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Old 07-14-2009, 12:08 PM   #1
Ferret13
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Default Rotors for the track

Want to swap rotors on my 2002 WRX - need some input fro those more experienced...

What rotors are you running for track events?
Why did you choose them? Pros/Cons???
How well do they hold up (# of events you get out of them)??
Thanks!!
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Old 07-14-2009, 12:47 PM   #2
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$28 Autozone blanks. If you're hard on brakes, you'll kill rotors quickly regardless of the brand.

Better to tear through generic blanks than fancy rotors. Just not enough mass for the weight of the car.

I get 6-8 days on a set of blanks. That has held true with DBA's, OEM blanks, and the cheapest blanks I could find. With the exception of the unpainted hat, and a little less machining on non-contact surfaces, they are perfectly acceptable. Iron it is. The local Vette guys buy them by the pallet and just run through them.

Last edited by REX8; 07-14-2009 at 12:56 PM.
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Old 07-14-2009, 02:09 PM   #3
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We use and race with Mountain or Centric Blanks, depending on which ones are available for the application.

-mike
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Old 07-14-2009, 05:05 PM   #4
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Thanks guys!
Anyone else want to chime in on this?
I purchased DBA 5000's but am having buyer's remorse...
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Old 07-14-2009, 08:23 PM   #5
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.. the cheapest ones you can get a hold of. and buy lots!

When I was running the wrx I was going through front rotors as fast as brake pads.
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Old 07-14-2009, 09:12 PM   #6
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^ i totally agree, because the rotors are trashed after running on the track for the full day.
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Old 07-15-2009, 12:50 AM   #7
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generic blanks ftw. i don't want to tear thru my brake pads faster with slotted/drilled rotors. i'm not competing, so i'm not going to spend a lot of money for extra lite rotors. and i saw paisan's DBA 4000s start spider cracking after an event or two.
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Old 07-15-2009, 03:14 AM   #8
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Well since I sell this stuff every single day I have data and not just my own.

The cheap rotors consistently fail unexpectedly when used hard. The good rotors do not. Furthermore the better rotors fail less catastrophically. That is not my opinion.

I'm sorry but iron is not iron and rotors are not rotors. That data is inarguable.

You might have been fine buying a good 1 piece rotor and saving some $$ - the benefits of 2 piece are NOT and WILL NEVER be linear w/ the price difference opposed to 1 piece.

But the 1 piece OE replacement rotors that China is making are like most every other chinese product. Inconsistent, semi or even fully shoddy copies w/ random shortcuts taken. I can't believe they are so cavalier w/ the changes they make as if they actually engineered it or tested the 'changes'.
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Old 07-15-2009, 04:17 AM   #9
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I would agree with WRXBrakes. Iron is not all the same.

On my Z06 I have always used stock GM rotors or napa rotors but I happened across a deal on some nice stoptech 2 pieces recently. With the GM rotors I can get 6 days out of them, with NAPA rotors I would only get 2 days out of them, and with the stoptech 2 piece rotors I have 4 days on so far and they still look brand new. With the stoptechs I expect to get 20-30 days out of them!

That said... If I needed rotors again I still would have a hard time justifying spending $600.

But to the OP - Ferret13 - Are your rotors trashed? From your post it sounds like you just 'want' new rotors but don't need them yet. If so drive on what you have for as long as you can.
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Old 07-15-2009, 07:59 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXBrakes View Post
Well since I sell this stuff every single day I have data and not just my own.

The cheap rotors consistently fail unexpectedly when used hard. The good rotors do not. Furthermore the better rotors fail less catastrophically. That is not my opinion.

I'm sorry but iron is not iron and rotors are not rotors. That data is inarguable.
I think the point is, expensive rotors, with more advantageous iron compositions, fail just as quickly on under-braked cars such as a WRX on a stock brake system.

I wouldn't give the same advice to an STi driver, or an owner with a BBK. But for a stock-braked WRX, the results are damn clear (from my own experience, as well as countless others). We generally get the same number of days (before stress cracks become too prominent to be safe) out of generic rotors as we do expensive rotors (DBA 4/5k for example).

