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Old 10-14-2009, 11:23 AM   #76
rkramer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ysidro View Post
Great write up.
I'll do a turbo swap,dp,uppipe,ect, but this is tooo scary for me.
I'll take mine to DSG in Norwood when its time.
Phhuck dat shh*tt!
seriously, it is EASY! much easier than an uppipe.
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Old 10-15-2009, 08:26 PM   #77
clkoontziii
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timing belts scare me too LOL

but Im doing it anyway. it cant be that bad
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Old 10-15-2009, 08:51 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkramer View Post
seriously, it is EASY! much easier than an uppipe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by clkoontziii View Post
timing belts scare me too LOL

but Im doing it anyway. it cant be that bad

I agree with these comments

The write-up looks very lengthy, but that is only because I tried to cover every single detail & doubt that could arise when doing this. I don't like to be vague with important details to a project like this!
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Old 10-16-2009, 12:38 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by Meatbawl View Post
The write-up looks very lengthy, but that is only because I tried to cover every single detail & doubt that could arise when doing this. I don't like to be vague with important details to a project like this!
hey meaty, do you want to make an edit in the write up? it makes it vastly easier to line up the belt if you extend the lines on the new belt down the side of the belt. The bottom two cam alignment marks are nearly impossible to see if you have marks on the top of the belt only. I actually ended up pulling the belt off to mark it after I had it entirely on just because I didn't 100% trust that i was exactly on the mark.
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Old 10-16-2009, 07:43 AM   #80
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Already edited that in last week when I read your post about it in another thread Thanks!


I plan to make a 5-10min youtube video on this writeup soon. Here in a few weeks I plan to take all this stuff back off the WRX and replace the belt with a Gates High Performance belt. Not that I need to, but I just sold my STI & kept the built motor that only has 3k miles on it. I've been slowly moving parts off that motor to this one. I also figured the video will show how easy this task can be.
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Old 10-18-2009, 03:52 PM   #81
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The mark on top is a bit off to the right from the center of the bolt. What would happen if the lower mark was pointing straigt up when the belt was put on? Does that equal 1/2 tooth off?
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Old 10-18-2009, 06:45 PM   #82
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the belt marks are what count, not the case markings. The service manual itself says that due to tolerances those are just guidelines.
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Old 10-18-2009, 09:38 PM   #83
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^I'd have to agree..

There will be a small amount of play in everything. Try slightly rotating the crank bolt to the left and to the right without much force. You may get it to move right onto the line without even moving any of the cam gears.
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Old 10-19-2009, 01:30 AM   #84
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So I read this whole thread just out of curiosity about how to do a timing belt service on a DOHC subie. All this talk of being only able to rotate the cam sprockets one direction to get them into alignment confused me. The valve travels through the same space regardless of which way it goes. Finally, I started thinking through it in terms of where each pair of valves had to be at the point timing is set.

What Subaru is actually telling you to do when they give you directions of rotation is to turn the cam in the direction of least rotation to get into the proper orientation. For instance, imagine the cam has spun around until the valve is closed. Imagine that the alignment mark is 30* clockwise of the point of clockwise valve lift. If we turn the cam clockwise to line it up, it simply lifts the valve up a bit and then you come to a stop at the mark. However, if we decided to ignore the manual and turn counter-clockwise, you'd actually lift the valve to full lift and then let it drop some again before arriving at the correct orientation.

Subaru must have sat down and figured out that if you preform some complex sequence of turning the cams the long way round there's a way to get the valves to clash. Obviously, this must be VERY uncommon or else valves would be getting bent left and right when the spring tension "snaps" the cam around past the alignment mark.
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Old 10-19-2009, 10:41 AM   #85
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Simply don't use a ratcheting socket and spring tension won't snap the cam
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Old 10-20-2009, 04:44 PM   #86
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Great write up meaty! Perfect timing b/c I'm about to do my timing as well and after reading this write up, it gave me more confidence in doing this myself. Seems pretty straight forward.
But I do have a question:
I plan on replacing the cam seals and the crank/oil seal. I've searched and didn't find any install/replace for those. Do I simply remove the crank sprocket and the cam gears and replace the seals? or there's more to that? I'm assuming I have to drain my engine oil first?
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Old 10-20-2009, 06:01 PM   #87
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I can't say exactly when I'll have time to shoot the instructional video for this, but I plan to hopefully do so within a month. That will give even slightest of doubting wrench spinners the confidence

