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Old 07-04-2009, 12:31 PM   #1
Beam
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Question Draggers, need your help

So I spent some time in the STIcky thread on 1/4 times, but I'm just not savvy enough to interpret my results. Could you please help?

I went to Moroso for some 1/4 mile times (just want to benchmark the car), but the rainy weather earlier meant they could only get the 1/8th open for racing. Could anyone ballpark my 1/4 times from these two 1/8th passes?

r/t ______.025_______.787
60'______2.187______2.108
330______6.089______5.975
1/8 _____9.145______9.036
mph_____81.00______80.45


TIA!
Some notes about the car and driver. I was asleep on the second r/t, but I used launch control and left as hard as I could. That resulted in a hellacious BANG from the rear end. I presume the diff bouncing off the housing?

The suspension is OEM from '04, and the rear struts sound like a pair of angry chickens squabbling. The shot struts means the car squats quite a bit. They're getting replaced shortly...

Any feedback would be appreciated!
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Old 07-04-2009, 12:38 PM   #2
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04 sti with a 3076? WHOA

Your 60ft times are very very bad - Almost as bad as a stock 2.0 WRX and 4eat.

(I'm not hating I'm just informing - Drag racing isn't easy)

You have issues with your tune/engine/driving because your 330ft should be quicker by a long shot, even with a slow 60ft time. Your trap isn't HORRIBLY low, but still indicates something is not quite right.

Your ET reflects your 60ft time and or slow shifting.

If your using LC your slowest 60ft time should be 1.8 (That is the worst I've ever ran with my 2.0 using LC even with my 5 speed)

Can you datalog?

Set your LC around 4-4500 rpms - use your clutch more, don't worry about R/T its just a number and does not effect your run at all.. Shifting as fast as you can may not be the best, a controlled smooth quick shift with good clutch work will shave time.

You should be able to trap 90-95mph and have an ET of 7.5-7.8 with a 1.6-1.8 60ft time GIVEN your tune is on - from the looks of it its not.

That is a low 13 second to high 14 second pass depending on what was going on - if you went with the calculator - that is like a 14.5 second pass in the 1/4....
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Old 07-04-2009, 12:39 PM   #3
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I havent even been to the track with my WRX yet, but I can definitely tell that your 60 foot time is too high. From my experience, 1.7-1.8 is the sweet spot. Also, dont worry about your reaction time. If your running on a full tree, your ET doesnt start until you leave the line, so you can take all the time you need to make your run. Calculating 1/4 mile times from 1/8th mile times isnt accurate at all in my book. Sure you'll get a ballpark range, but it might be off as much as half a second.

That bang was indeed the rear diff. It should be much more subdued once you replace your blown struts, but it still likes to make a racket. Its a sign of a very aggressive launch. Your not sidestepping the clutch are you? Ideally you want to slip a bit at the beginning of your engagement so that you take out the slack in the drivetrain, then get off he clutch quickly (but still not sidestepping.)
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Old 07-04-2009, 12:42 PM   #4
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That's like a 14 second pass bub
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Old 07-04-2009, 01:12 PM   #5
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wow you have a rather large turbo, there is something wrong with the tune/car or you need to practice ALOT
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Old 07-04-2009, 01:17 PM   #6
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That's what I was afraid of...I appreciate the feedback!
The hard launch run was a bit agressive on the clutch. Not side stepping, but prolly pretty close- I didn't smell clutch at all, which means minimal slip. (The clutch is ACT street orgainc, HD pressure plate, and streetlite fly.)
Shifting was quick and smooth, so i guess the ET reflects the launch.

I'll datalog the next time I'm up there, but it'll be a while. It's 100 miles away, and it's swampy weather down here right now.

Given the STi gearing, would there be any gain to short-shifting 1st? I'm thinking the turbo has minimal time to load, perhaps it would be best to get into a longer gear to build better power? Or should I lay off the hash pipe?

C.J., the tune is solid. 11.5 afrs with 0.0 trims. 22psi peak tapering to 19 by redline as I don't have meth. However, I have a real short intake, and the heat soak is pretty bad between runs. Meanwhile, the exh header is cooling off. I'm really not sure how much that matters, or if I'm making excuses to make myself feel better. After all, my '02 wrx was running low 14s on the stock turbo with AP.

I compression tested the engine a couple weeks ago, and got 130-135 on all cylinders. However, i noticed a gasoline smell to the oil the last oil change.

Last edited by Beam; 07-04-2009 at 01:23 PM.
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Old 07-04-2009, 01:19 PM   #7
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No I have a 6 speed and run out my gears - with that turbo you want to keep it up top - keeps spool and as long as it was tuned for it, keeps boost up top.


