! Yeah, the 2nd Gen Legacy is by far the sexiest car ever made IMHO

Quote:
Originally Posted by IndianaBD6 View Post
Congrats on the awesome build man! I have a 97LGT that I am currently working on (doing suspension mods first, motor comes last) and it has deffinantly put me back in gear after seeing your car. Good luck getting all the bugs sorted out, just dont let it get you down. The fun is in the journey, not the destination.. Some day I hope to have something remotely good looking as yours has came out to be!
Thanks! Well when you've been on as long a journey as I have, you don't feel like enjoying the journey anymore, especially when you have a wife that is ready for all the insanity to be done for a while

Last edited by morrocco88; 05-20-2010 at 02:29 AM.
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Old 05-20-2010, 02:18 AM   #214
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I pulled the DW750's out today and will send them out for testing. I decided I wasn't going to swap in the stockers and test, because I don't feel like swapping injectors twice and I don't really have a stock size MAF housing for the map to run the stock injectors. I got crazy and bought some ID1000's from Maxwell Power and I'm just going to put those in. I did some research and found that they have amazing low flow performance and usually idle better than stock! This way I'm only switching injectors once and might get better than stock performance. I will also have enough room for E85 if and when they sell it closer to me. If the DW750's come back and test fine, I will just sell them and make some money back.

While I'm waiting for my new injectors to show up, I decided to dive into the finish work that is left. I started the custom/hybrid trim piece for the wrx cluster in the Legacy dash. It is pretty involved and will be a lot of work, but should look factory when it's done. I'm also working on the boost gauge mount on the steering column. It will have the Turbo XS knock light/shift light molded to the side of it.

I will have pics up soon.
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Old 05-21-2010, 12:59 AM   #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morrocco88 View Post
That is one thing that hasn't plagued me, I haven't had a single leak anywhere, I really feel for you NITROS. What injectors are you using and are they different from when you were running the 18G?
I'm running DW 780 cc injectors they were perfectly fine when i was running the 18g. I pretty much havent done anything with the car since last saturday. I just needed a break, i worked on it every day last week trying to get it ready for the shoot out.
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Old 05-21-2010, 01:15 AM   #216
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Good work on not leaking... I had a few leaks
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Old 05-25-2010, 03:12 PM   #217
scoobiedude 66
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update?
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Old 05-26-2010, 08:55 PM   #218
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Well.....I got the ID1000 injectors installed, flashed a new map for them today and it runs the same . I will have the Deatchswerks 750cc injectors up for sale soon to try and offset some cost. I guess at least now I will be set for E85 when it comes to my town.

After talking with Dom at Maxwell Power today, he still thinks we need to change the cam timing a bit. He originally thought this, but also thought there might be a problem with something else like the injectors and so he set me to work troubleshooting. Now that the injectors are confirmed not a problem and everything else checks out, it's making more sense that the cam timing needs some work. It all seems to add up....the low 10" of vacuum at idle, rough idle, and roughness at very light cruise, along with lower power numbers than I should have, seems that the cam overlap/timing needs to be changed.


NEW GAME PLAN:

I ordered a set of those new Crawford cam timing adjuster idler pulleys, and we will use those to get things dialed in. I will install them and do some adjusting at home and work with Dom over the phone to get it close. I can also see if it helps the idle and light cruise right away. I will then take the car over there on Friday June 4th, to Dyno tune it and dial everything in. I will get there early in the morning so I have time to dial in the cam timing before the afternoon dyno session. Then hopefully the car will make more power on pump gas, and I can also get the Meth tune done now that it's working perfectly! I'm looking forward to seeing the full potential of my setup.
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Old 05-27-2010, 05:56 PM   #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morrocco88 View Post
Well.....I got the ID1000 injectors installed, flashed a new map for them today and it runs the same . I will have the Deatchswerks 750cc injectors up for sale soon to try and offset some cost. I guess at least now I will be set for E85 when it comes to my town.

After talking with Dom at Maxwell Power today, he still thinks we need to change the cam timing a bit. He originally thought this, but also thought there might be a problem with something else like the injectors and so he set me to work troubleshooting. Now that the injectors are confirmed not a problem and everything else checks out, it's making more sense that the cam timing needs some work. It all seems to add up....the low 10" of vacuum at idle, rough idle, and roughness at very light cruise, along with lower power numbers than I should have, seems that the cam overlap/timing needs to be changed.