So in instances where the rotor composition is NOT the limiting factor, it makes no sense to spend the extra money. Hell, even if your $200 rotors last twice as long, it makes absolutely no sense to run them over rotors which cost 1/4 of the price. Maybe for your daily-driven rotors, you woudl see more life out of a higher quality rotors, however, if you're heat cycling them to death, there is just no reason to dump all that money out the window. I know, I have. As have every other guy running undersized brakes.

And I'd like to see your data on the expensive rotors failing "less catastrophically" My largest "explosion" of a rotor happened on the most expensive set I've ever owned.

Again, I'm not sure anyone would argue that the compounds aren't different, or if the quality is less. But in some applications, those factors make absolutely no difference at all. They are simply not limiting.
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Old 07-15-2009, 08:34 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXBrakes View Post
Well since I sell this stuff every single day I have data and not just my own.

The cheap rotors consistently fail unexpectedly when used hard. The good rotors do not. Furthermore the better rotors fail less catastrophically. That is not my opinion.

I'm sorry but iron is not iron and rotors are not rotors. That data is inarguable.

You might have been fine buying a good 1 piece rotor and saving some $$ - the benefits of 2 piece are NOT and WILL NEVER be linear w/ the price difference opposed to 1 piece.
what data do you have, and can you please share? i had a similar question to the OP's and when I polled a few people, I either got the generic blanks answer or 2-piece for minimizing heat transfer into the hub. in regards to the 2-piece benefits not being linear with price, are you insinuating that 2-piece rotors are exponentially better, but only a few times the price? and if so, better in what way? i was also told that the 2-piece rotors may require re-tightening of some kind after each track day.
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Old 07-15-2009, 08:56 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REX8 View Post
My largest "explosion" of a rotor happened on the most expensive set I've ever owned.
explain what happened, that sounds scary
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Old 07-15-2009, 10:30 AM   #13
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Thanks for all the responses - this is exactly the kind of dialog I was hoping for!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davidss View Post
But to the OP - Ferret13 - Are your rotors trashed? From your post it sounds like you just 'want' new rotors but don't need them yet. If so drive on what you have for as long as you can.
I don't just "want" new rotors. I rally-x the car and also participate in a few track days. We have been running the cheap Napa rotors for the past season. At a recent track event at Summit Point, they warped badly. This is generally not an issue for rally-x. So, we decided to continue to run the Napa rotors for rally-x events and purchase "better" rotors for use on the track. After purchasing the DBA 5000s, several folks told me they are bot worth it (especially with the replacement rotors costing $200+ each). Sooo... keep the good advice coming. We are preparing the car for a weekend at VIR and I want it to be ready! Thanks!
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Old 07-15-2009, 11:09 AM   #14
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I've been singing the praises of the NAPA rotors but, now might have to change my tune. They were fine at VIR and at Shenendoah but, two hot days on Summit Main with me pushing it for all I'm worth and I'm not as satisfied with them. They haven't failed but, they do have an odd pulsing now which might be pad deposits or might be bad rotors. I also have a vibration at 90+ that seems to have started with the new rotors (like they're not balanced well).

I change them at least once a year so, I don't need the best rotors. Just good enough to last a year.

I may have to step up to the "Premium" cheap rotors now.
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Old 07-15-2009, 11:15 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterKwan View Post
I may have to step up to the "Premium" cheap rotors now.
What brands/parts are you considering "premium?"
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Old 07-15-2009, 11:16 AM   #16
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Those NAPA rotors ARE the premium cheap rotors
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Old 07-15-2009, 11:56 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterKwan View Post
I've been singing the praises of the NAPA rotors but, now might have to change my tune. They were fine at VIR and at Shenendoah but, two hot days on Summit Main with me pushing it for all I'm worth and I'm not as satisfied with them. They haven't failed but, they do have an odd pulsing now which might be pad deposits or might be bad rotors. I also have a vibration at 90+ that seems to have started with the new rotors (like they're not balanced well).

I change them at least once a year so, I don't need the best rotors. Just good enough to last a year.

I may have to step up to the "Premium" cheap rotors now.
How do you cool down your rotors at the end of a run?

My home track is NHMS which is notoriously hard on brakes. I ALWAYS run the cool down lap with absolutely NO application of brakes. I exit the track and drive for 5 minutes back up to the gate and then into the pits with minimal brake application, only when needed for safe operation.

In 23 years, I have yet to warp a rotor on the track. I've run all over the map with cars....S4, M3, Subarus, Neon, CRX racecar, others I'd rather forget....

