Clay bar kits

[robinbrd311]

sounds good

[V6TurboTA]

Originally Posted by Kean

....I chose to stay out of this "ICE" discussion because I didn't think it was worth arguing about up to this point, but I guess I'll throw in my two cents as well.

Obviously, some folks have used it and like the results while others also have tried it but their experience was different (or indifferent). ....and then there are those who are simply making baseless and/or uninformed remarks. Personally, I have not tried the product but I can confidently say I have no interest in it. ....but it's not for the reasons you might think. I won't argue about the effectiveness of the liquid clay or the actual clay itself. What turns me off about the ICE system is exactly that. .....it's a "system".

When I am doing a full detail, I am already including an APC in my wash solution (to help strip the old LSP, grime, etc. from the finish). Essentially, this is the equivalent of what the "liquid clay" would do in the TW system (less the alleged mild corrective action that the LC may have). Next, I would clay the car (same step as the TW kit). I would then assess the paint at this point and take whatever corrective action is necessary (using my buffer and whatever pad(s) & product(s) needed), then follow with an LSP. Basically, the TW system includes an extra cleaning step I just don't find necessary (i.e. pre-cleaning the paint (after washing) prior to claying). I find many of the OTC clay bars (like Clay Magic) are effective enough to remove contaminants from the surface of the finish prior to correction/LSP. If used properly and coupled with a QD/lube with good lubricity, marring should not be an issue. .....and as crent86 mentioned, there are varying grades available if needed.

In a nutshell, the TW clay system may work well for some folks (more power to them because that's what counts), but I personally can't see the value of adding the extra step in a routine that basically nets the same results. ....because there is no way I would simply rinse a dirty car and then apply LC potentially rubbing dirt/grit against the paint as I'm agitating the product. I would still wash the car prior.

Another baseless opinion that misses the point of this product! Great!

[Kean]

Originally Posted by V6TurboTA

Another baseless opinion that misses the point of this product! Great!

....how so? Can you elaborate rather than making simple condescending/dismissive remarks? If you disagree with what I said then tell me what I'm missing. .....this is one of the reasons I chose to stay out of this discussion up to this point (due to the irrational responses).

[V6TurboTA]

You are missing the point of the product imho.

Its a product that is NOT for professionals. Nor is it for someone with a garage full of detailing supplies. Its a simple do it yourself kit that produces incredible results for someone with little to no knowledge about detailing.

If the kit is not for you, great. But dont go making opinions about something you simply dont like because of what you THINK about it. Its not good for the cause.

[Kean]

Originally Posted by V6TurboTA

You are missing the point of the product imho.

Its a product that is NOT for professionals. Nor is it for someone with a garage full of detailing supplies. Its a simple do it yourself kit that produces incredible results for someone with little to no knowledge about detailing.

If the kit is not for you, great. But dont go making opinions about something you simply dont like because of what you THINK about it. Its not good for the cause.

...thank you for reciprocating with the same level of respect (well, better at least). I'm all for discussing these topics civilly since many aspects are subjective and there is always something new I (and others) can learn from one another.

Having said that, I would like to add that MY opinion is just that. .....an opinion. I feel it is no more or less important than anyone else's (although some may place more credibility on one than another). Unlike some individuals that chose to simply bash on the product with no basis, I gave specific/valid points as to why I wouldn't have an interest in it. .....and yes, I do buy some OTC products and would consider the liquid clay bar if I thought it could bring value to my routine of maintaining my own vehicles. We're only talking about a paint cleansing/clay process. For those of us who use traditional clay, I don’t see the benefit in adding the liquid clay into the process if the bar is still required. In either case, (for the reasons I mentioned earlier) I would wash the car prior to application of the LC/bar or just a bar. You don’t need to be a professional or an enthusiast with a garage full of supplies. ....this can also apply to the average Joe. While I may include certain APC's or chemicals to aid in LSP/contaminant removal, many also use regular household liquid Dawn with similar results. As for the clay, I typically use Clay Magic which is readily available and relatively inexpensive. Personally, I have yet to have any issues in achieving a baby smooth finish (mar-free) just using these two steps (ready for polish, etc.). As for knowledge (or the lack of), the ICE kit still contains a traditional clay bar. Whether using a CM bar or the one that comes with the TW kit, the end-user will still need to have an understanding of basic techniques for its application (which should be the same in either case). These days I'm looking for methods, tools & products that help shorten my process(es). ....I would wager many others are as well.

