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Old 07-02-2009, 05:34 PM   #1
STi-MAN
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Default datalogging anyone?

Anyone using any data logging equipment?

I know people on track hq use g2x and performance box. If anyone is using these how do you guys like them? helpful?
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Old 07-02-2009, 05:40 PM   #2
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i have an AIM system that I like a lot. The most popular and easy from most I talk to is the Traqmate(sp). I chose the AIM because most of the people I race with have them, so we can compare our data and notes. Thats the biggest factor I would look at
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Old 07-02-2009, 06:24 PM   #3
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Hmm, I log my motor. Watching the logs, I can interpolate where I am on track and terminal velocity and stuff like that. I have been wanting to get something like a Traqmate too . The only issue is that timing equipment is often forbidden at the HPDE's where I run so, you have to keep it on the down low.
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Old 07-02-2009, 06:47 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by MasterKwan View Post
Hmm, I log my motor. Watching the logs, I can interpolate where I am on track and terminal velocity and stuff like that. I have been wanting to get something like a Traqmate too . The only issue is that timing equipment is often forbidden at the HPDE's where I run so, you have to keep it on the down low.
though im not its biggest fan, the new AIM stuff has a GPS sensor so you can log your laps using GPS positioning, thus not needing to put out a beacon or whatever. I say im not the biggest fan because it was kind of a pain to set the start point for the lap, but after you do that you can set split, which is pretty cool
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Old 07-02-2009, 07:43 PM   #5
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It occured to me (haven't tried it yet) that since my logging to disk is controlled by the rear defroster switch, I can take reasonably accurate lap times by simply toggling the defroster button at the same point on the track. Each log file would then represent one lap. GPS is only accurate down to 25 feet or so? So, I should be able to get that accurate with my button pressing.
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Old 07-02-2009, 08:40 PM   #6
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I use the performance box from race logic. Works pretty well and is very accurate for velocity, less so for simple position. With their software you can make track maps, look at performance curves for speed, velocity, acceleration (long and lat), etc. It suctions to your front window, or you can use an external antenna and hide it somewhere (e.g., glovebox) for stealth application.
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Old 07-02-2009, 08:50 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STi-MAN View Post
Anyone using any data logging equipment?

I know people on track hq use g2x and performance box. If anyone is using these how do you guys like them? helpful?
What do you want to get out of data logging? Do you want to be a better driver or are you trying to improve the car?

Quote:
Originally Posted by misterwaterfallin View Post
i have an AIM system that I like a lot. The most popular and easy from most I talk to is the Traqmate(sp). I chose the AIM because most of the people I race with have them, so we can compare our data and notes. Thats the biggest factor I would look at
You must know Roger.



Quote:
Originally Posted by misterwaterfallin View Post
though im not its biggest fan, the new AIM stuff has a GPS sensor so you can log your laps using GPS positioning, thus not needing to put out a beacon or whatever. I say im not the biggest fan because it was kind of a pain to set the start point for the lap, but after you do that you can set split, which is pretty cool
Depends on the GPS unit you have. The CDS unit can work with the AIM systems now and it's just a push button. The AIM one is pretty straightforward as long as you aren't trying to figure it out when you are on track which is what invariably happens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterKwan View Post
It occured to me (haven't tried it yet) that since my logging to disk is controlled by the rear defroster switch, I can take reasonably accurate lap times by simply toggling the defroster button at the same point on the track. Each log file would then represent one lap. GPS is only accurate down to 25 feet or so? So, I should be able to get that accurate with my button pressing.
The GPS is much more accurate than that nowadays. What are you logging with?
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Old 07-02-2009, 08:55 PM   #8
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aim logger with cds gps. it makes pretty colors and then i shift.
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Old 07-02-2009, 10:24 PM   #9
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You're right.

Quote:
Most differential corrections will allow accuracy of 3-5 meters and WAAS will allow accuracy to 1 to 3 meters. See my GPS Accuracy Testing page for test results of a WAAS unit vs. non-WAAS unit.
http://www.doylesdartden.com/gis/Imp..._Accuracy.html

So, 3-9 feet if you have a WAAS equipped GPS. 9-15 ft if you have differential GPS. Less if you don't have differential.

I use RomRaider logger. With the things I log, I get a sample rate of about 4/sec so, .25 sec resolution. I primarily use it to monitor engine health. It's just recently I've thought about using it for timing.
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Old 07-02-2009, 10:33 PM   #10
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Default Data do-dad gizmos

The only data acquisition that counts is the stopwatch! THAT is the TRUE arbiter of talent and skill.
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Old 07-02-2009, 10:45 PM   #11
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The AIM MXL line has an adapter harness to log Subaru ECUs. But it's pretty expensive to get an MXL system with GPS and Accellerometers. But I guess not too bad if you compare it to a G2X or IQ3 with even 1 sensor.

