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Old 07-23-2009, 09:29 PM   #1
WFOSTI06
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Default E-85 -----Pro's Con's

I know this is a stupid question ,but help me out here; E-85 vs. RACE GAS ?
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Old 07-23-2009, 10:02 PM   #2
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E85 (ethanol) has less chemical energy than C16 per unit of measure so you must dump more of it requiring more substantial fuel system upgrades. It can also be harder to find compared to C16. There also seems to be issues with the blend changing in some areas from E70 to E85 depending on the time of year which requires retuning.

That being said, a major advantage is cost. It is going for about $1.85 to $2.50 a gallon whereas C16 is $8+ a gallon. It also significantly lowers the heat of reaction (burns cooler) and reduces your exhaust gas temps. This reduces detonation and makes meth injection unneeded.
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Old 07-23-2009, 10:04 PM   #3
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Mainly price. It has an extra little kick on the cooling of the charge from the ethanol, but its not really enough to make a big difference.

Pro's - CHEAP Race gas - Like 3-4x cheaper than C16

Con's - Requires more fuel per volume than any race gas even Q16
- Only around 104-106 octane vs 110+


Thats about it.

-Jerod
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Old 07-23-2009, 11:14 PM   #4
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I actually run E95 and it does well and its only a few cents more per gallon than E85. I would say about 3% more horsepower and about 4% more torque than E85. E85 also makes more power and lots more toque than 100 unleaded. When I got my car tuned, we did pump gas, 100 unleaded, E85 and E95. E95 makes the most power. E85 or E95 makes a lot more toque (not sure why).
The only issue I have is its hard to start when its the engine is cold.
E85 does require more gas so you need bigger fuel injectors and a bigger fuel pump. What car you doing this on?
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Old 07-23-2009, 11:46 PM   #5
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Well - You are running nearly straight alcohol/ethanol... The cooling effect vs a straight "gasoline" with alki/eth is SUBSTANTIAL.

I'm very jealous you have E95!

-jerod
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Old 07-24-2009, 12:07 AM   #6
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The car is an 06 sti,with a somewhat tweeked stage 2 tune at the moment,custom cold air intake with a ram air set up & a heat shield type air box and a turbo back system .I am thinking about a 18 g upgrade , injectors,and running a multi-map tune and possibly a water-meth system.I am looking for somewhere in the 350 whp range ........safely.......Auto-x only with this tune ........Thanks for everyones imput .
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Old 07-24-2009, 12:26 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WFOSTI06 View Post
The car is an 06 sti,with a somewhat tweeked stage 2 tune at the moment,custom cold air intake with a ram air set up & a heat shield type air box and a turbo back system .I am thinking about a 18 g upgrade , injectors,and running a multi-map tune and possibly a water-meth system.I am looking for somewhere in the 350 whp range ........safely.......Auto-x only with this tune ........Thanks for everyones imput .
Well I am 339 awhp and 370 awtq on the stock turbo. I have up-pipe, down pipe, headers, spt exhaust, turbo inlet, tgv deletes, short ram air intake, 860 injectors and 280 fuel pump with e95 and it should be reliable. So you should be able to do it. Also with e85 you dont need meth injection but you can still do water. My water injection is sitting in a box behind and should get installed next week.
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Old 07-24-2009, 12:28 AM   #8
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water or meth or mixed is fine with E. Its not really needed unless you are running rediculous amounts of boost on a tmic and big turbo - honestly.

With E95 especially.

-jerod
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Old 07-24-2009, 12:28 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSarv View Post
Well - You are running nearly straight alcohol/ethanol... The cooling effect vs a straight "gasoline" with alki/eth is SUBSTANTIAL.

I'm very jealous you have E95!

-jerod
Its basically pure ethanol, but they call it E95 and you should be able to get it anywhere you get E95. The way I got it was ask our E85 station (SeQuential) and they called their distributer and now they sell it (pre order only though).
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Old 07-24-2009, 12:32 AM   #10
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So what do you pay for it? Can you get a 95% blend all year? How do you get it? 55 gallon drums?

I'm calling my local place tom!!!
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Old 07-24-2009, 12:51 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WFOSTI06 View Post
The car is an 06 sti,with a somewhat tweeked stage 2 tune at the moment,custom cold air intake with a ram air set up & a heat shield type air box and a turbo back system .I am thinking about a 18 g upgrade , injectors,and running a multi-map tune and possibly a water-meth system.I am looking for somewhere in the 350 whp range ........safely.......Auto-x only with this tune ........Thanks for everyones imput .
I am doing the Evo III 16 g, DW 1000 cc injectors, up-pipe with 44 mm EWG, fuel pump, thermal wrap, and a large TMIC on my WRX next month. I anticipate just under 350 on a Mustang Dyno with a conservative, safe, reliable tune. I will be getting an e-85 tune as well as pump. I will be using this setup for auto-x, which is the only reason for the upgrades in the first place since I am slowly morphing the car into my track car. With a good tune and some proper gear you should be hitting well over your target numbers. 30 % more fuel to produce 40-50 more foot lbs of tq isn't bad, especially when the fuel is cheaper than pump gas. I estimate I will be getting around 10 mpg on e-85, much cheaper than $14 a gallon for racing fuel.

