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Old 07-27-2009, 12:31 AM   #51
wobbletop
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So if you installed the drivers side intake cam exactly 180 degrees out of phase (got the markings confused) what would actually happen? Would the valves collide? How much damage would be done?

I guess a compression test would determine if there was real damage?

Just askin.
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Old 07-27-2009, 07:17 AM   #52
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/\This I don't know.. I have a spare set of 2.0 heads in the garage...if I can track down a pair of cam pulleys I'll do some experimenting . I'll post pics if I do.
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Old 07-27-2009, 09:57 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wobbletop View Post
So if you installed the drivers side intake cam exactly 180 degrees out of phase (got the markings confused) what would actually happen? Would the valves collide? How much damage would be done?

I guess a compression test would determine if there was real damage?

Just askin.
180 deg. out intake cam = The intake valves would be open on the power stroke of that bank. The intake valves would be fully open as the exhaust valves start to open. And the intake valves would be closing with the exhaust valves going to fully open on that bank. A good chance of bent valves if they hit. If U have a stock cam they might just miss each other. "Meaty" will have to verify this. BUT, if your running a cam with increased lift and duration, thats trouble. Still it's not as bad as getting a cam 90 deg. out. Than the valves would be open at piston TDC!

I would do a leak down test. This will tell U exactly where the problem, if U have one, is.

Good Luck!

Last edited by WRB_WRX; 07-27-2009 at 10:39 AM.
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Old 08-29-2009, 12:28 AM   #54
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Bump for you - great write up.
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Old 08-29-2009, 01:13 AM   #55
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Can I turn cam gear pulleys in direction you have instructed as many times as I can without ruining anything?

Are people damaging valves by rotating cam gears in wrong direction? Is that the only reason why?
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Old 08-29-2009, 11:47 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gopsu View Post
Can I turn cam gear pulleys in direction you have instructed as many times as I can without ruining anything?

Are people damaging valves by rotating cam gears in wrong direction? Is that the only reason why?
Bump for answer?
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Old 08-30-2009, 01:05 AM   #57
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I know I rotated a few cams more than once or twice when doing this due to "missing the mark". When the pulley passed the alignment marks, I kept rotating it in the correct direction and tried again. I can only assume that rotating them in the wrong direction causes valve interference, as this is what the Subaru manual states also. Hope this helps
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Old 08-30-2009, 01:08 AM   #58
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Thanks for the reply.
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Old 08-31-2009, 06:06 PM   #59
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Thanks!! Great write up! I have never performed a timing belt install on any car before. Just followed every step in the write up as described. I spent over an hour putting the timing belt on myself without any extra hands. It wasnt really all that difficult at all, its just that I installed and recheck marks over and over and over. It would of been fine the first time I had the belt all lined up but I was just being super cautious and paranoid. Over that course of time... I ended up spinning the driver side cam gears over and over and over and over and over and over and ect...(in the correct direction) due to over shooting or it spinning itself back to closed valve. Did all the idlers, waterpump, thermostat, and drive belts.
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Old 08-31-2009, 06:18 PM   #60
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Thank you If you ever change one again, or whoever is reading this post decides to do this, use a 3/8" drive breaker bar instead of a standard 3/8" ratchet. This will allow complete directional control over the drivers side cam gear, preventing the gear from rotating itself. I hope I'm describing the tool correctly, here's a picture of the tool I'm talking about

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Old 09-03-2009, 12:06 PM   #61
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Thanks for the write up. Question though- on the driver's side cams, I know it damages the valves to rotate the cam gear pulleys the wrong direction, but does it do damage if they spin the wrong direction on their own?

