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Old 07-07-2009, 12:11 AM   #1
rubinm
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Default powersteering - air in system



FIXED-

STEP 1: REPLACE EVERY CLAMP ON THE SYSTEM- EVEN THE 2 YOU CANT SEE ON THE RACK ITSELF. THE STOCK "SPRING" TYPE CLAMPS CAN LET AIR IN- EVEN IF YOU'VE NEVER TOUCHED THEM



STEP 2: REPLACE THE O-RING ON THE SUCTION SIDE OF THE TOP HOSE CONNECTION TO THE PUMP - A METRIC 10mm x 14mm x 2mm WORKED IN MY CASE.



STEP 3: BLEED THE SYSTEM PROPERLY.

more details on all of these steps can be found within this thread.

I have troubleshot and fixed the powersteering systems on multiple WRX's & STi's now, and this thread is to help those who are experiencing powersteering problems. The powersteering systems on these cars can be very fickle and will not function properly if there is even one tiny bubble within the system.





Original post:


installed a new turbo inlet pipe this weekend, and in doing so, i had to pull the powersteering banjo bolt (to snake the new pipe in - sans pulling the intake mani)

obviously i introduced air into the PS system..

question is: after a 2 days of driving (30 miles or so) the pump is still making a bit of groaning from time to time, and the wheel shudders and gets quite heavy from time to time...

is the air in the system something that will bleed itself out evenutally or is there something I can do to proactively remedy the situation?
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Last edited by rubinm; 12-04-2010 at 01:44 AM.
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Old 07-07-2009, 12:20 AM   #2
Murphdog
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Sounds like there could be air in it. The way I bleed P/S systems is to raise the font wheels off the ground and with the engine OFF and steering wheel unlocked turn the wheels from the outside, by that I mean grab one of the wheels(If you have a buddy to help have them grab the other) and turn it from lock to lock roughly ten times or so. Check your fluid level and go drive it again. Hope this helps.
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Old 07-07-2009, 12:36 AM   #3
Jim2752
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I was reading some instructions for installing a turbo kit and it said to turn the wheels all the way from one side to the other like 30 times with the car on. Make sure you keep the fluid topped off.
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Old 07-07-2009, 12:40 AM   #4
rubinm
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yeah ive read the same.

thanks guys,

the fluid is fully topped off, yet im still getting the groaning etc.. i'll put it up on the lift wed and try and get the air outta the system
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Old 07-07-2009, 02:12 PM   #5
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when i bleed the system, i do it with the cap off to get the air out, works on my mustang, never tried it on my wrx
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Old 07-07-2009, 02:25 PM   #6
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replace the o ring on the bandjo bolt, this happened to me after i replaced my radiator with a bigger one. if you move that hose even a little and the o ring is old this will happen
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Old 07-07-2009, 05:21 PM   #7
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I don't agree with the 0-ring comment but, you will have to replace the clamps on the tank to pump line. 99% of the time, on a suby, when that line is moved, you'll suck air because the clamps aren't strong enough to seal an old and hardened line.
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Old 07-07-2009, 10:03 PM   #8
rubinm
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yeah the o-ring looks fine. typically if its a copper crush washer i'd replace it, however in this case, its a black, prob steel or aluminum piece that actually goes over both the top and bottom of the bolt.

its not leaking fluid, but i still have air in the system. im gonna try to bleed it tomorrow.. also do a fluid swap.

in the mean time the system is still shaking the wheel violently and making quite a bit of noise. im avoiding driving it till i get a chance to put it up on the lift.
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Old 07-07-2009, 11:09 PM   #9
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I've solved this problem for at least 5-8 people with new clamps. They won't leak fluid with the spring clamp but, they do suck air.

Master tech at the subaru dealer told me about this. Saved me $400. I was just about to buy a new pump.
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Old 07-09-2009, 06:06 PM   #10
rubinm
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put the car up on the rack yesterday, moved the wheels back and forth by hand about 30 times... after that the fluid in the reservoir looked highly agitated with lots of little bubbles - almost a slight foam on it from all the back and forth.

siphoned out the fluid, filled it with new fresh ATF.. repeated the process...

i think i got alot of air out, the pump isnt groaning AS much, though it still lets out the occasional GrrrrroooooooOOOOOoooaaaannn...

the PS goes from perfect, to very choppy and shudders like crazy, to dead heavy wheel - randomly, from time to time..

i think there is def still some air in the system.



Kwan- whats interesting is that i havent taken off or moved ANY of the spring clamps.

the only thing i changed with the PS system was taking off the Banjo Bolt, then putting it back on after the turbo inlet pipe was installed.


im going to try and bleed the system some more today... anybody have any other tips / ideas on how to remedy the PS problem??
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Old 07-09-2009, 07:00 PM   #11
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Quote:
Kwan- whats interesting is that i havent taken off or moved ANY of the spring clamps
The amount of time you've wasted is shocking to me. 5 minutes, 2 new screw type clamps and you've either solved this or proven that it's not the problem. After you change the clamps, it'll take some time for all the air to work out of the system.

