Travel part II - even more preaching

Turn in Concepts · 07-07-2009, 06:57 PM

So, we got some of the GoPro wide angle cameras in here at the shop, and we HAD to open a couple for "testing." Afterall, we need to be able to answer questions on the product so we have to be familiar with it.

I screwed around, and put one on TiC Jr's RC car. Ty actually did some real work and attached them to his car.

So, here we have an 05 NA Wagon running D-specs and STi take-offs. Driving down a NORMAL road. The exact same type of road that you would drive every day yourself, much in a manner like you would drive it every day yourself.

Even in a non-motorsports environment you can see how much the suspension really moves, and you can further see why we preach so much on travel.

YouTube - suspension

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PARANOID56 · 07-07-2009, 09:18 PM

can you set me up with something that has like 10" of travle?

and was that some air under the tire at the end?

Daishi00 · 07-07-2009, 09:34 PM

Great video guys. Really helps point out how much travel you truly need just on the street.

Turn in Concepts · 07-07-2009, 10:35 PM

Had I been thinking I would have taken one with me today so that I could put it on the car when I am driving around Chicago tomorrow.

Tony

RaceFaceXC · 07-07-2009, 11:17 PM

was that played at a faster rate than it was recorded or was Ty doing 85 down the backroads? :-)

williaty · 07-07-2009, 11:39 PM

...It's the fact that the camera has a 170* angle of view. And the fact that it was about 18" off the ground. Really. I swear.

You guys really should see the original file. Before YouTube murdered it, it was FAR easier to see just how far the wheel is moving up and down. It's easily cycling through 5.5-6" of travel, which is almost everything this setup has to offer from full droop to full compression of the bumpstop.

The first long clip is of me driving down a normal road. Not exceptionally smooth, not exceptionally rough. You wouldn't have given it a second though driving on it.

The second, shorter, clip is me reversing and then driving slowly down the driveway. At less than 5mph, you can see that the rear suspension is moving more than 3" at the wheels. Just driving down a driveway slowly!

The final, short clip is going up into a gas station. The thing is, that's not a big bump. It's not a bump that would make you think "man! that was a big bump!". It wasn't even a bump that would have made someone from SCIC worry about scraping their bodykit. It was just a normal entrance to a gas station and yet it picked the rear wheel up off the ground for an instant even though I'm running a small rear sway!

Now, considering all this, where do you think it leaves those guys who have S.Techs, Megans, BC Racings? They're screwed. Just driving down my driveway requires more travel than those setups offer from hard on full droop to solid compression of the bumpstop. You NEED more travel than cheap crap coilovers and lowering springs allow.

And in all honesty, I was doing 55-60mph down that road. The camera's angle of view and position really do exaggerate the perception of speed.

PARANOID56 · 07-08-2009, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by williaty

It wasn't even a bump that would have made someone from SCIC worry about scraping their bodykit. .

lol jerk

Spenk · 07-08-2009, 12:09 AM

Whee-hoo!

You sure have some exciting roads in the Midwest.

(I <3 travel)

williaty · 07-08-2009, 12:11 AM

Actually, that wasn't even a very interesting road. If I can steal the camera again, I'll try to take it somewhere where the suspension gets a real workout.

Spenk · 07-08-2009, 12:21 AM

IByoursarcasmometerneedsafluidswap.

wantsti · 07-08-2009, 12:31 AM

i wanna see a video of it on a car with s-techs or some cheap coilovers that would be interesting to compare the two. I would also like to see some of the tarmac 2's and tic coilovers.

williaty · 07-08-2009, 12:49 AM

Hmm.. the bad suspension one may be hard. I've fixed all my friends' cars.

Take a look at this vid starting at 12:20

Redline Time Attack Round 3 Debrief Show - Car Videos on StreetFire

That's got TiC SSTs on it. You can see that even though it's a race-prepped, high spring rate, sticky tired track car, the rear wheels are still moving up and down several inches.

More importantly, they're moving up and down several inches in a controlled manner. Because the suspension isn't slamming to full droop or fully compressing the bumpstop, the damper is able to control the movement of the wheel without upsetting the chassis or the tire contact patch. The whole point of suspension is to keep the tire in even contact with the ground without upsetting the chassis. If you keep the suspension within the working travel of the suspension, the tire will have good grip. If you hit either end of the travel of the suspension, the tire will slip (even if microscopically). You'll either unload the tire (pick it up) if you don't have enough droop travel or overload it if you don't have enough bump travel (smash it into the pavement, then actually end up picking it up milliseconds later as the chassis gets knocked out of whack by the bump).

If you've been to any sort of driver training, I'm sure you've been told to keep your driving inputs smooth. Rough or jerky inputs upset the chassis, piss off the tire contact patch, and make you slow. Exactly the same idea applies to the suspension. You need to keep the suspension moving smoothly without any jerks or bangs (aka, don't hit the end of travel) to keep the tire in good contact with the ground. If you're not keeping the tire in proper contact with the ground, you're slow.

Period.

sti robot · 07-08-2009, 08:34 AM

Go here:

http://physmo.sourceforge.net/

Nerd out.

Take video.

Get a pretty accurate measure of suspension travel over time.

Back Road Runner · 07-08-2009, 08:17 PM

Hopefully some folks start to realize slamming their cars and getting ride of wheel gap isn't the right thing to do.

I swear, all we really need for this community is some good aftermarket fender flares to take out the visual gap, and folks would stop trying to slam their cars all the time.

One of the better things I've done with my car is raise it back up. The car just gets easier to drive too since it doesn't get upset over rough road. I've auto-xed on courses where I see other folks getting air over a section, and I drive over it with my car and really don't notice anything at all.