-Mike
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Old 07-02-2009, 10:47 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by grippgoat View Post
The AIM MXL line has an adapter harness to log Subaru ECUs. But it's pretty expensive to get an MXL system with GPS and Accellerometers. But I guess not too bad if you compare it to a G2X or IQ3 with even 1 sensor.

-Mike
There are cheaper routes if you don't need the display and want to go with AIM. The EVO4 comes with a GPS unit built in. One could also wait until the SmartyCam comes out and get GPS, ECU data and video in one swoop.
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Old 07-03-2009, 02:58 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cooleyjb View Post
You must know Roger.
Roger and Ruth are good peoples, and good to have within a half hour. Their son Andrew is also a nice guy, and a hell of a driver

Quote:
Originally Posted by cooleyjb View Post
There are cheaper routes if you don't need the display and want to go with AIM. The EVO4 comes with a GPS unit built in. One could also wait until the SmartyCam comes out and get GPS, ECU data and video in one swoop.
I went with the EVO4, and has been great so far. You can hook up all the sensors like wideband, throttle position, ect. and it was like half the price of a MXL which has similar features
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Old 07-03-2009, 11:57 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cooleyjb View Post
What do you want to get out of data logging? Do you want to be a better driver or are you trying to improve the car?
I'm looking for a bit of both to be honest. It would be nice to datalog to see where i could improve as a driver and how different settings would affect my laps.. without relying solely on feel.

I've heard really great things about the g2x.. so was leaning on that, but i heard the same about performance box.
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Old 07-03-2009, 11:58 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STi-MAN View Post
I'm looking for a bit of both to be honest. It would be nice to datalog to see where i could improve as a driver and how different settings would affect my laps.. without relying solely on feel.
Stopwatch.
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Old 07-03-2009, 12:05 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DCRallyDave View Post
The only data acquisition that counts is the stopwatch! THAT is the TRUE arbiter of talent and skill.

can't tell you anything about how the car reacts though ..

daq will make tuning the motor/suspension/you quicker in a shorter amount of time
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Old 07-03-2009, 12:13 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by DCRallyDave View Post
Stopwatch.
I like how you keep using this dumb comment.

Even stop watch is couple tenths of a second off or more.. i do use amb timing right now. i wanted to see more information.
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Old 07-03-2009, 05:38 PM   #18
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when i lived in england we used pi research stuff for paying customers who thought they needed it. I set it all up for myself a few times, it can tell you more than you can ever possibly imagine if you have all the sensors, but really not worth the money for any amatuer racer. just use an amb or alfano or mychron.
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Old 07-04-2009, 12:45 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by STi-MAN View Post
I like how you keep using this dumb comment.

Even stop watch is couple tenths of a second off or more.. i do use amb timing right now. i wanted to see more information.
No, no...it's really witty. The world needs more mindless cliches.
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Old 07-04-2009, 02:35 AM   #20
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Default Cliches- Keep It Simple Stupid

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Redman
The only data acquisition that counts is the stopwatch! THAT is the TRUE arbiter of talent and skill.
Brian Redman said it first. Google him and tell me he is stupid.

Similar to dan az's post, I helped develop and later installed a data loggers, telemetry, GPS and digital video system (combined driver, forward view out windshield and pedals all into one image) for race schools and private teams for a living. A racing buddy of mine and Grand Am Rolex Series car owner hired me for his technology company because he wanted it for his team and later schools and other teams bought in. Have also been employed installing and operating the data acquisition equipment and software that writes the organizer supplied stagenotes for US and Canadian rallyracing events which all teams depend on with their lives to be accurate. So I ain't exactly stupid regarding the subject.

Spend your money where you want to earn your plastic empty trophy, but a better investment at the amateur level would be racing schools and good ole seat-time. Its racing, not # crunching.
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Old 07-04-2009, 05:09 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by DCRallyDave View Post
Spend your money where you want to earn your plastic empty trophy, but a better investment at the amateur level would be racing schools and good ole seat-time. Its racing, not # crunching.
you're first bit was all well and good, but being as the topic of this thread isn't: "Should I buy Data or Seat time" I dont think your argument serves a bit of purpose towards what we are trying to accomplish here. Everyone knows the seat time is the best investment you can make. Cool. Done. Now, when looking towards data, what should the OP be looking for (brands, features, ect.) That is what we are looking to tackle here

Also, you usually need some type of data system to be able to get your lap times. Either that or a friend timing you and a set of radios. Its useless to look at timing sheets after the session, when you cant feel what works and what doesn't on back to back laps vs. the clock
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Old 07-04-2009, 05:41 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DCRallyDave View Post
Brian Redman said it first. Google him and tell me he is stupid.

