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Old 07-12-2009, 05:45 PM   #26
Meatbawl
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^yes... and it's pointless. I highly recommend NOT getting one

...was more of a PITA to install than the new shortblock
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Old 07-12-2009, 06:02 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meatbawl View Post
^yes... and it's pointless. I highly recommend NOT getting one

...was more of a PITA to install than the new shortblock
Was just curious. Looked like nothing I've seen before.
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Old 07-14-2009, 01:05 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meatbawl View Post
Updated! timing belt mark placement and routing diagram
Are you sure that's right? Guess I might have made a mistake

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...17&postcount=4
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Old 07-14-2009, 08:21 AM   #29
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Default Timing Belt Brand?

I have a new timing belt for my 02 wrx. It is made by Mitsuboshi, which I was told was an OE supplier to Subaru, however when I went to the dealer yesterday, their timing belts were made in USA, with the Subaru name on them.

The belt I have is made it Thailand, by Mitsuboshi. I called Mitsuboshi, and they said they were the OE supplier, but they did not say if they supplied the timing belts. I just removed a mitsuboshi alternator belt off my car.

Does anyone know if this is a good belt? Should I use it, or go buy a USA made belt? It appears to be high quality.
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Old 07-14-2009, 09:21 AM   #30
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That company has been around since 1919! Check there web sight:
http://www.mitsuboshi.co.jp/english/
I don't think U would have any problems with it.
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Old 07-14-2009, 09:23 AM   #31
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Forcedinduction: One of my Subarus has had a Mitsuboshi belt on it for at least 30k...pulled it off 2 weeks ago to replace all the cam seals..it was mint still I also put a new Mitsuboshi belt on the new shortblock shown in these pics above... no issues so far (only 2000 miles).


Rick-I: pretty sure it's right... it's how the Subaru manual shows it, and how I've done it the past 6 times. Then again, as long as your mark is within a 1/2 a tooth, all that really matters is that all the notches on the pulleys line up exactly. I always spin the motor a few times once it's all together to make sure the pulleys still all line up perfectly.
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Old 07-14-2009, 09:59 PM   #32
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Old 07-22-2009, 08:41 AM   #33
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Default Finished my Belt

Well, I finished my timing belt install. Everything went well. New mitsuboshi belt, all new idlers, and tensioner. A dab of blue lock tight on all the important bolts, and torqued to spec. My car is running great.

I also replaced my expansion valve, which I think I could have done it much faster if I had not removed the entire heat and AC unit, and entire dash!. I think I could have accessed it by removing the blower motor unit and glovebox.??

I refilled it 50/50 with prestone, and added subaru coolant conditioner. Then charged my AC.

I used tap water with my coolant. We have excellent water where I am at. Does it matter that I did not use distilled??
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Old 07-22-2009, 08:48 AM   #34
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^ I've always used direct tap water every time without issues. Actually I know nobody in our local Subaru club that uses distilled

What issue was your expansion valve giving you?
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Old 07-22-2009, 09:09 AM   #35
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Default Expansion Valve

My A/C, when I first turned it on, would blow cold for about 20 seconds, and then slowly go warm.

The expansion valve was stuck, and when I turned on the air the compressor pulled the low side down, boiled off the refrigerant creating the cold air for about 20 seconds. Then the flow was impeded by the stuck exp. valve, so no more evaporation could occur in the evaporator.

I replaced it and my air is working great so far. That is my diagnosis, for what it's worth.
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Old 07-22-2009, 10:05 AM   #36
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Nothing good can come of this and it borders on plain stupid. Line the marks up before you take the belt off and DO NOT turn the crankshaft with no timing belt.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Forcedinduction View Post
Ok fair enough. So just so I am clear:

I can take the belt off at any crank angle.

Upon removing the belt, the force of the valve springs pushing the lifters against the cam lobes will cause the cams to turn, and put the valves in a closed (safe from piston) position.

Before putting on the new belt, I must first turn the crank until its mark ligns up (I can turn the cranks because the valves are all closed).

Only then can I turn the cams to their marks, and only in the order which you describe.