Last edited by UFOpilot; 07-25-2009 at 01:22 AM.
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Old 07-24-2009, 12:54 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSarv View Post
So what do you pay for it? Can you get a 95% blend all year? How do you get it? 55 gallon drums?

I'm calling my local place tom!!!
I paid around the same price as E85 give or take a few cents (no more than 10 cents more but it might have been actually cheaper). We can get it anyways we want, we just pre order it. If you don't have a lead, I can ask our station if they can work anything out for you (their distributer might be national).... where you at?
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Old 07-25-2009, 08:43 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UFOpilot View Post
I estimate I will be getting around 10 mpg on e-85, much cheaper than $14 a gallon for racing fuel.


Try 4mpg.

I think its also important to note, E85 quality can vary by where you live. In the Carolinas, we seem to bounce between E70 and E85 independent of seasons for some reason, which can make it a real bitch to tune. If you dont have that problem, thats good.

I think the most important question that hasnt been asked yet is who is tuning the car?
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Old 07-25-2009, 07:09 PM   #14
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I am in N.C. ,and Boxer 4 will be doing the tuning , my main concern is E-85/E95 quality , vs. race gas .....a motor is worth much more than saving $$$ on fuel if the E GRADES are questionable . Has anyone had problems with this ?
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Old 07-25-2009, 07:35 PM   #15
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If youre in NC, youll want to skip E85. Trust me on this.
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Old 07-26-2009, 12:30 AM   #16
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The bump in torque is huge. It also seems to spool the turbo a bit quicker. It is cheaper (by far) than C16, and cheaper than even cat piss 91 octane. The mileage does take a hit, but overall (given the cheaper price per gallon) makes it quite a value. It can be a pain to find if you travel a lot (it will significantly reduce your range per tank). You will need larger injectors and a pump.
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Old 07-26-2009, 02:01 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cucamelsmd15 View Post


Try 4mpg.
That doesn't sound quite as good as what I had estimated.

We seem to get consistent grade here from what I hear. My tuner has been slowly turning my head in that direction. It seems like a viable alternative to race fuels. I guess I will see how it goes next month. I will most likely post up a dyno plot at some point and my thoughts on the e-85 vs. pump vs. high test fuel (probably Q16).
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Old 07-26-2009, 02:14 PM   #18
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Biggest con ---- E-85 is not readily available everywhere so road trips and such is sketchy.
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Old 07-26-2009, 02:20 PM   #19
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Biggest con ---- E-85 is not readily available everywhere so road trips and such is sketchy.
That too. I think there are a total of 10 pumps in NC? There used to be 3 stations in Durham that sold it (which is where I got mine), and now theres one. And I hear after the first of the year, that one wont be there anymore.
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Old 07-26-2009, 02:25 PM   #20
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the gas mileage isnt as bad as some people are saying. As long as you arent driving hard everywhere you go, you will only see about a 15-20% decrease in range. On my 16g'd rex i get about 20-22 mpg, my roommates evo gets about 18 mpg and my buddies sti gets about 24mpg (by voodoo witch doctors). I wiiiiiilll say that if you go to the track bring a couple of gas cans though. When you drive hard i have seen as low as 4-6 mpg lol.
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Old 07-26-2009, 02:50 PM   #21
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There are plenty of good threads about this going...Here is one that I've posted too...

http://indianaimpreza.com/showthread.php?t=5242

There are a lot of myths about ethanol, and most of them are absolutely false. They are half-truths...

With that said, blending and denaturants do vary from region to region and distributor to distributor. And depending on region, availability varies. If you don't have ethanol readily available, don't run it.

IF you don't do anything like fuel preheating, you will lose mileage. Roughly 20% on our Subaru's. With all of my mods on my WRX, I've lost ~3 mpg from stock.

^^Those are the con's. The rest is upside.

Until you need to fuel 400+whp, the fuel system is easy to adapt. Modded injectors and a walbro will support that.
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Old 07-26-2009, 06:42 PM   #22
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I just want to say thanks for the info,I think I'll be running premium on the street (this car hardly ever see's street use any more ) and race gas for auto-x ,hill climbs and maybe some TT stuff ,(2 maps ) and if I add water-meth injection we'll be running 3 maps .Boy, it sounds f#@*'n crazy ,all in the quest for USEABLE HORSEPOWER ....Like I said ......THANX AGAIN
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Old 07-27-2009, 12:09 AM   #23
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I don't know how anybody is getting 20+ mpg in an STI running E85. I get 16-17 mpg on the highway driving like a nun (and watching my RomRaider mileage readout constantly).
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Old 07-27-2009, 08:22 PM   #24
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^

The best I have ever gotten in my little wagon was 24 (on 92 pump) and that was driving down to L.A., I get 17 average on the 17 psi map, but I don't think I have ever driven like a nun. I don't see the point in trying to get high MPG out of a performance vehicle, it would require that I eliminate the "performance" part, that does not compute.
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Old 07-27-2009, 08:31 PM   #25
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Quote:
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I don't know how anybody is getting 20+ mpg in an STI running E85. I get 16-17 mpg on the highway driving like a nun (and watching my RomRaider mileage readout constantly).
No kidding. I get 17 on the highway in mine, and 15 in mixed driving. On road trips I just switch back to 93... ~27 MPG.
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