I even rally-x my car using springs double that of stock, and the ride is frankly comfy on a rutted track only shallowed by the chassis and bumpers of the lower sedan cars, even pulled another 1st place win in PA which is become a bit of a trend. Even for just daily driving, my taller, stiffer suspension is a more pleasant ride then my lower, softer setups that I used to run.

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07-07-2009, 09:18 PM	#2
PARANOID56 Scooby Specialist Member#: 22035 Join Date: Jul 2002 Chapter/Region: SCIC Location: San Diego, CA Vehicle: 2008 STI White	can you set me up with something that has like 10" of travle? and was that some air under the tire at the end?

07-07-2009, 09:34 PM	#3
Daishi00 Scooby Guru Member#: 78952 Join Date: Jan 2005 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: BSG junkie Vehicle: 2005 WRX CGM	Great video guys. Really helps point out how much travel you truly need just on the street.

07-07-2009, 10:35 PM	#4
Turn in Concepts NASIOC Vendor Member#: 93646 Join Date: Aug 2005 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Vehicle: RTA 2009 Street AWD National Champs!	Had I been thinking I would have taken one with me today so that I could put it on the car when I am driving around Chicago tomorrow. Tony

07-07-2009, 11:17 PM	#5
RaceFaceXC Scooby Specialist Member#: 165749 Join Date: Dec 2007 Chapter/Region: South East Location: stupid Florida Vehicle: 2007 No YELLING on the bus!	was that played at a faster rate than it was recorded or was Ty doing 85 down the backroads? :-)

07-07-2009, 11:39 PM	#6
williaty Scooby Guru Member#: 71092 Join Date: Sep 2004 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Delaware County, Ohio Vehicle: 2005 2.5RS Wagon Regal Blue Pearl	...It's the fact that the camera has a 170* angle of view. And the fact that it was about 18" off the ground. Really. I swear. You guys really should see the original file. Before YouTube murdered it, it was FAR easier to see just how far the wheel is moving up and down. It's easily cycling through 5.5-6" of travel, which is almost everything this setup has to offer from full droop to full compression of the bumpstop. The first long clip is of me driving down a normal road. Not exceptionally smooth, not exceptionally rough. You wouldn't have given it a second though driving on it. The second, shorter, clip is me reversing and then driving slowly down the driveway. At less than 5mph, you can see that the rear suspension is moving more than 3" at the wheels. Just driving down a driveway slowly! The final, short clip is going up into a gas station. The thing is, that's not a big bump. It's not a bump that would make you think "man! that was a big bump!". It wasn't even a bump that would have made someone from SCIC worry about scraping their bodykit. It was just a normal entrance to a gas station and yet it picked the rear wheel up off the ground for an instant even though I'm running a small rear sway! Now, considering all this, where do you think it leaves those guys who have S.Techs, Megans, BC Racings? They're screwed. Just driving down my driveway requires more travel than those setups offer from hard on full droop to solid compression of the bumpstop. You NEED more travel than cheap crap coilovers and lowering springs allow. And in all honesty, I was doing 55-60mph down that road. The camera's angle of view and position really do exaggerate the perception of speed.

07-08-2009, 12:09 AM	#8
Spenk Scooby Specialist Member#: 7164 Join Date: Jun 2001 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: United States of Disarray Vehicle: As seen on TV! GT3076R sleeper wagon	Whee-hoo! You sure have some exciting roads in the Midwest. (I <3 travel)

07-08-2009, 12:11 AM	#9
williaty Scooby Guru Member#: 71092 Join Date: Sep 2004 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Delaware County, Ohio Vehicle: 2005 2.5RS Wagon Regal Blue Pearl	Actually, that wasn't even a very interesting road. If I can steal the camera again, I'll try to take it somewhere where the suspension gets a real workout.

07-08-2009, 12:21 AM	#10
Spenk Scooby Specialist Member#: 7164 Join Date: Jun 2001 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: United States of Disarray Vehicle: As seen on TV! GT3076R sleeper wagon	IByoursarcasmometerneedsafluidswap.

07-08-2009, 12:31 AM	#11
wantsti Scooby Specialist Member#: 134764 Join Date: Dec 2006 Chapter/Region: RMIC Location: Lindon, Utah Vehicle: 2004 sti java black pearl	i wanna see a video of it on a car with s-techs or some cheap coilovers that would be interesting to compare the two. I would also like to see some of the tarmac 2's and tic coilovers.

07-08-2009, 08:34 AM	#13
sti robot Scooby Specialist Member#: 110932 Join Date: Mar 2006 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: iwsti/Bristow, VA Vehicle: 04 sti jbp/gold silver pilot-baby hauler	Go here: http://physmo.sourceforge.net/ Nerd out. Take video. Get a pretty accurate measure of suspension travel over time.

07-08-2009, 08:17 PM	#14
Back Road Runner Scooby Specialist Member#: 60082 Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Minnesota Vehicle: 2002 Forester Blue	Hopefully some folks start to realize slamming their cars and getting ride of wheel gap isn't the right thing to do. I swear, all we really need for this community is some good aftermarket fender flares to take out the visual gap, and folks would stop trying to slam their cars all the time. One of the better things I've done with my car is raise it back up. The car just gets easier to drive too since it doesn't get upset over rough road. I've auto-xed on courses where I see other folks getting air over a section, and I drive over it with my car and really don't notice anything at all. I even rally-x my car using springs double that of stock, and the ride is frankly comfy on a rutted track only shallowed by the chassis and bumpers of the lower sedan cars, even pulled another 1st place win in PA which is become a bit of a trend. Even for just daily driving, my taller, stiffer suspension is a more pleasant ride then my lower, softer setups that I used to run.