It seems to me that if you tried to turn the cams to their marks, and THEN turn the crank to its mark, the piston could strike one of the opened valves. Correct?

So order is everything.

Thanks.
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Old 07-22-2009, 11:04 AM   #37
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Default Stupid?

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Nothing good can come of this and it borders on plain stupid. Line the marks up before you take the belt off and DO NOT turn the crankshaft with no timing belt.
I did line the marks up perfectly before removing my belt. It just makes things easier and reduces the overall risk of error. It is "by the book".

If you read exactly what I said, it makes perfect sense. I was trying to clearly understand why Meatball said it would not matter what crank angle you took it off.

I believe in fully understanding what is taking place when I work on my vehicle, not just following directions with no comprehension of what is physically taking place between the moving parts. That can get you in big trouble, and this is a mistake many novice mechanics often make.

If all of the valves are closed, and you confirm this, then you can rotate the crank to any angle you want and it will not strike the valves!!! Think about it.

What you do not want to do is rotate the crank, while one of the cams has the valve(s) pushed open. You also do not want to turn the two cams on one cylinder head symultaneously, in the wrong directions. This will cause the valves to strike one another as they open.

Don't just say something is "stupid", without explaining exactly why it is stupid. Defend your argument.
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Old 07-22-2009, 11:58 AM   #38
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How are you going to confirm that all the valves are closed with the 4 cams at random positions?

Quote:
STUPID : marked by or resulting from unreasoned thinking or acting : senseless <a stupid decision>
Like just removing the belt and then rotating everything into position

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forcedinduction View Post
If all of the valves are closed, and you confirm this, then you can rotate the crank to any angle you want and it will not strike the valves!!! Think about it.


Don't just say something is "stupid", without explaining exactly why it is stupid. Defend your argument.
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Old 07-22-2009, 01:03 PM   #39
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Like I said. I took my belt off with the #1 at TDC. It is the best way to do it.

The intake and exhaust valves are never fully open at the same time, they have a small amount of overlap but that is it.

When you remove the belt at any position, either the intake is open, or the exhaust is open, but both are not fully open.

As soon as you remove the belt, the valve lifters which are pushing on the cam (lifted valve) will cause that particular cam to rotate, thus closing the valve.

You can verify that all of the valves are closed by feel. You will feel resistance in the cam as soon as it begins to lift a valve. On the non lift side of the cam lobe, there will be no resistance at all when you gently rotate the cam.

If you know what you are doing it is fairly obvious. What you do not want to do, is rotate the cam until you feel the valve lifting considerably, and then rotate the other cam on that head in the wrong direction, until you feel it lifting its valve(s) and then strike the two valves together.

You also do no want to lift a valve on a piston that is at TDC.

There are alot of things to keep in mind, that is why in my opinion it is best to remove the belt at TDC. That being said, you also do not always have to do things in the exact order the book tells you.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, just exchanging info thats all.
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Old 07-22-2009, 02:15 PM   #40
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Like I said. I took my belt off with the #1 at TDC. It is the best way to do it.
So are you agreeing with me that it borders on plain stupid to do it any other way???
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Old 07-22-2009, 03:28 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forcedinduction View Post
My A/C, when I first turned it on, would blow cold for about 20 seconds, and then slowly go warm.

The expansion valve was stuck, and when I turned on the air the compressor pulled the low side down, boiled off the refrigerant creating the cold air for about 20 seconds. Then the flow was impeded by the stuck exp. valve, so no more evaporation could occur in the evaporator.

I replaced it and my air is working great so far. That is my diagnosis, for what it's worth.
Thanks for this info, I've been having a problem with my newly recharged AC and new AC compressor going warm and cold while driving
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Old 07-22-2009, 03:28 PM   #42
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I guess my doing this at least 6 times or more in the past 8 months is considered stupid

Like I said.. you can line it all up if you feel that is going to lessen the chance of anything happening... but consider this: when the heads are off the motor, all of the valves are closed. This proves that when there is no tension on the valves, that means none are sticking out toward the pistons. So when you release the timing belt tensioner, the ones that are open, close. I guarantee that if you line everything up, and THEN release the tensioner, the pulleys will rotate anyway.. meaning you just wasted time lining everything up. Lining everything up will not harm anything, so I advise anyone in doubt, or skeptical to do so. Everyone has their own way of doing things. All I can post up or recommend is the way I have done it, which has been successful each time.
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Old 07-22-2009, 05:35 PM   #43
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Did you actually do it this way or did you put #1 at TDC?

