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Old 04-29-2002, 06:49 PM   #1
dyswtric27
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endless.night

Question Spooling problems?

Hi everyone,

Heres the problem with my turbo setup (Ludespeed stage III):

I went out the other night to race some RS's in syracuse with not much luck. I am dead even with them in 1st and 2nd gear, since my boost won't go above 1 maybe 1.5 psi. Then in 3rd i will hold about 2 psi up until 4750 or 5000 where it will then pull hard all the way to 5 or 6 psi (where the wastegate is set at). Thats when i finally pull away from the NA RS.

What i can't figure out is why i don't have full boost, or even close to full boost in 1st and 2nd gear. I know they are extremely short, but still 3rd gear shouldn't have to wait until 5k to start getting boost. I have talked to Tom and he thinks that the turbo may be too big for my car, not really sure why. So i may be switching to the smaller T3.

Before i do that I want to see if there are any suggestions. Is it possible that the wastegate is not letting the turbo spool or is it that the turbo is just plain not spooling.

For reference i have a 2000 RS, with all the goodies of the Ludespeed stage III turbo kit, and an AFC which i use in series with the SS voltage clamp. This allows me to lean it out in the upper rpms. I have done this to get it to spool a little quicker but the EGTs skyrocket so im a little weary to lean it out anymore.

Any ideas???

Jason
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Old 04-29-2002, 06:59 PM   #2
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Not sure about the AFC... IIRC, they don't really do much for a MY00-01.... More like you should be using a RRFPR if your not already...
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Old 04-29-2002, 07:10 PM   #3
dyswtric27
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Yeah i have the cartech rrfpr installed and is working fine. Yeah people have said the AFC won't work on the MY00 but i have some limited proof it does. Since the AFC can change the MAP signal by a % if you put -15% on the AFC and the MAP signal coming in is say 5V (which is over what the Voltage Clamp is set at) then the AFC will put out a voltage of 4.25V (which it should do). This is below the Voltage clamps voltage and therefore passes right through and gives the ECU a voltage of 4.25 which is leaned out from the original 5V.

Does this seem to make sense? I know that it works since when i lean it out with the AFC i can see the EGTs go up much faster.

Jason
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Old 04-29-2002, 09:06 PM   #4
Graham
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Well, in my car, and I'm running a Legacy turbo with the stock internal wastegate, I get less boost in 1st and 2nd gear than all the others. I think this is pretty normal, as mine is only about 1-1.5 psi less. Yours on the other hand seems quite dramatic. What is the wastegate spring in your set to?

Right now I am assuming that you have an external wastegate, and if its one of the older Ludespeed kits then its probably a Deltagate. I have heard and talked to people using Deltagate wastegate's that hate them, due to boost problems and/or spiking. This could be the problem, having a faulty wastegate.

Whatever the problem is, its quite clearly related to boost control in the car, at least thats my guess.

Graham
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Old 04-29-2002, 09:11 PM   #5
dyswtric27
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Actually its a newer Ludespeed kit and has the Tial wastegate with the 6.6 psi spring. Yet it never gets past 6 psi, so i dunno about that. Thanks for the input though.

Jason
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Old 04-29-2002, 09:22 PM   #6
Graham
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So then maybe it is a spooling problem. If its the Stage III kit, then it utilizes the Turbonetics T4 charger, which is a reltively large turbo.

Did this problem just recently begin or has it always been this way? How long have you had the kit on the car?


Graham
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Old 04-29-2002, 10:40 PM   #7
dyswtric27
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I have had this problem the whole time ive had the kit, which is about 3-4 weeks now. I believe also it is the T4 turbo which is kinda big, Tom said he would do a direct swap for the T3 which i may do.

Should this be a lot better suited for the 7-9 psi range i want to run?

Jason
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Old 05-01-2002, 12:34 AM   #8
dyswtric27
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Tom thinks that when the turbo was installed (not by me) that the valve seat for the Tial wastegate was not even installed. He thinks this could cause the leak.

Does anyone know what this looks like, or how I could check to see if it actually is installed? I assume i can just pull off the wastegate and look, but i don't know what im looking for.

Thanks for the help!
Jason
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Old 05-01-2002, 12:37 AM   #9
KillerTHC
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i hope that the problem is an exhaust leak and not a turbo problem. (i have the same kit sitting in my room) i only way i can think to check is to get under the car and re-installing the wastegate. other than that, i hope you get some better results.
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Old 05-01-2002, 03:03 AM   #10
KillerTHC
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Quote:
Originally posted by dyswtric27
Tom thinks that when the turbo was installed (not by me) that the valve seat for the Tial wastegate was not even installed. He thinks this could cause the leak.

Does anyone know what this looks like, or how I could check to see if it actually is installed? I assume i can just pull off the wastegate and look, but i don't know what im looking for.