All you're doing right now is the same thing over and over, hoping that magically it'll fix itself. My idea might not solve your problem but, at least it's better than just spinning your wheels.
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Old 07-09-2009, 10:54 PM   #12
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Kwan- considering the clamps are not the root cause of the problem, nor never were, trying to troubleshoot the problem with out changing clamps is logical- not what i consider hoping it'll magically fix itself.

the air was introduced into the system from removing the Banjo feed line to the top of the PowerSteering pump. NOT leaky clamps.

before i removed the banjo, i had absolutely ZERO problems. why, suddenly overnight, the clamps would start introducing air into the system would be the Magic to me.

i'll change the clamps, but im almost 100% certain it wont fix my problem.

if anyone else has any recommendations on how to bleed a PS system please chime in.


ive put the car on the lift twice now, push/pulled the wheels back and forth slowly over and over, started the car, done the same, went lock to lock on the steering wheel with the engine running, engine off, swapped fluid 3 times,

and im still getting choppy, groaning , in-and-out powersteering.

one thing i noticed is a lot of surface bubbles on the fluid in the reservoir... this is after ive started the car and turned it off.. anyone see the same when they pop their reservoir open after a drive??
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Old 07-09-2009, 11:11 PM   #13
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Haha ok. You understand that the Banjo is on the pressure side right? If it was leaking there, you'd be spraying/leaking pressurized PS fluid all over your engine compartment. The pump can put out 1000 psi of pressure to feed the rack.

Let me ask you this then. Where is all the air coming from?

Subaru says if the fluid in the tank is aerated, turn off the engine and walk away for 30 minutes before continuing.
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Old 07-09-2009, 11:19 PM   #14
rubinm
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ok, did that ..

the fluid was aerated, waited 30 mins, started up and the bubbling /frothing happened again.


so, you're convinced its the clamps. no worries then , i'll replace the clamps tomorrow. then i guess we'll see where the air is coming from.


i really hope you are right.. i really do! i hope its as easy as the clamps. but why - clamps that were good one day suddenly go bad after i pulled a Banjo doesnt make ANY sense at all.

ive had 2 100,000 mile bugeyes in the family that have had Zero problems with the stock spring clamps. yeah, if you take them off, then they loose their clamping ability.. but i havent touched these.
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Old 07-09-2009, 11:45 PM   #15
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You most likely over tightened the banjo bolt
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Old 07-09-2009, 11:52 PM   #16
rubinm
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you should most likely tighten up your face RllyGC!
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Old 07-10-2009, 06:45 AM   #17
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All I know is you won't be tightening the banjo's on my new brakes, that's for damn sure! Or bleeding them for that matter as we can see how good a job you do at that!
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Old 07-10-2009, 03:32 PM   #18
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im having the same exact problem right now. i just installed a perrin turbo inlet hose and i have crazy amounts of air in the system that cant seem to bleed out. the only thing i moved was the banjo bolt just like Rubinm. if you guys figure out the problem please PM me THANks
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Old 07-10-2009, 03:43 PM   #19
rubinm
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Subie- today im putting on new hoseclamps on the reservoir feed and return line. if masterkwan really is the master, then this should solve the problem!

if not, im outta ideas.
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Old 07-10-2009, 04:43 PM   #20
SUBY909
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yeah ive tried turning the wheel left/right with the engine off and it seems like i get all the air out, then as soon as i start the engine and turn the wheel it starts to bubble and foam like crazy. rubinm- let me know how that goes for you.
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Old 07-10-2009, 10:59 PM   #21
SUBY909
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Lightbulb

Bump for more idea's!
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Old 07-10-2009, 11:05 PM   #22
rubinm
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Alright Kwan and Subie909-

the car has new, tight , fresh clamps on both the feed and return lines out of the reservoir.

the car STILL bubbles and foams the reservoir on start up. still groaning , choppy and heavy steering at times. Granted- im waiting a few days to see if the air comes completely out of the system, but i dont have high hopes at this point.


THE only other thing i can think of - is that the REST of the clamps on the entire system must be replaced.. Kwan- did you do that?

running out of ideas here gents
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Old 07-10-2009, 11:20 PM   #23
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Naw, just those two. The air is being sucked into the system between the tank and the pump. It worked before you messed with the inlet, there's no reason it can't work again. Something very specific to what you did near the inlet made it stop working.
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Old 07-10-2009, 11:34 PM   #24
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Yeah I've tried everything all day long and no luck. I'm just gonna take it to Subaru on Monday and see if they can fix it or warranty a new pump. It's just weird how a little bit of air can cause so much trouble.
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Old 07-11-2009, 02:06 AM   #25
rubinm
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Kwan - you may just be the Master..

drove the car for about 20 miles this evening, it seems about 90% better! still getting a touch of shudder, but the groaning is gone, as is the dead heavy steering..

i really cant believe it. i guess even though i didnt mess with the clamps during the inlet install, and the air originally was introduced into the system via removing the banjo bolt, the suction of the pump trying to pull fluid was strong enough to suck air into the system through the stock spring clamps ..

the clamps NEVER leaked. but, i guess they can be weak enough to leak air!

im going to let the car sit overnight now, then drive it again, perhaps change my fluid again, and hopefully this will take care of the problem.

wow.. loosen a banjo, get air in the system, have an impossible time trying to bleed it, and two completely separate hose clamps on the system end up being the solution .. just wow.

Kwan, thanks for the tip and for putting up with us "a hose clamp can fix it" believers
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