Everytime I've replaced cam seals, it's been on a motor on a stand. I found that putting them on when bolting the cam into the head was the easiest, just slide them on the cam, bolt it down and then put all the caps on. This is probably not the way to do it if the motor is in the car. Purely a guess, but I would imagine that removing the crank sprocket and cam gears would be the way to go. I have a set of small hook puller "screwdrivers" I bought from Harbor Freight for $2 that seem to be able to pull them out. Here's what they look like:


But doing so will ruin the old ones, but heck, if you're replacing them, no big deal right? You'll have to find something to use to install the new ones with a mallet. I have replaced 1 cam seal this way. I used a cap off of a gasoline canister... lined it up to the cam seal and lightly tapped it in place with a rubber mallet. Not sure what it would take for the crank seal. I had my oil pump off (10 bolts or so), opened up my bench-vise a bit.. lined up the oil seal in the opening of the vice with the oil pump face down, and tapped the seal out from the inside with a large screwdriver.

Hope any of this helps
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Old 10-21-2009, 11:44 AM   #88
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Excellent write up.

Got me through my timing belt install in about 2 hours
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Old 10-21-2009, 02:23 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by Subies View Post
I plan on replacing the cam seals and the crank/oil seal. I've searched and didn't find any install/replace for those. Do I simply remove the crank sprocket and the cam gears and replace the seals? or there's more to that? I'm assuming I have to drain my engine oil first?
Are they leaking?

I haven't heard of anyone doing this. You see it recomended in every timing belt thread but it is easier to type than to do it.

That and change the oil pump while your in there?
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Old 10-21-2009, 10:56 PM   #90
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Are they leaking?

I haven't heard of anyone doing this. You see it recomended in every timing belt thread but it is easier to type than to do it.

That and change the oil pump while your in there?
I'm 95% sure that they are not leaking. Haven't opened up the timing covers, so not quite sure. I did stick my hand down there and there was a very very thin layer of oil (grease?) on the bottom of the cover. I'm sure it's just dirt/gunk/debris/etc.
I personally dont want to change the seals b/c i heard it's such a pita to do. But i've also heard alot from other users that they'll give out eventually...and most of them haven't hit 80K miles yet. So I think i'm fortunate that I dont have to replace it yet and I also dont want to take my chances. I figured that while i'm at it, why not.
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Old 10-21-2009, 11:36 PM   #91
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Thank you for a great write up. Couple of questions:

- would you recommend getting any of the Subaru special tools for this procedure?

- also, would you advise to replace water pump? any shots of doing it?

thanks again.
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Old 10-22-2009, 09:57 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redrexmeister View Post
- also, would you advise to replace water pump? any shots of doing it?
Although tons of people recommend it, a suby engine destroying a water pump is fairly rare. it happens, but not that often. When I did my belt I had a new water pump on hand, but based on the condition of the one that was in there, I felt it was probably better not to risk a leak and leave that one it place. (Bearings felt VERY smooth, almost better than the new one!)

I've never had good luck with coolant things on a car, they always seem to leak the first time. I did NOT want to find a leaking water pump after I get everything buttoned up!
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Old 10-23-2009, 04:45 PM   #93
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Ok so.. Just putting my engine together (new axis motor) to install in my car thats been sitting for ever.... And I would like to say THANKS!!!!! this is just what I needed ... there should be a sticky for this one!.. Awesome. Only thing I can add is when you are putting on the timing belt use some hand clamps to hold the belt on the gear... and use your knee on the bottow drivers side (EX) sprocket to hold it in place.. Worked awesome! Thanks for those to bits from Ron at axis...