You could probably do it this way but why take a chance having to rotate all the cams and the crankshaft around ( reading, observing and remembering all the precautions) to time it when it will happen automatically if you put #1 at TDC to start with. This is what I said was stupid.

If you can't read the manual where it says to align the timing belt with the marks before removal how are you going to read which way to turn each cam?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meatbawl View Post
I guess my doing this at least 6 times or more in the past 8 months is considered stupid

Like I said.. you can line it all up if you feel that is going to lessen the chance of anything happening... but consider this: when the heads are off the motor, all of the valves are closed. This proves that when there is no tension on the valves, that means none are sticking out toward the pistons. So when you release the timing belt tensioner, the ones that are open, close. I guarantee that if you line everything up, and THEN release the tensioner, the pulleys will rotate anyway.. meaning you just wasted time lining everything up. Lining everything up will not harm anything, so I advise anyone in doubt, or skeptical to do so. Everyone has their own way of doing things. All I can post up or recommend is the way I have done it, which has been successful each time.
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Old 07-22-2009, 10:05 PM   #44
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Dear God. Now we are accusing one another of not being able to read. Let's just drop it for crying out loud. Do it however you want. Just understand what is taking place. Don't just follow directions blindly.
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Old 07-22-2009, 10:42 PM   #45
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I think what rick-l is trying to get across here, in his overly exasperated way, is that there is a chance of getting the crankshaft out of position if you do not set all the marks before you remove the belt. And, that the crank should not be rotated until the belt is back on with all the marks aligned. Yes, the right bank cams will be on the ramps of the lobes, and the spring pressure of the valves will rotate those cams slightly when the belt tension is released. And yes, all the valves will be in there closed positions at that time. This should be painfully obvious by now. But lets keep this thread an intelligent discussion of the subject and not spin into a flame war! I have learned a bunch from this and I will be doing this job myself now. I figure I can save at least $500 this way.

Only one more question: Whats the torque spec on the crank pulley bolt?

Thanks!

Karl

Last edited by WRB_WRX; 07-22-2009 at 10:52 PM.
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Old 07-23-2009, 08:35 AM   #46
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127 N-M, or 94 ft.-lb. per my 02 service manual, It says to oil the crankshaft pulley bolt seat and thread before tightening. I think it reduces friction so that it torques properly.

Last edited by Forcedinduction; 07-23-2009 at 08:41 AM.
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Old 07-23-2009, 10:02 AM   #47
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OK... Thanks!
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Old 07-23-2009, 10:59 AM   #48
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I'll change the write-up to show lining everything up first. If it's a precaution to avoid having valves meet pistons, there's no harm doing it. We can then skip the step of lining up the crank again, so it'll work out. Thanks for the added torque specs, I will update the write-up this evening
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Old 07-23-2009, 11:15 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forcedinduction View Post
127 N-M, or 94 ft.-lb. per my 02 service manual, It says to oil the crankshaft pulley bolt seat and thread before tightening. I think it reduces friction so that it torques properly.
Again the manual is your friend.

You are supposed too tighten it to 33 ft-lbs and then tighten it to 94 ft-lbs while observing it rotates through 45 degrees.

I would guess this procedure is based on warranty service history.
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Old 07-23-2009, 11:49 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rick-l View Post
Again the manual is your friend.

You are supposed too tighten it to 33 ft-lbs and then tighten it to 94 ft-lbs while observing it rotates through 45 degrees.

I would guess this procedure is based on warranty service history.
Yes, I agree. This is done to make sure that the pulley has fully seated on the nose of the crank -and- to check that the bolt is not stretched, if your reusing the old one. I plan on getting a new one.
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