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Old 05-20-2009, 09:45 AM   #1
Luke@tirerack
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Default AD08 v. RE11 v. Ecsta XS v. Star Spec ... The Ultimate Street Tire Shootout

I just completed testing the RE11, AD08, Z1 Star Spec and the Ecsta XS and I would give the overall win to the RE11 due to it's superior road manners but the Yokohama was slightly faster on our test track. The Dunlop has met it's match in ultimate performance.

in my subjective opinion combining both street manners and track performance I personally would rank them in this order.

#1.) Bridgestone Potenza RE11
#2.) Yokohama ADVAN Neova AD08
#3.) Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec
#4.) Kumho Ecsta XS

admittedly the Yokohama was .2 seconds faster on our test track but, I liked the way the RE11 drove on the streets better.

The fastest street tire out there is now the Yokohama it will be king of the street tire classes at your local AutoX events.
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Last edited by Luke@tirerack; 05-20-2009 at 01:52 PM.
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Old 05-20-2009, 10:17 AM   #2
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Thanks Luke! Any idea when the official write up will be available on the website?
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Old 05-20-2009, 10:20 AM   #3
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Thanks Luke! Any idea when the official write up will be available on the website?
I was the first to complete the track portion of the test which should be complete by the end of the week so, it will be a couple of weeks
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Old 05-20-2009, 10:58 AM   #4
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Wow, the tire wars are warming up! Grassroots Motorsports magazine ran a autox shootout match for the June issue and found Ecsta XS the overall winner. It's going to be interesting to compare details of test conditions. GRM wasn't interested in manners, BTW. Just mean times and quick times. Thanks Luke!
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Old 05-20-2009, 11:23 AM   #5
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Could you give us more data on how the test was conducted as in tire sizes, wheel sizes, car used, ambient temps, track temps, etc. We need more info!
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Old 05-20-2009, 12:29 PM   #6
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I posted the GRM shootout results here a few days ago. Some other details are there, too. Some of the GRM test parameters:

Test course: Driveway Austin. New purpose-built track. Smooth surface.

Test car: '89 Civic Si owned by one of the drivers: Andy Hollis. The car was fastest in 2008 Solo National Championships.

Weather: Low to mid-60s, low humidity on a sunny day.

Tire prep and run details: Tires were inflated per best specs for each tire. All tires shaved to 3/32" for maximum dry track performance. Each tire was scrubbed-in and given a heat cycle.

Track break-in factor. The RT-615s were run as a benchmark tire. They ran four runs first and four runs last to make sure track break-in wasn't a significant factor.

Timing: AXWare

GRM didn't run the AD08 in their shoot-out so it's good to see it compared in the Tirerack test.

Last edited by yzer; 05-21-2009 at 01:55 AM.
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Old 05-20-2009, 12:48 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke@tirerack View Post
The fastest street tire out there sold by TireRack and in the size tested on the vehicle tested is now the Yokohama it will be king of the street tire classes at your local AutoX events, unless the competitors care about receiving contingency $.
Fixed that for ya'.

Since your test leaves out some capable competitors it's hardly The Ultimate Street Tire Shootout, though I do appreciate your testing, which in of itself is of value to the community. Thanks!
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Old 05-20-2009, 01:04 PM   #8
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Yep, the more shootouts the better for the consumer. I don't autox but I really look forward to when tires get close to the wear bars. I'll tailor my winter driving so I can wear tires out for fall replacement.
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Old 05-20-2009, 01:29 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by 2superblus View Post
Could you give us more data on how the test was conducted as in tire sizes, wheel sizes, car used, ambient temps, track temps, etc. We need more info!

Tire Rack's Tire Testing Program

First-hand experience and extensive training allow our sales specialists to provide expert product recommendations based on how, what and where you drive.

We make certain our team members experience as many of the products we sell as possible. Each year they participate in over 15 Ride & Drives, allowing them to compare at least 60 different products ó more in one testing season than most people experience in a lifetime of driving.

Our tests allow our sales specialists to experience each of the products in a short period of time, giving them a real back-to-back comparison under controlled conditions. To keep the evaluations consistent we use identical vehicles (except for color), the same Real World Road Ride route and the same Performance Test Track course. During each evaluation, the only things that really change are the products we are testing.



Real World Road Rides
Our 5.6 mile Real World Road Ride loop allows our team to experience ride, noise and light handling qualities across the variety of conditions our customers drive on every day. We include two-lane roads, four-lane roads and expressways, as well as surfaces that include chipped stone in tar (rough and irregular), asphalt (some very smooth areas while others are patched) and concrete (complete with expansion joints and some studded tire wear). The vehicle conditions that would affect the results are kept to a minimum with the radio off, windows up and climate control fan on its lowest setting. This allows us to focus on each productís contribution to ride, noise and light handling qualities without unnecessary distractions.