I think stretching gears with the 6 speed helps quite a bit... Its short enough as it is...

Dropping .5 on your 60ft times will probably drop around .75 or so in your 1/8th...

-Jerod
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Old 07-04-2009, 01:33 PM   #8
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the times really suck for a 30R. how much does the car weight? and how much do you weight ? Some people can't drive period , So I would let a friend that knows how to drive do a pass in the 1/8 before blaming the car.

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Old 07-04-2009, 01:36 PM   #9
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Um, there's 2 10's in a box and amps in the trunk, and I'm 225

There are plenty of variables, especially the driver, to fix up.
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Old 07-04-2009, 01:46 PM   #10
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On a tiny turbo such as the stocker vf-36/43/48 you'd want to short shift the upper gears by a few 100rpm. On a turbo like the one you have, you should be making plenty of jam all the way to redline and taking advantage of your gearing will yeild the best results (as in shifting at redline).

It's hard not to be aggressive while going down the strip, but the goal to a quick time is smoothness. My car HATES super fast shifts as it seems to cause shift knock. If I focus on working the clutch more so than banging the stick I get better results.

Launching our cars takes some technique but after you get it down it's not hard at all. What I essentially do is slip it moderately until the vehicle begeins charging forward and then life your foot as quickly as you can. I recommend practicing on wet pavement to ease the abuse while still learning.
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Old 07-04-2009, 01:59 PM   #11
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Wet roads you say? The skies just opened down here....time to go practice!

Thanks again for the helpful feedback.
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Old 07-04-2009, 03:00 PM   #12
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You need to short shift the first three gears--1st by 5800,2nd by 6300,3rd by 6500--then run 4th and 5th to almost 7000.You have to remember your stock cams drop off trq fairly quickly and with the load from the earlier gears you will not hit full boost until 4th gear ,so you want to get into your big boost gears as soon as possible thus short shifting.I guarentee you if you drive it like I said you should shave 1/2 a second off your time.You did not mention are you ffsing the car or letting off between gears.
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Old 07-04-2009, 10:15 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beam View Post
So I spent some time in the STIcky thread on 1/4 times, but I'm just not savvy enough to interpret my results. Could you please help?

I went to Moroso for some 1/4 mile times (just want to benchmark the car), but the rainy weather earlier meant they could only get the 1/8th open for racing. Could anyone ballpark my 1/4 times from these two 1/8th passes?

r/t ______.025_______.787
60'______2.187______2.108
330______6.089______5.975
1/8 _____9.145______9.036
mph_____81.00______80.45


TIA!
Some notes about the car and driver. I was asleep on the second r/t, but I used launch control and left as hard as I could. That resulted in a hellacious BANG from the rear end. I presume the diff bouncing off the housing?

The suspension is OEM from '04, and the rear struts sound like a pair of angry chickens squabbling. The shot struts means the car squats quite a bit. They're getting replaced shortly...

Any feedback would be appreciated!

The 60ft will come in time with practice, yielding you some better results. A 1.6 will probably get you to a high 7 low 8 second 1/8th. Aside from driver though, the trap is horrible. That will come up with a good 60ft, but not to where it should be. On pump a 30r should at least touch 94mph to the 1/8.
For example, my car on the stocker had a best 1/8 of 7.60 @ 92mph. A 30r on pump should be making 30-50whp more than i was making.
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Old 07-04-2009, 10:27 PM   #14
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W/e you figure out, lets go together. Moroso is my track too. My built motor and new turbo are at 1400 miles of the break in to 1600 .
PM your number, are you on sfsubys.com?
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Old 07-04-2009, 10:29 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by godforbid67 View Post
W/e you figure out, lets go together. Moroso is my track too. My built motor and new turbo are at 1400 miles of the break in to 1600 .
PM your number, are you on sfsubys.com?
Awsome to see you up and running. Make sure everything is broken in correctly, then let her ripp and post some results!!!
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Old 07-04-2009, 10:42 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by STi Mikey View Post
Awsome to see you up and running. Make sure everything is broken in correctly, then let her ripp and post some results!!!
I wouldn't listen to Mikey - he still can't break into the 11's haha
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Old 07-05-2009, 12:01 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john 1badSTI View Post
You need to short shift the first three gears--1st by 5800,2nd by 6300,3rd by 6500--then run 4th and 5th to almost 7000.You have to remember your stock cams drop off trq fairly quickly and with the load from the earlier gears you will not hit full boost until 4th gear ,so you want to get into your big boost gears as soon as possible thus short shifting.I guarentee you if you drive it like I said you should shave 1/2 a second off your time.You did not mention are you ffsing the car or letting off between gears.
i dont think i've ever heard anyone say that before.

the problem i have with short shifting the lower gears is that you go into the next gear completely out of boost.