Thanks for the help!
Jason
ok the wastegate isn't that easy to pull off but it's easy to check. look under the car and find the down pipe. there should be a thing that looks (for all intents and purposes) like a blow off valve. it is also connected to the uppipe. i guess you can turn on your car and feel around for an exhaust leak or something or just listen. hopefully you can solve this problem and give me the will to go on!
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Old 05-01-2002, 06:50 AM   #11
Elliot
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Default Ludespeed turbo kit stage 1

I have a 2002 RS with a ludespeed turbo kit stage 1 and to get full boost on firts gear is hard, but you can!! I get full boost on secong gear( 4.5psi) around 2200rpms. that is just great!!!
Check the waste gate for leaks. also where did you connect the boost line to the waste gate!! check everything before you switch the turbo!!
Elliot (turboed 5 months and no problem)
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Old 05-04-2002, 10:49 PM   #12
dyswtric27
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Alright, well it seems Tom was right. The wastegate was missing the valve seat, so i put it in and i have boost. The turbo spools by 2700 and is great.

Now i have a serious problem. Initially my car seemed to be in limp mode on boost, so i checked the map voltage and everything it never went over 4.85 into the ECU(i used a voltmeter). So then we deduced it was running way too rich. So i turned the cartech (rrfpr) down and it was working great.

Now I hooked up the J&S and saw a little pinging so i had that retard the timing and i turned up the cartech to not run so lean. Now i am extremely rich in the rpms up until 5k where it starts to run lean and i get pinging. I have no idea what would cause this. The car barely crawls along in the lower rpms, although im at 6 psi of boost, like its real rich. Then around 4500 it seems the fuel is set right for the boost and it picks up and then the EGTs skyrcocket and it starts to ping.

Anyone with this kit, or similar how should i set the cartech to take care of this? What do you have your hex bolt set at, and the bleeder on the side?

Also any other ideas on why it would run so rich and then lean?

EDIT: In neutral when i rev, white clouds of smoke come out the exhaust, meaning its way rich, and this is even off boost. Does this sound like a blown O2 sensor?

THanks,
Jason

Last edited by dyswtric27; 05-04-2002 at 11:50 PM.
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Old 05-05-2002, 01:58 AM   #13
Evan J. Kelly
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I could be wrong, but this sounds like stock ECU woes...
rrfpr's can only do so much when you've got mr. crazy(the ecu) bouncin' back and forth between closed and open loop mode.

Then again, I'm positive someone has got some more info for you.

-Evan
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Old 05-05-2002, 09:28 AM   #14
AaronB
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Quote:
Originally posted by dyswtric27
EDIT: In neutral when i rev, white clouds of smoke come out the exhaust, meaning its way rich, and this is even off boost. Does this sound like a blown O2 sensor?
Running rich smoke should be black. Burning oil is blueish/white. Burning coolant/water is white.

How is you oil consumption? What does your radiator overflow tank look like? Any foreign substances that you can see in the radiator when you pop the top?

Can't you pull more timing with the J & S to eliminate the pinging?

Do you have an air fuel gauge?
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Old 05-05-2002, 12:59 PM   #15
dyswtric27
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No Air/Fuel gauge and yes i can eliminate the pinging with the J&S.

I am going to hook up the extra voltmeter on the AFC to the O2 sensor and see what its reading. Any luck on how people tune the cartech?

Jason
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Old 05-05-2002, 04:15 PM   #16
KillerTHC
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yay! i no longer shun my turbo.
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Old 05-05-2002, 07:56 PM   #17
dyswtric27
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Well i feel stupid, but not as stupid as TRI should. They were the ones who did the horrible horrible install job. Well it seems the cartech was on the IN line of the fuel lines, right off the fuel filter!!!!!!!! How crazy is that. So it was making me run so lean that the engine retarded itself.

So i went and put that on the way it should and a miracle occured in which my car works. I run fine boost, no pinging and the EGTs are good. I am now in love with the turbo.

Also on a side note, i brought new NGKs to TRI to put in too, and when i pulled out the plugs today the champions are still in there. They even charged me for install on the plugs, and took them. I have totally had it with that place!!!!!!!!!

Jason

PS. All of you guys, i sincerely thank you for your help.
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Old 05-05-2002, 08:09 PM   #18
Evan J. Kelly
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Quote:
Originally posted by dyswtric27
Also on a side note, i brought new NGKs to TRI to put in too, and when i pulled out the plugs today the champions are still in there.
Damn, that's crap.

Get 'em back, either the plugs or TRI!

Glad to hear everything else is back to normal!

Good luck with TRI,
-Evan
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Old 05-05-2002, 09:49 PM   #19
Graham
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Man if I lived in the Northeast I would have had RalliSpec do the install. Anyhow, glad to hear everythings a running, now go challenge those RS's again.

Graham
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Old 05-05-2002, 11:18 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by dyswtric27
Well i feel stupid, but not as stupid as TRI should. They were the ones who did the horrible horrible install job. Well it seems the cartech was on the IN line of the fuel lines, right off the fuel filter!!!!!!!! How crazy is that. So it was making me run so lean that the engine retarded itself.

So i went and put that on the way it should and a miracle occured in which my car works. I run fine boost, no pinging and the EGTs are good. I am now in love with the turbo.

Also on a side note, i brought new NGKs to TRI to put in too, and when i pulled out the plugs today the champions are still in there. They even charged me for install on the plugs, and took them. I have totally had it with that place!!!!!!!!!
Oh...
My...
GOD!!!
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