Performance Test Track Drives
Our purpose-built test track located adjacent to our South Bend headquarters allows our team to find out how each product behaves under the extremes of emergency situations on the road. The test track is dedicated to testing during the week while car clubs use it for autocross competition on weekends. However since it is never used as a parking lot, parked vehicles donít create isolated slick spots by dripping gas, oil and antifreeze. Our team members run multiple laps of our test course to challenge the carís steering response, handling, braking and cornering capabilities and we time selected track segments to quantify the productís contribution to the vehicleís handling and maximum cornering capability.



Panic Stopping Tests
Life seldom depends on how fast you go but how well you stop really can make a difference. And while todayís four-wheel disc and anti-lock braking systems often get the majority of praise, itís really the tires that convert those systemís abilities into actual stopping distances. To evaluate the contribution tires make, we conduct straight-line braking tests to accurately measure panic stopping distances. We stabilize the speed at 50 miles per hour and hit the brakes hard enough to engage the anti-lock braking system and bring the vehicle to a complete stop. We run multiple stops on each tire and use a brake performance analyzer to quantify the data and determine average stopping distances.

Dry and Wet Road Conditions
Many of today's tires deliver similar dry weather handling and performance, but the real tie breaker can be when the roads are made slippery by a rain shower. Our test track features a sprinkler system that allows us to evaluate traction, handling and braking distances under consistent wet road conditions. We also test tires in the snow when Mother Nature obliges, and on the ice of a hockey rink.



Sharing What Weíve Learned
Following every Ride & Drive, our teamís evaluation of each productís comfort and performance is scored on a scale of one to ten, with ten being the highest. Additionally, each driverís lap times during the Performance Track Drive are recorded with a competition lap timer and the fastest laps are averaged to help quantify the tireís performance capabilities on the track. We have found that our teamís driving experience and insight reflects that of our customers. They are a combination of racers, autocrossers and enthusiasts whose evaluations provide an excellent overview of the variety of products we test. After all, experience really is the best teacher.
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Old 05-20-2009, 01:32 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by gregr01 View Post
Fixed that for ya'.
sorry, don't see any fixes or the need for any

but I think it's quite humorous that you put this in there

Quote:
Originally Posted by gregr01 View Post
"unless the competitors care about receiving contingency $"
like the Bridgestone contigency program and even then contigency money does not make a tire faster

Last edited by Luke@tirerack; 05-20-2009 at 03:30 PM.
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Old 05-20-2009, 01:36 PM   #11
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GRM didn't run the AD08 in their shoot-out so it's good to see it compared in the Tirerack test.
and the Dunlop was a 195/55-15 size and the RE01R 195/50-15 size while all of the others were 205/50-15

Last edited by Luke@tirerack; 05-20-2009 at 01:56 PM.
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Old 05-20-2009, 10:46 PM   #12
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Luke- vehicle used? rim/tire size?

I don't think anyone doubted the new Yoko would be in the right in the mix

thanks
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Old 05-20-2009, 10:50 PM   #13
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and what tire will still give good performance after 5k street miles and dd heatcycles??? or even 10k miles of dd use???

These are things that many dont consider and end up with shiny, hard as a rock tires with tread left on them
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Old 05-21-2009, 01:22 AM   #14
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I'm curious how the Kumho XS was timewise vs. the AD08s. GRM had the Kumhos as the fastest tire. The reason being. It's the cheapest tire by far and if it's just a tick slower than the AD08s, that's my new next set of tires.
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Old 05-21-2009, 01:23 AM   #15
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BTW, are you using the 225/45/17s on a BMW like most of your tests?
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Old 05-21-2009, 02:52 AM   #16
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and what tire will still give good performance after 5k street miles and dd heatcycles??? or even 10k miles of dd use???

These are things that many dont consider and end up with shiny, hard as a rock tires with tread left on them
That's a real good point. I guess the answer is all tires: racing tires, street/track tires (like these) and street only tires all continue to vulcanize and harden with heat cycles and other factors like ozone and UV.

If you follow F1 you know that the competitive life of the super soft tires is only a single lap. Race tires have the most limited performance life.

When you get into street tires and street/track it's another ball game. We're not talking about R compound. In competition the street/tracks also benefit from that first heat cycle: it makes them more consistent during the peak performance life of the tire. How many heat cycles the tire can take and remain at peak performance will vary by the tire but it is many more cycles than that F1 super soft.

I drove three sets of Ecsta MXs for DD with some fun on turns and ramps every day. There was also some spirited driving on most weekends. I got 34-42K miles and two years off of each set. The tires developed more dry grip as the tread wore down and I'm very sure those tires weren't as hard as rocks after two years. They still felt fairly soft with the thumbnail test and gripped like crazy.

SCCA is big on street tire competition because most drivers don't have to buy new tires for every track day. If they did, very few enthusiasts could afford it. If you compete at the higher levels then you consider shaving tires and watching heat cycles more carefully. If you aren't, it's not so important. If you are an enthusiast who uses the tires for DD then you are happy in carving the twisties with the best performance level in street tires for the next couple of years. Start with a faster tire and end with a faster tire. That all-season will be aging as well.

Last edited by yzer; 05-21-2009 at 03:04 AM.
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Old 05-21-2009, 10:08 AM   #17
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That's a real good point. I guess the answer is all tires: racing tires, street/track tires (like these) and street only tires all continue to vulcanize and harden with heat cycles and other factors like ozone and UV.