I have read many reviews since the product came to market and while some were negative/indifferent, there were also a fair share of opinions (some form reputable sources) that persuaded me to believe the product works as advertised for the most part. Either way, the "kit" is also relatively inexpensive and I see no reason someone shouldn't try it if they are curious. In my opinion the performance difference between most OTC clays doesn't warrant paying more for one rather than the other anyhow (that's why I go for the cheaper one or whatever is on sale). As long as the TW clay + lube are still decent, I wouldn't dissuade someone from at least trying the kit out to see if it's right for them.

[noonagon]

Originally Posted by V6TurboTA

You are missing the point of the product imho.

Its a product that is NOT for professionals. Nor is it for someone with a garage full of detailing supplies. Its a simple do it yourself kit that produces incredible results for someone with little to no knowledge about detailing.

If the kit is not for you, great. But dont go making opinions about something you simply dont like because of what you THINK about it. Its not good for the cause.

good results? yes, incredible? definitly not. You are right, for someone who has no knowledge of detailing they can get a nice shine and smooth finish, but still, it does not compare to professional products as far as end looks and durability of finish. Nor should it at 17.99

[AlbanianImpreza]

because im pretty sure the OP was asking about stuff hed find easily, worked very well, and did the job. i doubt he was asking about how he should open up a business and what products.

[Kean]

Originally Posted by noonagon

good results? yes, incredible? definitly not. You are right, for someone who has no knowledge of detailing they can get a nice shine and smooth finish, but still, it does not compare to professional products as far as end looks and durability of finish. Nor should it at 17.99

....it's a clay kit. As long as it's able to remove the contaminants from the finish, the end result is the same. As far as ends looks and durbailty, that is where polishes, LSP's, etc. come into play. Frankly, most OTC clays you find in the store are the same type used by many pros (and work fine), so it's not a matter of "professional" products at this stage. ....also, price ≠ quality/performance necessarily.

[ctrent86]

^^ Good points. The only thing I would add about OTC clays is, and for good reason, are mild. For some cars that I have to deal with, OTC clays aren't abrasive enough for really make the surface contaminant mostlyfree. However, something like mothers clay and good lube will work for most.

For liquid clay bar I am in the boat of Kean. When doing a full detail, I will do an initial rinse with water, APC spray down (just started using CG grime reaper :thumbs up:, and then do a dawn rinse down. I find this get the surface really clean and in most cases a really mild and light clay bar gets me good. I haven't ever used a system like ICE because just like Kean it would save me any steps or time.

I would also echo what Kean said about price not being everything. I actually use a lot of Duragloss products which are OTC.

[Kyle13]

Originally Posted by AlbanianImpreza

because im pretty sure the OP was asking about stuff hed find easily, worked very well, and did the job. i doubt he was asking about how he should open up a business and what products.

Thank you!

[AlbanianImpreza]

welcome man.

here lemme try to get it back into what you asked about:

ICE system

Car wash
liquid clay
clay bar.

basically its real easy. wash your car. dry it, make sure you have no water spots

rub up the liquid clay to start getting the surface ready, then wash off, dry off with no water spots.

then just lubricate with the spray, and rub the clay bar untill it feels completely smooth. trust me, once you try it, you'll know what i mean.

do sections at a time. and then wash, and dry off. of course with no water spots.

then wax with ice wax. apply everywhere. lol. i wax EVERYTHING. from plastic, glass, car parts. i really dont care. lol. oh and honestly you'll thank me that i said that lol.

now go get the stuff and try it man. you'll be happy.

[Kean]

....his questions were answered but I'll address the original post as well to add another point of view:

Originally Posted by Kyle13

Hey everybody, I have a few questions about these clay bar kits... First, which one is the best? I've seen Meguiars, Mothers, Turtle, etc all have them.

Most OTC clay kits are of similar quality. ....I have tried most of them over the years. Pick one and go for it. I doubt you will be disappointed if you use them properly. Personally, I usually choose Clay Magic because it performs well and is typically cheaper by comparison.

Originally Posted by Kyle13

Also, how do you go about using them? I want to try one on my car but I'm afraid that I'll do something wrong.

The following is a link to a well written, relatively brief article regarding the process:

http://www.autopia.org/forum/guide-d...-cleaning.html

Originally Posted by Kyle13

Finally, how long do the results last for, and what should I be looking for/ feeling on my paint after I use it. Thanks guys!

