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Old 04-30-2002, 05:52 PM   #1
cvcsmkr
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Member#: 10465
Join Date: Sep 2001
Vehicle:
91 Syclone
Only 1 color

Default Camber and toe? Please explain!

I did a search and couldn't find anythin helpful.
I have a 99 RS.
I will be lowering car about 1.7".
I understand front camber is adjustable and rear isn't.
How IS camber adjusted?
What IS camber?
I understand that you want 0 toe cause your tires will wear very fast.
What IS toe?
How IS toe adjusted?

what are your recommendation's or my setup?

I do no auto-x, but i do drive my car pretty hard. I would like the very least amount of tire as possible.
thanks.....cvcsmkr
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Old 04-30-2002, 06:06 PM   #2
Xio
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Camber is the angle your tires sit at relative to vertical when viewed from directly AHEAD or BEHIND the car. Positive camber leans the tops of the tires outward like this:
\ /
Negative camber leans the tops inward like this:
/ \

Negative camber increases front grip in corners. You want a little negative camber in the front -.3 to -1.5 degrees depending on how aggressive you are. Positive camber is not used on passenger cars as a general rule, due to it's detrimental effects on handling and stability.
Camber is adjusted by the upper bolt on the lower end of the shock, which is eccentric in order to be adjustable.

Toe is very similar, except that it is the angle relative to a horizontal line going front to back through the car when viewed from directly ABOVE. Toe in makes the tires point inwards (ala pigeon-toed) while toe out is the opposite (like duck feet).
Toe can have different effects depending on drivetrain type (FWD, RWD, AWD). I personally run just a touch (0.05 degrees) toe out in the rear to help the car rotate and a bit more (0.10 degrees) toe out in front to help initial turn-in.
Toe is adjusted using the tie rods.
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Old 04-30-2002, 07:52 PM   #3
Austin
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Just to add to what Xio said - Toe is what shreds tires, not camber. You can run -1.5 degrees camber front and rear and have the exact same tire wear as you'll get with 0 camber. Anything over 1/8" total toe will result in accelerated tire wear. Toe out wears the inside shoulder/tread block, and toe in wears the outside block.
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Old 05-01-2002, 09:52 AM   #4
cvcsmkr
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i'm sorry.
i still don't follow the camber thing.
you said that the positive camber would lean the tops of the tires outward......\ /
and that negative camber would lean the tops in ward..../ \
this is in relation to a vertical line to the angle the wheel sits.

ohh wait... it think i just got it.
okay i didn't understand our little pic.

thats a pic of BOTH wheels.
so those stupid dropped hondas that skid there frame on the ground have extremely negative camber. cause the top of the wheel is tilted inward towrds the car.



thanks a lot XIO and austin
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Old 05-01-2002, 10:24 AM   #5
Luke@tirerack
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Toe refers to the difference in distance between the front and the rear of the tires. If the distance between
the tires is less in the front than it is in the rear, it is referred to as toe-in. It would be what could be
commonly called "pigeon toed". If the distance is greater between the front than it is in the rear, that would be
toe-out.

Camber describes the amount the tire is tilted away from vertical. A tire has negative camber when the top of
the tire leans inward toward the center of the vehicle. Positive camber is when the top of the tire is leaned
outward from the center of the vehicle. The camber angle should be adjusted so that the tire is vertical under
cornering load. Properly set camber will allow the tire to work at its best, but not have the tire putting too
much of its force on the inner edge while moving in a straight line. Tire wear and handling become a
compromise. Less negative camber typically will reduce the cornering ability, but give very even wear. Next
time you see a photo of an Indy Car, see if you can notice how much camber there is. That is certainly an
example of wear not being anywhere near as important as grip.

Caster is the most difficult of the three measurements to describe. If you think back to your bicycle and
remember how the tire tilted slightly when turned, that was caster causing the tilt. If you drew an imaginary line
through the upper and lower ball joints and compared the angle of difference to a line drawn perpindicular to
the ground, the resulting difference is the caster angle. Caster settings allow the manufacturer to balance low
speed steering effort and high speed stability. Increasing the amount of positive caster will increase low speed
steering effort, but improve high speed stability. Caster also tends to cause an increase in the amount of
negative camber as the steering angle is increased.


Luke
877-522-8473 ext. 362
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Old 05-01-2002, 10:35 AM   #6
nhluhr
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there are a large number of technical FAQs on the parts of a suspension. Read these over at your leisure and then you'll have all the fundamental knowledge you need.

http://www.whiteline.com.au/faqintro.htm
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Old 05-01-2002, 07:54 PM   #7
Austin
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A great example of mucho positive caster is the front wheels on a shopping cart. They will always return to a straight position when the cart is pushed because they have much positive caster.
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Old 05-02-2002, 11:24 PM   #8
cvcsmkr
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okay so toe is the difference in distance between the the two front tires OR the difference in distance between the two rear tires. correct?

i dont follow luke in comparing the toe from the front to the rear.

isn't it separate, as in there is toe for the front and toe in the rear?

take a look at this. its a above pic of all four wheels. and there is a horizontal line for relation. the amount of toe i just made up, just the fact that there is toe.

0 toe Front''''2 toe Front''2 toe front
0 toe Rear'''''0 toe Rear''''2 toe rear
''''''|~|'''''''''''''''''''|~|'''''''''''''|~|
'''''O~O'''''''''''''''''\~ /''''''''''''\~ /
''''''|~|'''''''''''''''''''|~|'''''''''''''|~|
''''''|~|'''''''''''''''''''|~|'''''''''''''|~|
''''O~O''''''''''''''''''O~O'''''''''''\~ /
''''''|~|'''''''''''''''''''|~|'''''''''''''|~|

is this correct?

Last edited by cvcsmkr; 05-02-2002 at 11:46 PM.
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