I had the belt all in place and was going to secure the tensioner when some slack got in the belt and the top right cam spun on it's own in the wrong direction. It made a pretty loud clunk sound when it reached bottom.
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Old 09-03-2009, 12:46 PM   #62
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When the cam gear rotates on it's own, the valves are closing, so chances are pretty good that everything is just fine. I've had this happen a few times as well, with no consequence. From what I understand, forcing the gears in the wrong direction is what bends the valves.
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Old 09-03-2009, 01:23 PM   #63
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/\ Thanks. Just to be clear, you had the cam gear pulley rotates on it's own in the wrong direction and things were fine?
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Old 09-03-2009, 01:36 PM   #64
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Yes, I was using a standard ratchet the 1st 3 or so times that I did a timing belt change... and had everything linedup, and was putting the belt on, and the gear rotated since the ratchet only holds the gear in one direction. This is why I highly recommend getting the prybar I mentioned a few posts ago for the job, it allows complete control and you'll get it the 1st time every time
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Old 10-13-2009, 09:04 PM   #65
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this could be a wicked stupid question, but id rather ask and look like a moran than not and have something mess up big time.
so i do pretty much all the work on my car. but say i wanted a mechanic to do my timing belt. would he know what to do just cuz its a subaru? he is his own mechanic out of his house and went to school for it. but like turning gears the wrong way, so on and so forth. is this commem knolege for a mech. or what? like i said this could be a stupid question, and i could be doing a terrable job trying to explain. but any answer would be cool. thanks.
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Old 10-13-2009, 09:14 PM   #66
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I think different brands and models of engines have their own quirks and way of setting the timing. The concept is basically the same, get everything lined up correctly, and throw on the belt. But being that our valves are interferance, the average mechanic that is used to working on a Chevy may not consider this with a Subaru. I, by no means am saying that they are incapable, but that it could easily be overlooked by a non-Subaru mechanic. If you are doing the work on your own vehicle, and have the necessary tools on hand to do this task, I highly recommend doing it yourself. The write-up looks intimidating and a little confusing at first.. but if you follow it step-by-step and take your time, it's quite easy If you do decide to do it yourself, I try to answer any questions anyone may have.. don't hesitate to ask.

Meaty
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Old 10-13-2009, 09:41 PM   #67
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thanks alot meaty, suprised you answered so quickly, but i guess thats a good thing. what kind of belt do you recomend(brand)
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Old 10-13-2009, 11:15 PM   #68
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If it's someone you know, and not just "some guy", you could, so as not to insult his intelligence or abilities, offer up a copy of this guide as an insight to the quirks of Subies.

That said, this whole project looks much more intimidating than it really is. Read through, take a look under the hood, make sure you have all of your parts inline, take your time and work through it. If you find some point of ambiguity, ask around, find an answer. There are important points in the writeup, and what sources you can find online. When I did mine, I looked at every writeup I could find, and it seemed like they all matched up pretty good when it came to specifics. Don't be afraid to improvise when it comes to specific tools, like feeler gauges. I stacked several pieces of paper up, and measured with calipers to make sure I got the right spacing off of the timing belt.

I've done my own work on my cars for some time, from oil changes and such to even replacing a short block, and yeah, I've been around it growing up, but timing belts have always afeared me.

I was VERY afraid of doing this on my own, but I had no choice. When I got it done, I said a prayer, re-read the instructions, recalled everything that I had done, and turned the key.... It's been going strong for 20k, so, I'm thinking I did everything right.
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Old 10-14-2009, 12:13 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubr_Duky View Post
Don't be afraid to improvise when it comes to specific tools, like feeler gauges. I stacked several pieces of paper up, and measured with calipers to make sure I got the right spacing off of the timing belt.
I used a piece of paper from the guide itself. Folded it up a couple times and shoved it between the guide and belt. worked perfectly!
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Old 10-14-2009, 04:46 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goat630 View Post
what kind of belt do you recomend(brand)
Stick with OEM whenever possible, however, I have done a couple of timing belts recently where the owner brought a belt that came from NAPA (Continental brand), and the constructed quality was equal to that of OEM. The belt shown in this writeup is from the "Made in Japan" PCI kit off ebay. When going to forged internals or high performance, I would suggest going to a Gates Blue belt, or kevelar equivalent.
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Old 10-14-2009, 07:09 AM   #71
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so you wouldnt go with a stronger belt anyway? im not stock. im running stage2. i fell like if?when i do it that i should go with a stronger belt. just for safty sake.
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Old 10-14-2009, 07:33 AM   #72
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A lot of our local Subarus run stock belts or standard belts with 300+HP without issues. It's a matter of personal preference & how much you are willing to spend on a little added piece of mind
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Old 10-14-2009, 07:53 AM   #73
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so gates it is, lol. aloth it is only 100$ the ones i was looking at were close to 300$.

but now another real question. i have been reading the write up and i see and have printed the pic of the driverside cam pulley, and which way they have to be turn.

are the passanger side pulleys the same way? i do not remember reading that in the write up, but i could be missing it all together.

if they must be turned a certain way, am i CORRECT in saying that on the passenger side the top one will be turned counter clockwise and the lower will be turned clockwise. that would be opposite the drivers side.
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Old 10-14-2009, 08:51 AM   #74
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Spin the passenger side cam gears whichever direction you want without applying any force. These gears can be rotated and aligned with your pinky finger if you had to. They will also stay in place on their own for the most part.
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Old 10-14-2009, 09:49 AM   #75
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Great write up.
I'll do a turbo swap,dp,uppipe,ect, but this is tooo scary for me.
I'll take mine to DSG in Norwood when its time.
Phhuck dat shh*tt!
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