If you follow F1 you know that the competitive life of the super soft tires is only a single lap. Race tires have the most limited performance life.

When you get into street tires and street/track it's another ball game. We're not talking about R compound. In competition the street/tracks also benefit from that first heat cycle: it makes them more consistent during the peak performance life of the tire. How many heat cycles the tire can take and remain at peak performance will vary by the tire but it is many more cycles than that F1 super soft.

I drove three sets of Ecsta MXs for DD with some fun on turns and ramps every day. There was also some spirited driving on most weekends. I got 34-42K miles and two years off of each set. The tires developed more dry grip as the tread wore down and I'm very sure those tires weren't as hard as rocks after two years. They still felt fairly soft with the thumbnail test and gripped like crazy.

SCCA is big on street tire competition because most drivers don't have to buy new tires for every track day. If they did, very few enthusiasts could afford it. If you compete at the higher levels then you consider shaving tires and watching heat cycles more carefully. If you aren't, it's not so important. If you are an enthusiast who uses the tires for DD then you are happy in carving the twisties with the best performance level in street tires for the next couple of years. Start with a faster tire and end with a faster tire. That all-season will be aging as well.

you keep going back to those bloody bleeding mx's

I had them and liked them....but tires are not all the same and many DO heatcycle and get hard as rocks and become useless...had that happen to me and others I know with various tires.

I dont want conjecture or guesses....I want someone to post their actual findings.
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Old 05-21-2009, 10:20 AM   #18
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and what tire will still give good performance after 5k street miles and dd heatcycles??? or even 10k miles of dd use???

These are things that many dont consider and end up with shiny, hard as a rock tires with tread left on them
last year I got about 7k miles out of the RE01-Rs on my car, which included many track days and even more AutoX's, and fully expect that type of wear from the new crop of extreme performance tires
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Old 05-21-2009, 10:25 AM   #19
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I drove three sets of Ecsta MXs for DD with some fun on turns and ramps every day. There was also some spirited driving on most weekends. I got 34-42K miles and two years off of each set.
30k+ miles out of MX's

some spirited driving for what .5 miles once a month I mean really to get that many miles on those tires you had to be cruising on the interstate almost 100% of the time. You really did not lean on them at all.
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Old 05-21-2009, 10:59 AM   #20
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cars = our 4 BMW 328i
size = 225/45-17
temps = high 70's
yesterday was dry testing
today is wet testing

at the end of the day yesterday the Kumho was looking better and had even posted some times which were faster than both the AD08 and RE11. We know that different driving styles generate different results. Comments from others is that the sidewalls of the Kumhos are not as responsive as the RE11 and AD08 but ultimate grip levels are on par. In the end all of them are really close in performance in the dry and today we shall see who does well in the wet. Ride quality, which is purely subjective, could wind up deciding which tire wins this round of testing.

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Old 05-21-2009, 11:19 AM   #21
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Awesome! Thanks for the info. I can't wait to read the full test results.
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Old 05-21-2009, 02:08 PM   #22
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30k+ miles out of MX's

some spirited driving for what .5 miles once a month I mean really to get that many miles on those tires you had to be cruising on the interstate almost 100% of the time. You really did not lean on them at all.
You are close to being spot on. When I drove those sets I was doing 250 miles of straight, boring interstate to work and back every week. Because of my hours I had the ramps and a couple of turns all to myself most of the time. Running those every day kept me looking forward to the drive.

On the weekends I always count on a drive that gives me 90 miles of county 2-lanes and a dozen or so nice turns.

For two years I added 800 miles up and down the Pacific coast every three weeks to the mix. About half of that was freeway and other half was really good twisty 2-lane. That was the set that got the least miles.

My opportunity to enjoy the performance ability of the MXs represented a small percentage of the total miles but at that price, why not? Now that I'm working closer to home the percentage of fun driving miles is higher. I was familiar enough with the performing limits of the MX that advantages of the XS were obvious.
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Old 05-21-2009, 02:14 PM   #23
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Nice info.

I have perhaps a N00b question. Since these tires are road/track tires I was wondering if they require more warm up then slightly less aggressive tires? ie, in the spring and fall in the rain, will they take longer to heat up to optimal/acceptable performance levels?

Having come from tracking motorcycles, I know that was always a concern with the track tires with treads for the guys who run them.
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Old 05-21-2009, 04:28 PM   #24
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no more than most high performance tires
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Old 05-21-2009, 05:09 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke@tirerack View Post
cars = our 4 BMW 328i
size = 225/45-17
temps = high 70's
yesterday was dry testing
today is wet testing

In the end all of them are really close in performance in the dry and today we shall see who does well in the wet. Ride quality, which is purely subjective, could wind up deciding which tire wins this round of testing.
Well, here's where you really have me hooked. With muddy shoulders and roadside ditches being what they are around here I don't push things in the wet very far. That's where tracking has it's advantages. Looking forward to seeing how these new tires compare on the wet. The GRM shootout was dry track only.
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