IE, if he shifts at 5800rpm in first and drops to 3800 rpm in 2nd he is gonna be at like 6-8psi.......whereas if he took first out to 7000rpm and got into 2nd at 5000rpm he'd be at 20+ psi.

What you're saying sounds like you're trying to drive in the area under the torque curve?

I thought you wanted to drive in the largest area under the hp curve?
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Old 07-05-2009, 12:34 PM   #18
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No Flat foot shifting as I don't have it.

Godforbid67, I'll drop you a line the next time I'm up there. I was the only Suby!

EDIT: Just joined SFSubys, Same S/N

Last edited by Beam; 07-05-2009 at 12:40 PM.
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Old 07-05-2009, 12:54 PM   #19
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go to a 1/4 mile track and most of us can help you a lot better with more track and more shifts to see what you are doing wrong...odd that you are getting a bang, do you have fluid in your diff, did you just do an install/did someone do an install and not use any grease ?
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Old 07-05-2009, 01:48 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john 1badSTI View Post
You need to short shift the first three gears--1st by 5800,2nd by 6300,3rd by 6500--then run 4th and 5th to almost 7000.You have to remember your stock cams drop off trq fairly quickly and with the load from the earlier gears you will not hit full boost until 4th gear ,so you want to get into your big boost gears as soon as possible thus short shifting.I guarentee you if you drive it like I said you should shave 1/2 a second off your time.You did not mention are you ffsing the car or letting off between gears.
That is awful advice. Why would you EVER not wrap out 1st and 2nd gear? The splits in gearing on our transmission are not suitable to short shift like that, especially for an STI with an after market turbo.
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Old 07-05-2009, 02:42 PM   #21
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I wouldn't listen to Mikey - he still can't break into the 11's haha

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Old 07-05-2009, 02:50 PM   #22
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That is awful advice. Why would you EVER not wrap out 1st and 2nd gear? The splits in gearing on our transmission are not suitable to short shift like that, especially for an STI with an after market turbo.

Its called mechanical advantage... You may make 300wtq in 4th gear at the shift point - but 3rd gear has a better mechanical advantage yielding a mechanically "higher" torque value because of the ratio..

The only reason to short shift would be a loss of 150-200wtq after a certian rpm.. Which if you have that problem, you have problems...

-Jerod
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Old 07-05-2009, 05:07 PM   #23
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Its called mechanical advantage... You may make 300wtq in 4th gear at the shift point - but 3rd gear has a better mechanical advantage yielding a mechanically "higher" torque value because of the ratio..

The only reason to short shift would be a loss of 150-200wtq after a certian rpm.. Which if you have that problem, you have problems...

-Jerod
Ok. Drive my car, shift at 5800 in 1st and 6200 in 2nd and I'll shift at 7000 in 1st and 7400 in 2nd and we'll see who goes faster to the 330'.
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Old 07-05-2009, 06:52 PM   #24
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I have a 6 speed and I lose around 100 wtq from peak torque to 7200 (where I shift) - If I short shift I lose about .4 off my 330ft time and .5-.6 off my 1/8th...

Its stupid to short shift at best, there is a mathmatical equation you could do - figure your gear ratio/mechanical advantage in that gear vs 1:1 WTQ - and figure where the lower gear would actually make less torque then the next gear when you shift... That is where you should shift...

I bet when you do the math you will find that you would have to shift around 7500-7800 rpms for this to be true...


Remember in your car, if you put down 300whp in 4th gear (1:1) in first gear your going to make around 900-1000whp to the wheels (BECAUSE OF MECHANICAL advantage..)

A mechanical engineer will agree..

Don't go thinking your engine is making more power, it isn't. Your gear ratio's amplify power output by gear ratios... You will still and always put down "380 Flywheel HP".

That is why dyno's should be done in the closest gear that creates a 1:1 FD..



-Jerod
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Old 07-05-2009, 07:58 PM   #25
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i dont think i've ever heard anyone say that before.

the problem i have with short shifting the lower gears is that you go into the next gear completely out of boost.

IE, if he shifts at 5800rpm in first and drops to 3800 rpm in 2nd he is gonna be at like 6-8psi.......whereas if he took first out to 7000rpm and got into 2nd at 5000rpm he'd be at 20+ psi.

What you're saying sounds like you're trying to drive in the area under the torque curve?

I thought you wanted to drive in the largest area under the hp curve?
I understand where you are coming from but you do not hit maximum boost in the lower gears and why run the gears out past where the cams are making power all you are doing when you drive like that is wasting time in those gears.trust me my driving skills are from trial and error and I have a very good idea what works and what doesn't.
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