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Old 05-01-2002, 12:19 PM   #1
Impreza25RS
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Default Am I screwed?

My 98RS has a phase 1 block. Am I completely wasting my time and hard earned money to have my kit installed now? I plan on buying a 94 legacy 2.2T shortblock down the road but was hoping I could get my turbo on sooner than that. I have a good amount of money set aside just in case something goes wrong, but not enough to replace the block. I have a feeling I would be putting myself in a position I don't want to be in. What is everyone elses feelings? I know 98s are prone to blowing headgaskets so what else could I run into. I have read that the phase 1 98DOHC internals are inherently weak, so Im assuming thats whats gonna break first.
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Old 05-01-2002, 12:44 PM   #2
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Not necessarily weak, as your compression ration is better suited to boost than the Phase II blocks, which have a 10:1 compression compared to your 9.7:1.

Your head gaskets are probably the weaker part of the engine, as some have found. But, this does not necessarily mean you can't put on a turbo, just go easy on the boost (I would say around 4 psi at the beginning). If you decide to replace the head gaskets, you will probably do so with much stronger ones. Remember, when detonation occurs, its gonna try to break (cause failure) of the weakest part of the engine internals. With the upgraded heads gaskets, which are strong and won't blow, the next weakest thing is probably gonna be the piston iteself.

Piston or head gasket? Piston or head gasket?


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Old 05-01-2002, 12:47 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by Graham
Not necessarily weak, as your compression ration is better suited to boost than the Phase II blocks, which have a 10:1 compression compared to your 9.7:1.
Not all Phase II motors had the 10:1 compression. Just the 2000+, the 99s (which were Phase II) were still 9.7:1.

As far as turboing your 98, I say go ahead, if you're planning on swapping blocks, I'd have a little fun with the 98 block.

Like Graham said, you're gaskets are probably the weak link.
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Old 05-01-2002, 12:48 PM   #4
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I was gonna run 5psi to start. I have the J&S, EGT, Fuel and Oil Pressure, Boost, and J&S Dual monitor for gauges. The SAFC adjusting fuel and the parallel fuel rail mod from Ludespeed also I have an RRFPR. It seems like a pretty good setup but Im just concerned about ruining my car for obvious reasons. I dont beat or auto x my car so thats not really a factor. What about an ITC is this necessary as well. Oh yeah I have Greddy TT as well. Thanks for the response Graham...keep them coming!
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Old 05-01-2002, 12:52 PM   #5
Impreza25RS
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Just out of curiousity does anyone know how much it costs to have headgaskets replaced? And which ones should I get any suggestions? Thanks again guys I really appreciate this.
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Old 05-01-2002, 12:54 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by Impreza25RS
Just out of curiousity does anyone know how much it costs to have headgaskets replaced? And which ones should I get any suggestions? Thanks again guys I really appreciate this.
Kyle
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Don't quote me on this, but I think you can use 99 head gaskets in your car. I honestly wouldn't see a set of gaskets costing more than $150 for copper ones.
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Old 05-01-2002, 01:44 PM   #7
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don't beleive the hype. There are pleanty of boosted 98 rs's doing just fine. I being one of them. I've done everything to this poor car and it still runs awesome at 90k+miles! knock on wood.
Supercharged since 72k. 6psi. ACT clutch. 13lb flywheel. MRT header. Stromung muffler. There isnt a day this thing doesnt see redline.
98's have the heartier MAS too.

So relax... stay under 8psi and you'll be fine. Just shift smoothly, and dont generally beat the snot out of it =)
g
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Old 05-01-2002, 02:13 PM   #8
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Quote:
I have a good amount of money set aside just in case something goes wrong, but not enough to replace the block.
From the sounds of things, you are having the work done on the car, ie, are not going to be doing the work yourself?

Blocks cost between $300.00 and $500.00 for a running condition. You can get one on the cheaper end of things that will sustain your car, but might have some piston slap in a pinch. If you have to have someone else install it, then, yes, I could see it getting very expensive to replace it. Breaking your shortblock is not the end of the world, its just ALOT easier on the the 'ol pocket if you can replace it yourself, or for the cost of a case of beer and some ordered pizzas for your friends who can help you.

As far as boosted phase 1 blocks, they are fine for sane levels of boost, they just have less ultimate potential(some one might disagree with this, and the fact is 98 cranks have not been failing, so the "hype" is that bigger is better journal wise and the new changes for crank support must be better, so decide for yourself). They use them in sandrails all the time, and Outback Motorsports has had a good record building them for their customers.

Greg
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Old 05-01-2002, 02:50 PM   #9
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as graham mentioned, it would be preferable to lose a gasket versus a piston. it's almost as if you are leaving in a safeguard against more expensive damage. it is a hassle to change the head gaskets though due to engine design. oh well. one option would be to wire-ring the block and use new gaskets. that would allow the gaskets to seal better and resist blowing up.

your best bet would be to either learn how to remove and replace the block or find some friends that could show you how. it will prove to be helpful in the long run, even if you don't blow up.

andy
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Old 05-01-2002, 04:26 PM   #10
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Alright, from all the electronics you listed, I would say you should have NO problem running your car at 5 psi. As long as you do it right from the beginning, you should be golden, just don't get boost happy (as this is one of the leading causes of catastrophic failure). The S-AFC will also work on your car, as its a MY 98, with one of those dumber ECU's in it (J/K).....

