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Old 07-03-2009, 02:49 AM   #1
chimchimm5
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Default Fast corners, fast straights, light, and cheap to run?

Holy Grail of a track car. I realize you can probably have 3 but not all 4.

But what comes closest to it?
- turbo miata?
- salvage fixer upper lotus?
- swapped E30 M3?
- ???
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Old 07-03-2009, 03:01 AM   #2
misterwaterfallin
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Turbo Miata
c4 vette possibly but I would imagine those things would eat consumables all day.
Boosted hatch possibly if you want the FWD honda. can be done cheap, light, and would be pretty quick all over
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Old 07-03-2009, 03:17 AM   #3
ptclaus98
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Superkart.
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Old 07-03-2009, 04:04 AM   #4
emo_tactical9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by misterwaterfallin View Post
Turbo Miata
c4 vette possibly but I would imagine those things would eat consumables all day.
Boosted hatch possibly iff you want the FWD honda. can be done cheap, light, and would be pretty quick all over
In case you missed it, this is the right answer.
But boosted cars always adds money and complications.
Oh, and a 240sx.
Kidding. The prices have been artificially inflated by drift fan boys and other retards jumping the S chassis bandwagon.
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Old 07-03-2009, 05:40 AM   #5
iluvdrt
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edit never mind.

swapped 2.5 RS
Civic Type R
Turbo Miata
98 legacy GT wagon
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Old 07-03-2009, 07:39 AM   #6
chkltcow
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Lotus 7 replica. You can get a Westfield and throw a Miata or Ford Escort engine in it. Flyin' Miata actually sells them complete with all the donor parts you'd need to build one up.... or you could raid a junkyard and pick what you need.

http://www.flyinmiata.com/westfield/configurator.php
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Old 07-03-2009, 07:41 AM   #7
Craigs
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Formula Ford
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Old 07-03-2009, 08:52 AM   #8
MasterKwan
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My order is Miata and then swapped Civic. There are at least 3 motor options for the civic

1) Prelude motor
2) Integra motor, LS, GSR, Type-R
3) K20/K24 motor - the new hot lick. Lighter and more powerful than the other too. Harder swap though.

With the Civic you can stay NA and reliable and still be really fast. I've only ever seen one reliable turbo Miata. The rest broke at track days.
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Old 07-03-2009, 09:54 AM   #9
Mind
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The used S2000s seems to be getting pretty cheap these days. No idea about the consumables though, but it's pretty light.
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Old 07-03-2009, 10:01 AM   #10
Patrick Olsen
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3rd gen RX-7 with a nice, mild, 400rwhp LSX swap.
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Old 07-03-2009, 10:35 AM   #11
MasterKwan
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Quote:
The used S2000s seems to be getting pretty cheap these days. No idea about the consumables though, but it's pretty light
S2000's are 2800 lbs. They're one of the most frequently crashes vehicles I've ever seen at track days. That being said, I really like them too. Ap1's are scary., AP2's are alot better.
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Old 07-03-2009, 11:50 AM   #12
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Define "cheap"?

Regardless, I'm going to say c5 corvette.
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Old 07-03-2009, 11:54 AM   #13
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s2k's can be found for around 8-11 range for a ap1.

cars do spin out alot but in cali.. some people have gotten REALLY good at driving the s2k, posting some amazing et's for how little power those cars have.
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Old 07-03-2009, 11:57 AM   #14
ptclaus98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptclaus98 View Post
Superkart.
^^^^^^
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Old 07-03-2009, 12:32 PM   #15
Kubek
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Old 07-03-2009, 02:12 PM   #16
speedyHAM
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600cc motorcycle.
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Old 07-03-2009, 05:06 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterKwan View Post
Ap1's are scary., AP2's are alot better.
Only on stock suspensions, which will be gone in the context of the OP's quest I'd think. And if by "better" you mean whole-sale understeer. Later AP1's were also corrected for the liveliness issues...
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Old 07-03-2009, 10:43 PM   #18
Boxologist
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Formula atlantic, continetal, 500, 1000, 2000. CSR, DSR, etc.

guess what, lightweight and aero really work around a track!
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Old 07-03-2009, 10:50 PM   #19
grippgoat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chimchimm5 View Post
Holy Grail of a track car. I realize you can probably have 3 but not all 4.

But what comes closest to it?
- turbo miata?
- salvage fixer upper lotus?
- swapped E30 M3?
- ???
Turbo miata if it's not too small for you, but it depends on how fast you want to go on the straights. You've got to make sure you've REALLY taken care of ALL the heat-management details. If you go past about 200whp, you'll probably also need a "big" brake kit (which is still smaller than stock STI brakes). At 300+ whp, you'll be breaking transmissions, and may have trouble keeping the motor together.

There's a guy in my area with a ~330whp miata. It's ridiculously fast. But it breaks in expensive ways too often for my tastes.

-Mike
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Old 07-06-2009, 05:18 PM   #20
Quick
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I always thought one of these would make a great track car, and not too expensive, really. Also shouldn't have quite the heat issues that the turbo ones have.

I almost bought/built one before I decided on my STi track car.

http://www.flyinmiata.com/V8/index.php
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Old 07-06-2009, 05:43 PM   #21
cooleyjb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craigs View Post
Formula Ford
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxologist View Post
Formula atlantic, continetal, 500, 1000, 2000. CSR, DSR, etc.

guess what, lightweight and aero really work around a track!
He said cheap to run.

FA, FF, FC are 20 hours of motor time between rebuilds.

F1000 is still working on engine longevity as well.

That being said, an older FC is the fastest bang for the buck out there by FAR.
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Old 07-06-2009, 07:33 PM   #22
ptclaus98
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Superkart.
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Old 07-06-2009, 08:02 PM   #23
Gonz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chimchimm5
Holy Grail of a track car. I realize you can probably have 3 but not all 4.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptclaus98 View Post
Superkart.

OP is asking about CARS not carts. That response is about as odd as the one that thinks a C5 Vette is "cheap to run"


Real answer is: there is no such car.
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Old 07-06-2009, 08:18 PM   #24
wrxmuch?
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litchfield type 25
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Old 07-06-2009, 08:57 PM   #25
racerjon1
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It all depends on what counts as "fast" or "cheap."

a Formula Continental isn't really a fast straight line car. At Roebling Road in Savannah, a Formula Continental is at 100% throttle for about 30 seconds and hits 133mph for a top speed. There are two corners in that 30-seconds.

A stock 06/07 STI - which isn't on the throttle as much - hits 135 at the same point.. actually earlier but it also brakes earlier.

The Lap Times:
FC 1:06 - 1:09
STI: 1:24-1:27

In comparison some other cars at the same point:
C5 Z06: 150
C6 Z06: 160
Porsche GT3 RS: 153 (showing 161 on the speedo though)

If you want fast, you need to get the HP up - which means Bike-engined and lightweight. IE: CSR/DSR Radical.

Of course you start talking about $50,000 for a Radical SR3, and the maintenance schedule is pretty intense on chassis/suspension parts.

I am about to head up a project building one of these:


It's a Westfield XTR - 900lbs, 195hp Busa motor. It has ball-joint suspension which "hurts" it compared to a heim setup, but also makes it better for longevity/maintenance. For track day stuff this is going to be plenty fast both on the straights and in the corners.

The kit with a good set of options runs around $28,000 and then you need a Heyabusa donor bike. It's safe to budget $40,000 for the XTR, but *could* probably be done for $35,000.


Jon K
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