You need to understand what the clay process does. The article above covers this but in a nutshell, it simply removes surface contamination. Any embedded grit/small bumps you notice on the paint after a thorough wash should dissipate/disappear as you glide the clay over the panel/area you are working on. The end result you are looking for is a very smooth, clean surface ready for polishing, waxing, etc. As for the longevity of the results, you are talking about contamination. It will depend greatly on several factors (i.e. environment, polish & LSP's you use, your maintenance tools/products/techniques, etc.).

Now, the TW ICE product AI has been raving about adds an extra step (liquid clay) which is essentially a chemical cleaner (with stoddard solvent/petroleum distillates) to help remove some contaminants and any LSP, fillers, etc. prior to using the clay bar. Aside from the light corrective abilities they claim the LC has, I find it an unnecessary step since a good bar itself is capable of handing contaminant removal without the aid of the pre-treatment LC provides and the LSP removal can be done by simply adding an APC or something like Dawn in your wash bucket. ....that has been my point all along. That's not to say the TW clay kit is bad, but I think it's only fair to consider the variety of other offerings/methods as well (and make a decision from there).

What is your plan for correcting the finish (removing any scratches, buffer swirls ,etc.)? How bad is the condition of your paint currently? What end result are you trying to achieve? A properly prepared and protected finish will last many months with the right tools, products and techniques. It just depends on what your expectations are and what you are willing to do to get there. You can clay the car to perfection but if you have issues with blemishes, you'll need other steps/processes to address that or you will be left with a smooth feeling, crappy looking finish.

[ctrent86]

Originally Posted by AlbanianImpreza

welcome man.

here lemme try to get it back into what you asked about:

ICE system

Car wash
liquid clay
clay bar.

basically its real easy. wash your car. dry it, make sure you have no water spots

So why do you need to make sure there is no water spots before you are about to clay

[silverlux]

Originally Posted by iheartscoobys

For those who think the ICE liquid clay bar stuff is simply amazing and so wonderfull, wait til you acually try out a REAL claybar, you will ***** bricks on how much better it is.

That is all

agreed

[Kean]

Originally Posted by silverlux

agreed

....you may want to actually read the thread before blindly agreeing. They were talking about the TW ICE clay "kit" (which inlcudes a traditional clay bar).

[V6TurboTA]

Originally Posted by Kean

....you may want to actually read the thread before blindly agreeing. They were talking about the TW ICE clay "kit" (which inlcudes a traditional clay bar).

at replying to spammer.

Also I found no need to dry the car as I used the ICE system... of course I used it at night so there was no sun to devastate the paint via water spots.


also I dont know why you insist on saying its an extra step... Its not. If you use the ICE system you dont need to use a precleaner before claying... If you dont use a precleaner before claying that I dont know what to tell you.

Keep in mind this kit is for someone who will NOT be buffing the car after so its very important that this product creates as little marring as possible. imho this is done by using crazy amounts of silicone in both the liquid clay and the clay bar lube.

Also you say a clay bar does the same thing as the liquid clay. Again I strongly disagree. It gets stuff off that a clay bar will not. Bugs, tree sap, rust thats embedded into the finish etc...

Argue all day if you want.

In fact argue with the customer whos car I used it on. He was so unimpressed he happily payed me hundreds of dollars.

[ctrent86]

I use a clay to get up all the items you just listed saying a clay cannot.

Sap check
Bugs double check
rust and industrial and rail dust triple check.

I would suggest your lube or clay selection for the application you are trying are not correct.

I think this thread is getting beat to death, but I do not want false information to getting out.

[Kean]

....I'm not sure if you're done editing but I don’t what else to tell you that I haven’t already explained V6.

Originally Posted by V6TurboTA

also I dont know why you insist on saying its an extra step... Its not. If you use the ICE system you dont need to use a precleaner before claying... If you dont use a precleaner before claying that I dont know what to tell you.

....you folks are talking about using the system/kit right? If so, then it IS an extra step vs. just using a clay bar. If you are just using the clay bar that came in the kit, obviously it would be no different. That should have been perfectly clear in my posts but apparently not.

Originally Posted by V6TurboTA

Keep in mind this kit is for someone who will NOT be buffing the car after so its very important that this product creates as little marring as possible. imho this is done by using crazy amounts of silicone in both the liquid clay and the clay bar lube.

....this seems like ever changing scenario. First, it's the best stuff on Earth. .....next, it's the best stuff on Earth but only for the average Joe with little experience and rudimentary tools/supplies. ....now it's still the best stuff on Earth but only for the average Joe with little experience, rudimentary tools/supplies and no intention of using anything except an LSP.