Bon
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Old 10-23-2009, 07:07 PM   #94
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You're welcome. I can't wait to redo this thing and make pictures that make more sense. I've finally learned how to use the Macro setting on my camera (I'm a tard when it comes to cameras ). I don't know if you notice it or not, but I decided to make it a writeup and start taking pics after I already had most of the stuff put back together. I reversed a few steps, but it was all kinda thrown together with the pics I took backwards. I'll have to try the hand clamp trick when I do this again soon, but I don't know if holding the bottom gear with the knee will be very easy when the motor is installed in the car

Thanks!
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Old 10-24-2009, 02:44 PM   #95
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Hey Metbawl awesome write-up. Gonna be doing this in a week or two. I got some questions though, and if this is the wrong place to put them please let me know I'll delete the post and put it elsewhere (new to forums and search didn't help):

I've got 2000 impreza outback sport (2.2l) and I don't know maintenance history of water pump or timing belt. Is there a way to do a quick look and can you tell if the belt is new or old? It's at 120k miles and I know the belt wasn't replaced in last 20k, but have no idea about before that. I'd like to know in advance what parts I need so order so I don't have to spend extra/craigslist afterwards... is it typical for the idlers/tensionersto need replacement at this mileage? Thanks in advance!
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Old 10-25-2009, 03:18 PM   #96
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^I'll gladly answer questions with what I believe to be correct info

I don't think there is a "quick" way of seeing if your timing belt has been replaced. You could easily pull out the 3 10mm bolts on the drivers' side timing belt cover and look at the condition of the belt easily. But that doesn't always tell the whole story. I've pulled off 100k belts that can still look like belts with only 10k on them. My gates blue 3300 mile belt on the STI has wear marks on the outside that make it look like it could have 200k on it already! I recommend removing the accessory belts and crank pulley and pulling the center cover off for a better view of crucial components. This may require the removal of the radiator also. A quick look at your tensioner for any leaking oil from the top of the tension cylinder could say that it's the original tensioner. Removing any of the idler pulleys and spinning them by hand, and getting a "rollerskate wheel rattle" from them proves they are the originals. Looking at the inner bearings on the pulleys and seeing a build-up of grease or rust could also mean they need replaced as well.

I know most people are against eBay parts.. but I've had good luck with the MADE IN JAPAN PCI kits off ebay. The tensioner and small idler are Subaru OEM, and the belt was also an OEM equivalent. The rest of the idlers have the GMB brand, seems they are just different colors.

Here's their info if you want to purchase the same kit I did:

Preferred Components, INC

(253) 864-0590 (800) 275 7394 Fax (253) 864-0623
[email protected]

Or buy on eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2002-...Q5fAccessories

Last edited by Meatbawl; 10-25-2009 at 03:26 PM.
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Old 10-26-2009, 02:40 PM   #97
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Thanks for the help meatbawl!

I may just buy a PCI set so I have it, and sell the parts again if I don't need them.. probably wouldn't lose too much.
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Old 10-26-2009, 05:57 PM   #98
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quick question meaty (or others that might have the answer to my question ),

Searched and found some very few people that can't align all their markings up perfectly (i'm assuming it's because of the stress of the belt with time, became loose, expand, etc). If that were the case, is it a good idea to line up the driver side cams first while the belt is still on, take the belt off, and individually align the crank and the 2 passenger cams by hand? I'd figure the driver side is in tension and don't really want to mess with that side that much and it's probably safer to align that side first.
I know the question might sound a little out of whack, haha, but i'm always thinking of the worst case scenario.
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Old 11-03-2009, 09:40 AM   #99
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Just wanted to say great write up.
Did my belt yesterday, honestly it was pretty easy. Except for the previous owner must have had a gorilla for a mechanic. Whoever replaced the drive belts broke the alt tensioner bolt. Sheared the bolt off in the piece that slides up and down. I guess they didn't know you had to loosen the tensioner bolts before the adjuster works.

Either way I got threw it, all my idlers were shot and sounded like skateboard wheels. Belt was in good condition but didn't feel as nice as the replacement. I had planned on replacing crank and cam seals while I was in there but after looking at it... decided I would say that for another day. No obvious leaks in the timing area, just dirt build up. Cleaned it all up, put antisieze on the bolts, put her back together with some fresh coolant and oil.

Honestly, the car runs smoother and feels better.

Nice writeup! Definatley head warning to the driver side top cam... that sucker was hungry for my finger!

I was prepared for a battle with the subbie like I had done with the up-pipe but it was much easier than that!.
-Ed
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Old 11-03-2009, 11:08 AM   #100
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all my idlers were shot and sounded like skateboard wheels.
-Ed
How many miles on the car?
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