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Old 07-09-2009, 07:49 PM   #1
SurfWagon
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Default A2W intercooler and AutoX

I've seen some old threads with cars running A2W intercoolers and was wondering if anyone runs one for autoX. They seem like they could be benificial in that you could load it with ice and a shorter air path from turbo to intake. I guess it could reduce heat soak when compared to a TMIC, but might be more prone than a FMIC. Cons would be weight at the front of the car (water filled heat exchanger) and possibility of pump failure (although you could run a temp gauge to make sure things are working.

So, anyone running one? Any comments?
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Old 07-11-2009, 03:58 PM   #2
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I am planning on switching to a A2W intercooler this winter, if you run an ice chest for the circulating water you will never heatsoak an air to water intercooler. The weight is not much more than a FMIC when you consider the extra piping, and you can locate it at the rear of the engine compartment where it does not as adversely affect the CoG as a FMIC.
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Old 07-11-2009, 04:09 PM   #3
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A TMIC cools off almost immediately after you start at autox. You can build a fan setup to cool the IC between runs to keep the temps down. An A2W setup could definitely work though and work well. Just more complex.
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Old 07-11-2009, 04:21 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by speedyHAM View Post
I am planning on switching to a A2W intercooler this winter, if you run an ice chest for the circulating water you will never heatsoak an air to water intercooler. The weight is not much more than a FMIC when you consider the extra piping, and you can locate it at the rear of the engine compartment where it does not as adversely affect the CoG as a FMIC.
for you, you could actually mount it just forward of the shifter or glovebox/heater core area or even in the ECU location and have the ice box in the back seat or passenger seat...more central weight and lower location too.
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Old 07-14-2009, 09:13 AM   #5
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My friend's A2W intercooler sprung a leak on his RSX at our last event, and almost hydrolocked the motor. Just something to consider.
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Old 07-14-2009, 11:26 AM   #6
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That sucks! Well I wouldn't be planning on doing this for a bit. There just seems to be a black box fear of A2W on the net. "It's so complicated" It's a radiator and a pump! Yes, it now has moving parts, but worst case if the pump fails, You see your water temps going up....don't push the car. Also all this stuff about it heating your intake while not on boost. There is a certain amount of heat energy created by the compressor, and both systems transfer it to a radiator in the front of the car (FMIC core or true heat exchanger). As long as both of those sstems can disipate that heat t near the same rate, there will be no difference. If your heat exchanger was too small, you could send heat back...so get a large exchanger...or even two. If you use too large of a FMIC it just creates additional lag. No people argue about multiplying the two "transfer efficiencies" of A2w and being less than A2A, but they pull numbers out of their ass. A2W peole also pull numbers from the same place, but the good arguement was made about most cars being watercooled now (although I do love the sound of some of those air cooled porsches).

Done with my rant, but the main thing that bothers me is all the non-A2W users regurging info.

But we can add another CON to A2W....possible hydrolock!
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Old 07-14-2009, 11:29 AM   #7
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I'm sure that the likelyhood of that happening again is a long shot, so I probably wouldn't worry too much about it.
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Old 07-14-2009, 11:34 AM   #8
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yes, hydrolock is a fear if you have a poorly constructed core...did your buddy have a cheapo ebay core?
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Old 07-14-2009, 11:34 AM   #9
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He had one custom made. So probably.
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Old 07-14-2009, 11:42 AM   #10
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Do you know if they did a submerged pressure test prior to installation?

Regardless, glad he didn't lock the motor.

The one thing I would really balance out pros and cons of the two options...

option 1 for me would be the A/W system
pros
-excellent cooling if sized properly
-various packaging/weight distribustion locations for core, heat exchanger, and ice box
cons
-more pieces/parts
-most likely heavier with a decent chunk of weight being added to the nose (heat exchanger full of water)

option 2 would be TMIC with water injection (or alcohol)
pros
-most likely lighter
-water injection can be trunk mounted
-can decrease lag
-alcohol = high octane
cons
-tmic = higher mounted weight
-extra pieces parts (moot as both have added parts)

Option 3; FMIC if you wanted to compare
pros
excellent cooling
fewer parts...none electrical or moving
cons
increased lag
increased weight on the nose
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Old 07-15-2009, 05:32 PM   #11
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only water injection is allowed (alco=illegal for scca autox...). Most fmics require you to cut remove or replace the front bumper beam. That can't be changed and I think there's a rule that only 1lb can be removed to make a fmic work.

Last edited by xcdhridr; 07-15-2009 at 05:37 PM.
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Old 07-15-2009, 06:30 PM   #12
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That can be worked around....it'll be ugly and autocross specific..... but it can be done.

C'mon....are AMod's pretty? Hell/no....but they go like stink!!!!!

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Old 07-16-2009, 09:25 AM   #13
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They make some heat exchangers that are only 1" thick and the size of the radiator, so it could probably fit behind the bumper beam. That would certaily give you a lot of surface area. Only probably I see is it beeing close to the radiator and picking up heat.
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Old 07-16-2009, 10:39 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xcdhridr View Post
only water injection is allowed (alco=illegal for scca autox...). Most fmics require you to cut remove or replace the front bumper beam. That can't be changed and I think there's a rule that only 1lb can be removed to make a fmic work.
Depends on what class you are in for the bumper beams. XP is fun.
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Old 07-17-2009, 01:06 AM   #15
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Just as a reminder, alcohol injection is NOT completely illegal. It just is as a stand alone system.

There is nothing illegal about E85 tho...
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Old 07-17-2009, 01:47 AM   #16
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I'd remove my FMIC tomorrow if I could come up with a nice W2A set up. I hope to fa one up over the winter using a PWR core.
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Old 07-17-2009, 08:59 AM   #17
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Anyone have anyclever spots to mount the heat exchanger?...on a DD, not a gutted car

It could even be two smaller ones in series.
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Old 07-17-2009, 09:10 AM   #18
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i remember seeing someone who took one of the old tmic's with the metal endtanks and welded a plate over the top and bottom and basically turned it into an air to water...

he put a drain on the bottom and a feed hole on the top... hooked a 12v pump up that cycled water through a heat exchanger...

iirc the setup spooled very fast, cooled to temps to ambient (colder if he added cold water/ice) and was very consistent.

Like others have said, its a bit more involved but if you can get it working correctly, the benefits will show. Imagine running meth on top of that !!
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Old 07-17-2009, 04:23 PM   #19
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Looked in front of the AC condensor of my bugeye today. After some measurements, looks like I could fit the 12x24x1 heat exchanger in front....however, there is also the one that I could put in place of my FMIC, which is ~26x7x3. I like the idea of big surface area, but I also like the idea of not blocking the path to the radiator and AC...and not picking up any of their heat.
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Old 07-17-2009, 06:19 PM   #20
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I have one that Chad Block made some time ago that I was going to use on my SM car. I'm currently selling the setup if anyone is interested. Includes pretty much everything you would need except a resevoir. It's a large core TMIC with welded endtanks and a front heat exchanger.
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