I don’t know how else to say it, but if you are marring your finish with one of these common OTC clay bars, you're doing it wrong. Success is mainly through the liberal use of a decent lube (with good lubricity) and a light touch (letting the product glide over the surface). Perhaps the TW ICE lube and LC have some special formulation that provides uber-lubricity, but if I'm able to achieve total contamination removal from a car with other clay bars without marring it, it's a moot point.

Originally Posted by V6TurboTA

Also you say a clay bar does the same thing as the liquid clay. Again I strongly disagree. It gets stuff off that a clay bar will not. Bugs, tree sap, rust thats embedded into the finish etc...

....I really wish you would read my posts. I didn't say the clay bar does the same thing that the LC does. However, traditional clay will remove the contaminants you listed and more. That's what its purpose is and what numerous users have been using it for many years.........contaminant removal (which inlcds. tar spots, rail dust, brake dust, tree sap, bug splatter, paint overspray (it's original purpose), heavy road film, etc.).

...back to the LC comparison to clay. I already explained & acknowledged what LC does. It is a pre-cleanser much like an APC/wax remover type product with some (alleged) minor corrective abilities. I even listed some of the ingredients that should be an indicator as to why it would be effective. My point was that since much of this can be taken care of in the wash process (with Dawn, APC, etc.), a traditional clay could handle the rest. LC may be arguably more effective at pre-cleaning (leaving less for the TW clay to take care of), the fact remains that a clay bar can still tackle these issues on its own. In other words, I don’t see what the LC will remove that the clay bar can not (speaking form years of personal experience as well as the multitude of other professional/enthusiasts experiences you can read about on the various detailing forums that have been using clay bars long before the introduction of LC products for just this purpose).

One other counter-point..... Since you say that LC "gets stuff off that a clay bar will not" (relative to your list), what's the purpose of the clay bar in the kit? To get stuff off that LC will not?

Originally Posted by V6TurboTA

Argue all day if you want.

In fact argue with the customer whos car I used it on. He was so unimpressed he happily payed me hundreds of dollars.

....I have no wish to argue with you any "all day" but you keep coming back at me as though you are taking this personally.

I will say this to you.... I'm confident in the fact that my points are valid. Also, (I will say this one more time) I am not knocking the TW clay kit as being ineffective at contaminant removal. I'm sure it is (as I have said repeatedly). However, if I can achieve the same thing with a wash solution and traditional clay, I don’t see how the TW clay kit exceeds others in performance @ contaminant removal.

I apologize if I'm beginning to sound a little snippy in some of my above remarks but I feel this is getting to the point where it really isn't constructive. Perhaps we should leave it at that....

[V6TurboTA]

Ok.... lets start over here...

Kean I just found the disconnect I am having with you...

I missed the fact that you add the precleaner INTO your wash...

Thats where you are saving a step that I missed.

That being said I appologise for any miscommunications and or bad attitude that resulted from it.


So for everyone else... I still say this product is great. Pro, or Joe blow this works great and for $18 and a few hours time it produced fantastic results.

I wouldnt use it on a show car... but then again I dont drive one and neither do 95% of the people on the road.

[Kean]

....no worries. I also apologize if I came off as being snippy. While I still think we may not be on the same page in regard to the points I was making, I'm not going to beat a dead horse.

[darknightohio]

$18 is a ripoff imo, Clay Magic is much cheaper and does a great job.

[V6TurboTA]

Originally Posted by Kean

....no worries. I also apologize if I came off as being snippy. While I still think we may not be on the same page in regard to the points I was making, I'm not going to beat a dead horse.

Fair enough.

Originally Posted by darknightohio

$18 is a ripoff imo, Clay Magic is much cheaper and does a great job.

another post before you really get it?

Ice kit comes with MORE than Clay magic! It comes with everything in a clay magic kit, PLUS the liquid clay (precleaner)

Clay magic is still a great product though.

[Kean]

....and the ICE kit is at the right price point in relation to others. Even when compared to the typically cheaper $15 price tag of Clay Magic, I would hardly call a $3 difference a "rip-off".

[V6TurboTA]

I would say the liquid clay is worth $5 easy in my book.

[vinxH]

if they didn't call it a "liquid clay" it'd probably have a better rep as a cleaner wax. they call it liquid clay, so everyone who uses it is expecting it to replicate what a clay bar does, only to be disappointed.

i remember when it came out.. everyone was skeptical. then 1 person came on here and wrote a bad review about it, and next thing you know... everyone starts passing negative words around without ever trying the product.