Anyway, 5 psi shouldn't be problem. I personally am running a J&S Knock Sensor AND an Apex ITC, at 4 psi, and I don't get ANY (thats right, none at all) pinging/detonation/knocking.

Oh yeah, thanks for the correction Jewbaru, forgot to mention the '99 blocks.


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Old 05-01-2002, 10:43 PM   #11
Impreza25RS
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Excellent guys you have renewed my faith in my 98 so Im gonna give it a whirl and see what happens. Ill be sure to let you guys know how it turns out! Yes I will be paying to have most of the work done because I really dont trust myself to do something like this. Im pretty mechanically inclined, but I dont want to screw up! I'm gonna leave this one to Rallispec
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Old 05-02-2002, 12:43 AM   #12
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Default My car

I had an MY98 RS for 20,000 turbo miles untill the end. I had no problems at 6psi. Though strange thing was once I removed the turbo and returned to stock the car begain to over heat instantly. New short block and heads later and the car is good as new. My thought is go for it.
Joshua
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Old 05-02-2002, 01:12 AM   #13
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Kyle,
You sure you have the Phase I and not the Phase 1.5 engine? Hmmm, I am still trying to find out how exactly to find out...read about it, and saw the pics from Cobb. Where exactly is this ONE or TWO Ridge(s) thingy.

I talked to Tom, and he told me ONLY the Phase I engine has the blown gasket problem; if you have the 1.5, then you are fine. He asked me if my engine is 1 big block or compose of 3 small ones; I have no idea what he was trying to ask???

I just took some pic of my car, about this ridge thing, so maybe we can exchange pics and see if we have the same phase?

-Benson (Another MY98 Owner)
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Old 05-02-2002, 09:03 AM   #14
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I think it was found out in the end that the ridges didnt mean anything. At first it looked like 1 ridge = phase II block. But after a while feedback proved that not entirely true. some 1 ridge blocks were still phase I. It looked like subaru was just using whatever phase I blocks were left in stock before switching to phase II.
I wonder if the production date, or VIN could tell the block used.
Mine is Nov97. I haven't blown a gasket yet. So I'm either lucky or have a phase II. ...?!
g
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Old 05-02-2002, 09:42 AM   #15
Impreza25RS
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hmm thats odd. I believe my manufactors date was 9/97 or somewhere around that date. I thought that was really early production date for the phase 2 block but I honestly have no clue.
Anyone? I also have 80K miles on my car is this gonna lead to problems as well?
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Old 05-02-2002, 10:11 AM   #16
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Ahh, your having RalliSpec do it? Well then, there's NOTHING to worry about, they only do the BEST work.

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Old 05-02-2002, 03:55 PM   #17
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Well, Troy of Cobb mentioned it's rare though; so the 1 vs 2 ridge(s) thing is usually correct.
Now I am trying to find where the hell is the bellhousing (tranny?), since the Phase II has 7 bolts...let's do it together and find out where it is!

I will shoot a pic or two, if I found it!

Hmmm, I gotta check my manuf.date too

-Benson (Another MY98 Owner)
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Old 05-02-2002, 07:37 PM   #18
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RalliSpec has experience working on the MY98 -- they turbocharged my MY98 in June of 1999. Other than headgasket failure (both sides), I haven't had any serious issues.

Steve
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PS. I think Cobb is correct about the ridges, although I'm not positive. My MY98 has a build date of 4/98, very late.
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Old 05-05-2002, 01:44 AM   #19
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Kyle,
Talked to Cobb and was told a 90% chance of time, if you have 1 ridge then it has a phase 2 block. The tranny bolts pattern for phase 2 engine will follow if you have the new design.
So yours have 1 or 2 ridge(s)?

Mine has 1 and it's made on 5/98

-Benson (Another MY98 Owner)
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Old 05-05-2002, 01:58 AM   #20
Impreza25RS
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hmmm...so where is this ridge that I should be looking for. I think Im lost...
Kyle
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Old 05-05-2002, 04:11 AM   #21
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I will take a pic as well later on, and post it here; here is the ridge location based on the pic from Cobb: (Phase I)

-2 ridges shown here (red circle)
-Look under the radiator connecting pipe (yellow arrow).

If you look down from the left of alternator, you can find the EJ25 stamp. Then go left and find the JAPAN stamp. Then right below it (meaning toward the front of car) you can see the ridge; either 1 or 2.

If you can't find it still, I can take pics

-Benson (Another MY98 Owner)
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File Type: jpg dohc-engine01.jpg (48.7 KB, 174 views)
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Old 05-05-2002, 04:48 PM   #22
Impreza25RS
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argghhhh I am stuck with the phase 1 block. So now what?
Kyle
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Old 05-05-2002, 06:20 PM   #23
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What do you mean, now what? Boost it!

Seriously, don't get hung up on it being a Phase 1. The headgaskets are going to be a problem, so if you've got the time during the turbo install, fix it then. O-ring should solve that problem. Then just have fun.

Steve
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Old 05-05-2002, 07:09 PM   #24
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Kyle,
Don't worry, Cobb told me that even with Phase 1, he has heard people turbo it without a problem for over 30k! It's how you drive and treat your car that counts; also a bit of luck. Phase 2 isn't invincible either, so don't feel bad

-Benson (Another MY98 Owner)
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