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Old 06-29-2009, 02:29 PM   #1
JM530
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Default Auto-X and HPDEs - Extended bolts/lugs??

Do many of you guys run them, or is it something for those more serious/doing more events, etc? A buddy who helps work on my car has recommended them and I usually don't see guys with them at HPDE's, etc.

Sure, I know now and then someone will snap a wheel off , but just wondering the likelihood of that and if its something that many guys feel is vital to do.

I run about 5 HPDEs a year, no auto-x.

Thanks for any input!
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Old 06-29-2009, 04:30 PM   #2
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Unless you need them to run wheels with a thicker hub there is really no reason to get them.

If you are replacing your stock lugs due to wear and tear then getting extended lugs isn't a bad idea, but good quality normal sized lugs work just as well as long as you have enough thread engagement.
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Old 06-30-2009, 01:45 AM   #3
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I always install longer wheel studs so I can use spacers.
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Old 06-30-2009, 06:42 AM   #4
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Longer studs won't keep a wheel on any better. They will allow for fitting wheels that are wider at the hub than stock, or allow wheels with spacers. If you're doing a lot of wheel changing, the ARP lugs are also a bit nicer with the dogpoint tips, but that's a minor benefit and not worth the cost of ARPs alone.
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Old 06-30-2009, 09:23 AM   #5
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It's nice to get longer ones up front. You can add spacers to increase the front track for better steering. Makes the car a little more sure footed.
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Old 06-30-2009, 09:34 AM   #6
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Arbitrary spacers also help to grind your wheel bearings to a pulp a little faster.
-N
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Old 06-30-2009, 09:43 AM   #7
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thanks for all the feedback, guys.

I have a low offest rim on, +35s, with hub rings. I will just stay with what I have then, thanks!
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Old 07-01-2009, 03:27 PM   #8
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meh...low offset is +15, lol...I only did that for a year..FWIW, I use a 5 mm spacer all the time for the fronts..
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Old 07-02-2009, 01:33 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crystalhelix View Post
meh...low offset is +15, lol...I only did that for a year..FWIW, I use a 5 mm spacer all the time for the fronts..
Did you have to use longer than stock wheel studs with those 5 mm spacers?
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Old 07-02-2009, 09:54 AM   #10
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For lots of autocross...

I picked up a handful of extra wheel studs from Advance for about $2 each. I'd rather not switch to ARP studs if I don't need to. If I snap a stud, I can fix it right then. Nothing has snapped yet *knocks on wood*

And any spacer requires extended wheel studs. Look around on the tire and wheel forum. You are supposed to need 10 turns on a stock lug (1 diameter). My stockers get about 8.25 turns without spacers. i.e. spacers absolutely require longer studs.
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Old 07-02-2009, 12:00 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Web Foot STi View Post
Did you have to use longer than stock wheel studs with those 5 mm spacers?
No, I think had 3 or 4 thread of engagement. I am currently using a 3mm spacer and I feel it's much safer, lol.
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Old 07-02-2009, 01:06 PM   #12
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Thanks. It's nice to hear feedback on the exact parts on the same year and trim car that one is thinking about using from someone who has.

The Ben Hur (ARP type length) extended studs also require opened ended lug nuts, not the stock type acorn nuts. One does not want to change the studs and get a "surprise".

I have been known to hang out in Tyre and Wheel. Check out post #28:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1701612
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Old 07-02-2009, 03:52 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crystalhelix View Post
No, I think had 3 or 4 thread of engagement. I am currently using a 3mm spacer and I feel it's much safer, lol.
To have safe engagement, yes, you need longer studs even for a 5mm spacer. 3mm is probably doable, but 5mm is just shy of safe.
-N
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Old 07-07-2009, 08:42 PM   #14
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I replaced my stock lugs (04 STi) with ARP extended. I twisted off 3 lugs in the last two wheel changes (after years of regular tire changes at the track with no issues). I figured it was time, and if I was going to do it I was going to do it right. I found that the fronts dropped right in, but the rears required disassembly of the hubs and replacement of the wheel bearings, so it was expensive. It is now far easier to install the wheels, since the longer lugs are easier to find with the wheel. It is also FAR easier to install the longer, open ended lug nuts.



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Old 07-07-2009, 08:43 PM   #15
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I have plenty of "engagement".
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Old 07-07-2009, 08:52 PM   #16
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^^ Thank's for the pics.

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Old 07-08-2009, 11:04 PM   #17
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When you change your wheels, loosen one side at a time...if you break loose the lugs on both sides you're putting stress in the opposite side of the car when you jack up just one side.

Never had it happen for me, but have heard several stories now, so i do one side at a time.
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Old 07-09-2009, 08:31 AM   #18
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I only loosen one side at a time, jacking up one side at a time and swapping out both wheels on that side, then repeating on the other side. I attribute the broken studs to wear. In each case, the lug nut bound on the threads, and then I had to "brute" off that nut. Twice the studs broke. Once it pulled the threads off the lug. After the first broken lug, I replaced the lug nuts,thinking they may be getting worn in the threads. After replacing the lugs, I also replaced the (then week old) lug nuts with new open-ended ones. I have over a hundred tire changes (easily).
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Old 07-09-2009, 11:51 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crystalhelix View Post
No, I think had 3 or 4 thread of engagement. I am currently using a 3mm spacer and I feel it's much safer, lol.
<shudder> I can name at least 3 incidents where wheels came off a car from lugs backing off with too little engagment. 3-4 threads is about how many turns?

When I first put my Kazeras on the car (17x7, 50et, no spacer), I found I only had about 7 turns before they were tight and torqued. I was always nervous as hell about that.

One of the things that was done when I went to ESP was the ARP studs. Yeah, it looks silly with the stock wheels, but, oh well.

Karen
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Old 07-09-2009, 01:02 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penderperson View Post
When you change your wheels, loosen one side at a time...if you break loose the lugs on both sides you're putting stress in the opposite side of the car when you jack up just one side.

Never had it happen for me, but have heard several stories now, so i do one side at a time.
i've never seen the logic as viable for jacking up a sides of teh car as oppossed to doing teh front and back instead. even if the car is too low throw some small wood planks down in the paddock space.
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Old 07-09-2009, 01:27 PM   #21
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Quote:
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i've never seen the logic as viable for jacking up a sides of teh car as oppossed to doing teh front and back instead. even if the car is too low throw some small wood planks down in the paddock space.
For us non-STI/STi drivers, if you jack one side and change that side's wheels, the center and rear diffs + parking brake lock the wheels/axles well enough that you can loosen/tighten the lugs while the wheels are up. If you jack the front end, the open diff lets either wheel spin as you work on it, which is a PITA.

Note that my cordless is too lame to break lug nuts free by itself, so I break them free with a wrench first and doing that without a locked axle is a PITA. YMMV if you have a manly cordless. But my cordless can't cross-thread a lug, either.

Jacking up one side does beat up the jack points tho (I use the inside frame rail, at the overlap point). Jacking the ends lets you use the factory hard points on cross-bar and diff/diff protector.

- Harry
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Old 07-09-2009, 01:46 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxologist View Post
i've never seen the logic as viable for jacking up a sides of teh car as oppossed to doing teh front and back instead. even if the car is too low throw some small wood planks down in the paddock space.
Directional tires.

So if you're only swapping them front to back on the same side, it makes a lot of sense to me to jack up one side at a time.
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Old 07-10-2009, 10:30 PM   #23
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I do it because it is far easier to jack on the side frame rail jack point. My "less than manly" cordless impact wrench can break about one wheel's lugs loose without help, but I typically use a 4-way to break em loose first.
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