Similar to dan az's post, I helped develop and later installed a data loggers, telemetry, GPS and digital video system (combined driver, forward view out windshield and pedals all into one image) for race schools and private teams for a living. A racing buddy of mine and Grand Am Rolex Series car owner hired me for his technology company because he wanted it for his team and later schools and other teams bought in. Have also been employed installing and operating the data acquisition equipment and software that writes the organizer supplied stagenotes for US and Canadian rallyracing events which all teams depend on with their lives to be accurate. So I ain't exactly stupid regarding the subject.

Spend your money where you want to earn your plastic empty trophy, but a better investment at the amateur level would be racing schools and good ole seat-time. Its racing, not # crunching.
LOL. Yes, I know Brian. Also keep in mind he retired from competitive driving before data acquisition systems were widely used. His quote doesn't fit the times, sadly. Maybe you need to Google him a bit more before blindly following and parroting his quotes.

Got any quotes from Fangio on data systems? Nuvolari, maybe?

Also, the originator of the post asked for input on a specific topic, so an idiotic response telling him to use a stopwatch doesn't really help in any way, now does it?.

Classic case of having nothing to say or contribute to the guy asking a question but feeling the need to repeat something somebody else said to make you sound smart.

Everything you've said since involves being an installer of data equipment. I'd bet most people, even the 'Geek Squad' at Best Buy could install the systems you've mentioned. Lord knows how many data systems I've installed and I can tell you from my own experiences, it's not that difficult, nor does it require a lot of brain power.

As you lack the knowledge or expertise on how to coach and improve a driver using that equipment, maybe lay off this thread and go find one you actually have some understanding of?
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Old 07-04-2009, 11:12 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPME View Post
LOL. Yes, I know Brian. Also keep in mind he retired from competitive driving before data acquisition systems were widely used. His quote doesn't fit the times, sadly.
Retired driving, yes. Quote is recent and IMHO still relevant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MPME View Post
Everything you've said since involves being an installer of data equipment. I'd bet most people, even the 'Geek Squad' at Best Buy could install the systems you've mentioned.
No, I helped develop our system. I'd go supervise installation and test it and modify programming and/or hardware to customer's wishes. Yeah, sometimes I installed it myself just because I liked to weedgie myself inverted under a dash or between the seats of school car thru a jungle gym of rollcage tubing w/ all the tools and equipment I knew I'd need for a couple hours sitting on a baking paddock because I could do it better and faster than the geeksquad kid we had. I was not that kid and the system was not some buy on EBay, turn the on switch to on and leave in the glovebox either.

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As you lack the knowledge or expertise on how to coach and improve a driver using that equipment,
Duh, it wasn't my job other than the training the people whose job it was.

As for assuming I can't coach drivers, you're wrong. It takes bigger balls to sit beside them in a rallycar than behind the pitwall.

Have been on the receiving end of dumb data acquisition engineers while on manufacturer teams. Favorite has been the Pontiac and Mazda engineers telling us not to lift for turns at Pike Peak International hillclimb where if you don't make the corner, you're in outer space with no parachute. When it was my job, I was not that idiot.

What did you contribute other than insults?

Last edited by DCRallyDave; 07-05-2009 at 12:03 AM.
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Old 07-04-2009, 11:58 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DCRallyDave View Post
Brian Redman said it first. Google him and tell me he is stupid.

Similar to dan az's post, I helped develop and later installed a data loggers, telemetry, GPS and digital video system (combined driver, forward view out windshield and pedals all into one image) for race schools and private teams for a living. A racing buddy of mine and Grand Am Rolex Series car owner hired me for his technology company because he wanted it for his team and later schools and other teams bought in. Have also been employed installing and operating the data acquisition equipment and software that writes the organizer supplied stagenotes for US and Canadian rallyracing events which all teams depend on with their lives to be accurate. So I ain't exactly stupid regarding the subject.

Spend your money where you want to earn your plastic empty trophy, but a better investment at the amateur level would be racing schools and good ole seat-time. Its racing, not # crunching.

Speaking of assuming...

You're making the assumption that everyone learns the exact same way. They don't. Some people can learn from riding right seat, some from being told what to do, others (quite a few actually) need some quantification of what is going on.


FWIW I've seen a greater return on investment of a 600 dollar data system than 2 weekends of seat time many times over. It's not about the amount of seat time but the quality, and something like AIM or Traqmate can increase the quality of seat time exponentially.

When speaking of club racers/DE guys, drivers 'think' they know what is going and to be honest more often than not have no clue what actually is going on. You can tell them time and time again that the turn can be done this way or that they are doing it this way and they'll say no until you can prove it and show it.

For someone who has done all this data stuff for a living you sure seem to think that it's pretty worthless while most of the rest of the world has a rather different opinion.
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Old 07-05-2009, 01:03 PM   #25
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And the guy that has nothing to say and nothing to offer keeps talking. Brilliant. Please, waste more time.
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