I will add that I try to "NASCAR brake" as it's safer in case of a failure. So I am leaving a bit of time out there, but it's far easier on the brakes. I go extrordinarily long on a set of brake pads and rotors. Replacements are the $12 variety from Autozone.

jack
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Old 07-15-2009, 02:33 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REX8 View Post
$28 Autozone blanks. If you're hard on brakes, you'll kill rotors quickly regardless of the brand.

Better to tear through generic blanks than fancy rotors. Just not enough mass for the weight of the car.

I get 6-8 days on a set of blanks. That has held true with DBA's, OEM blanks, and the cheapest blanks I could find. With the exception of the unpainted hat, and a little less machining on non-contact surfaces, they are perfectly acceptable. Iron it is. The local Vette guys buy them by the pallet and just run through them.
Are you running cheap pads too?
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Old 07-15-2009, 02:45 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack ffr1846 View Post
How do you cool down your rotors at the end of a run?

My home track is NHMS which is notoriously hard on brakes. I ALWAYS run the cool down lap with absolutely NO application of brakes. I exit the track and drive for 5 minutes back up to the gate and then into the pits with minimal brake application, only when needed for safe operation.

In 23 years, I have yet to warp a rotor on the track. I've run all over the map with cars....S4, M3, Subarus, Neon, CRX racecar, others I'd rather forget....

I will add that I try to "NASCAR brake" as it's safer in case of a failure. So I am leaving a bit of time out there, but it's far easier on the brakes. I go extrordinarily long on a set of brake pads and rotors. Replacements are the $12 variety from Autozone.

jack
Is this where you tell us it's a civic or a miata? Maybe an integra? Or a Neon?

2400lb cars that can't break 110mph aren't even in the same league when it comes to braking woes.

-Mike
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Old 07-15-2009, 02:48 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hcsi99 View Post
Are you running cheap pads too?
I am running Hawk HP+ pads, front and rear.
Other folks?
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Old 07-15-2009, 03:01 PM   #21
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Quote:
Those NAPA rotors ARE the premium cheap rotors
Weren't you talking about the American made versus Chinese made Napa rotors? I was thinking, instead of $85, I might spend $130 or so next time till I find that sweet spot between price and performance. The brakes never let me down. They just weren't as comfortable as normal.

Quote:
How do you cool down your rotors at the end of a run?
Typically stick it in 6th and coast around the track following my lines. I think I've gone through 4 sets of pads this season so far. I do tend to change them early so, I don't get caught short in track.

I'm going to drive around on them on the street some more. If the pulsing goes away, I know it's bad deposits and won't worry about it. If it doesn't go away, it'll be a rotor problem. I really suspect it's pad deposits though. I've had Carbotech pads do that before. We were running longer than normal sessions and were getting sessions every 30 minutes so, the car didn't have as much time between sessions to cool.
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Old 07-15-2009, 04:09 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hcsi99 View Post
Are you running cheap pads too?
Never.

Pagid Yellows
Hawk HT-10, Blues, DTC-70s
PFC01's and 97s
DS3000
XP10 and 8
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Old 07-15-2009, 04:32 PM   #23
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Quote:
I am running Hawk HP+
These are fine if you're a noob but, once you hit intermediate levels, they're unsufficient, even with Brembos. All I use is Carbotech XP8/XP10s because they work for me and I'm reluctant to experiment at $180 a pop. I'm sure there are other good pads I've simply not used.
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Old 07-15-2009, 04:48 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterKwan View Post
These are fine if you're a noob but, once you hit intermediate levels, they're unsufficient, even with Brembos. All I use is Carbotech XP8/XP10s because they work for me and I'm reluctant to experiment at $180 a pop. I'm sure there are other good pads I've simply not used.
Ok - will need to explore upgrading pads and calipers sooner than later as my co-driver is advancing more quickly than I am through the HPDE levels. I was considering installing WRX 4-pots to replace the stock 2002 ones. Guess maybe I want to "skip" that and move up to more more powerful calipers???
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Old 07-15-2009, 05:26 PM   #25
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Well, the 4 pots aren't much of an upgrade. More of a lateral move. I was real happy tracking the 05+ LGT brakes. They're huge and they bolt right on.
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