NEW GAME PLAN:

I ordered a set of those new Crawford cam timing adjuster idler pulleys, and we will use those to get things dialed in. I will install them and do some adjusting at home and work with Dom over the phone to get it close. I can also see if it helps the idle and light cruise right away. I will then take the car over there on Friday June 4th, to Dyno tune it and dial everything in. I will get there early in the morning so I have time to dial in the cam timing before the afternoon dyno session. Then hopefully the car will make more power on pump gas, and I can also get the Meth tune done now that it's working perfectly! I'm looking forward to seeing the full potential of my setup.

Sorry to hear about the update. Let me know how those idles turn out as I am interested in them.

As for my update
Quote:
I got rid of my BC272 cams and installed sti cams. Idle is much better than it was with the 272 and finally no damn misfire codes. I think i have the oil leaks taken care of but i will do a final assessment after i power wash the bottom of the car. not sure if its old oil or new oil. but at least its no longer smoking from the hood area.

I do have another problem, not sure what the culprit is. Under hard acceleration it seems like it smokes out the exhaust. WHen i stop accelerating it smokes ALOT. I hope it is not valve seals or guides, or a piston ring seating badly. It never smoked like that with the 18g.

The smoke looks white as if it was coolant but I do not have a loss of coolant. I can smell oil burning as well but this can be the spill burning off.

I will be doing a leak down test this weekend. and take off teh exhaust and intake manifold to check for leaking valve seals.
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Old 05-29-2010, 11:28 PM   #220
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^^^Interesting that your 272 cams made your idle crappy. I know larger cams will give you a little lope at idle, but I've also seen some cars with 272's that idle normally.

My cams were Crower 272's that came in the "built" heads I bought used. I had Maxwell Power go through them to make sure everything was good to go, and they found a bunch of stuff wrong with them. We had to surface them, clean up the valve seats and replace some bent valves. I decided to replace all the valves and sent the cams to Delta Camshaft to have them ground down to 264's, because I wanted more mid range than top end.

I'm not sure why my cam timing would be off, but the heads were surfaced, the head gaskets are .040" thick, and I just lined up the factory timing marks when I put the belt on. I'll find out real soon though once i get the timing adjusters from crawford. I'll let you know what happens.
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Old 05-30-2010, 06:19 PM   #221
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NO more smoking for me. Turned out to be my crappy catch can. It did not flow enough causing blowby either through the piston rings or turbo seal. Removed it entirely for now and am investing in a air oil seperator.
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Old 06-05-2010, 01:49 AM   #222
scoobiedude 66
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update??
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Old 06-05-2010, 03:29 AM   #223
morrocco88
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Well......It's definately the cams, and instead of going to the dyno today, I pulled the motor out.

It ran better with advancing the exhaust cams and playing with things, but it's just not 100% right. I don't understand why they are so far off when they were ground for my motor. They were originally Crower 272's, but then I sent them in to Delta to have them ground down to 264's for the stroker.

The only real way to get the cam timing perfect is with degree wheels and a dial indicator ect. I just want it right, so the motor had to come out to get this figured out. It's on the motor stand and the cams are coming out to be profiled and double checked. I will see if these can be dialed in, and if not, I will ditch them and go with something else. I guess Kelford makes some 264 grinds that are designed for the stroker. That would be cool to just put them in, line up the factory timing marks and be good to go, but they aint cheap. I don't really want to drop more cash on cams when I already did.

It was really lame to have to pull everything apart, but at least now I know what the problem is.

I will update as I figure this out.
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Old 06-06-2010, 10:15 PM   #224
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I went with STI cams. I like it much better. I dont get CEL for misfires anymore and that makes me much happier the car drives great. I still havent done any 22psi tuning yet. I got my stock ecu boost dialed and I am trying to convert my utec tune to the stock ecu tune.
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Old 06-18-2010, 01:07 AM   #225
kenikh
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Member#: 212677
Join Date: May 2009
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: King County East, WA
Vehicle:
1999 Forester S
Bone stock...for now

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This thread is awesome. Makes me want to gut my Forester and go for the big time.
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