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Old 07-27-2009, 08:59 PM   #1
scramjett
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Default TD05 20G People, Speak up please!!

Ok, I bought a Blouch TD05 20G (7cm ported) on a whim because I happen to live close a major vendor and got a cash discount.......... Need to get an e-mail tune and contacted Clark Turner and he basically chastised me for buy the "worst possible turbo for a 2.5L" or something to that affect.........

Can people running one of these give me their words of praise or damnation on the TD05 20G...!?!?!?
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Old 07-27-2009, 09:04 PM   #2
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TD05 Is a 7cm hot side turbo which Is a little small for the 2.5 engine, You will be alright If you put It on the car but I will guaranty that you will be wanting more in 6 months haha. The car should spool near stock but will feel like Its running out of breathe up top as the engine Is being restricted too much being its a 7cm hot side, you can go EWG and It should help out In this case but IMO I would look for a different turbo that has a 8cm housing.

When you buy all the supporting mods like Injectors and FP and all that keep In mind that you might be going with a larger turbo In the future.
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Old 07-27-2009, 09:59 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 07wrx4life View Post
TD05 Is a 7cm hot side turbo which Is a little small for the 2.5 engine, You will be alright If you put It on the car but I will guaranty that you will be wanting more in 6 months haha. The car should spool near stock but will feel like Its running out of breathe up top as the engine Is being restricted too much being its a 7cm hot side, you can go EWG and It should help out In this case but IMO I would look for a different turbo that has a 8cm housing.

When you buy all the supporting mods like Injectors and FP and all that keep In mind that you might be going with a larger turbo In the future.
I have already installed:

DW 850's
Walbro
Invidia DP
Borla Catback
GrimmSpeed 3 port BCS
TXS FMIC
TXS Intake
TXS BPV
TXS Up-Pipe
1 step colder plugs
GMS Turbo Inlet
Cobb AP
Shifter + bushings
18x8.5 Rotas w/Eagle F1's

Ha ha! All the supporting mods to run a Blouch Dom on race gas!

I'm just looking for FAST spool and 325'ish WHP holding about 225wtq @ 7K. Just a sleeper street car and Mustang killer.... I got the Blouch TD05 20G (ported) for about $1k cash (new)... Seemed like a good deal and was an impulse buy. Trying to avoid an EWG as I hate the attention it gives you!! Keeping stock internals for as long as possible, hence I don't want some 375whp car.

Still looking to hear from guys with the TD05 20G (7cm) on their 2.5s!!!!

Last edited by scramjett; 07-27-2009 at 10:05 PM.
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Old 07-27-2009, 11:02 PM   #4
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Blouch does also have a TD05 20g 8cm option, not sure if you realized that. I just bought one today from a vendor for $1100 shipped. The 8cm option is $100 from Blouch so we got basically the same deal except that I got free shipping included. Based upon my research it should be great, especially for a daily driver. What was the issue that your tuner had with the turbo? The 7cm hot side or the TD05? I guess it depends what you want... TD06 20g 8cm is often recommended but it is a tradeoff of spool for high rpm power vs. the TD05 20g 8cm. There is a good thread in the Newbie FAQ forum where Defiant gives an very good explanation of what to expect with these turbos.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1812319

Last edited by 2001stook; 07-27-2009 at 11:14 PM.
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Old 07-28-2009, 06:23 AM   #5
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Blouch does also have a TD05 20g 8cm option, not sure if you realized that. I just bought one today from a vendor for $1100 shipped. The 8cm option is $100 from Blouch so we got basically the same deal except that I got free shipping included. Based upon my research it should be great, especially for a daily driver. What was the issue that your tuner had with the turbo? The 7cm hot side or the TD05? I guess it depends what you want... TD06 20g 8cm is often recommended but it is a tradeoff of spool for high rpm power vs. the TD05 20g 8cm. There is a good thread in the Newbie FAQ forum where Defiant gives an very good explanation of what to expect with these turbos.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1812319
He's not actually my tuner. I *wanted* to order a map from Clark Turner and PM'd him about the td05-20g and basically he ripped into me and said that should sell the turbo as its the worst possible turbo (td05 20g) for the 2.5l

My hot side is ported by Blouch..... so though it may have been 7cm went shipped from the factory, it is now probably 8cm (I think!)

You got a great deal on yours! Makes mine sound "ho hum!" Good luck on your setup!!

Still looking for people wth resuls on this turbo!! Is anyone running this?? The feedback has been less than stellar.

Last edited by scramjett; 07-28-2009 at 06:37 AM.
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Old 07-28-2009, 08:26 AM   #6
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I have a TD05 8CM^2 20G and I would say the only better bolt on turbo is the new HTA from FP. Check out the official road dyno listing in proven power bragging. Look at the 20G's (Braden's plot is actually a 20G, not a DOM3, he made less power on the DOM3).

But Clark is correct, the 7CM^2 20G turbos really suck. Its the 8CM^2 that makes it spool close to stock and hold power really well till redline.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1728653

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...06&postcount=2 (turboge is Braden)

Last edited by gabedude; 07-28-2009 at 08:35 AM.
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Old 07-28-2009, 10:40 AM   #7
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the 20g is an awesome turbo for a DD. however unless you go EWG you will without a doubt have boost creep issues because you went 7cm.

ive got a blouch td0520g 8cm on my 05 sti and its tons of fun. at 20psi i made 340whp and 350tq. i see full boost at like 3200rpm i think, ill check when i go to lunch today...it may be sooner than that.
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Old 07-28-2009, 11:05 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timeXlost View Post
the 20g is an awesome turbo for a DD. however unless you go EWG you will without a doubt have boost creep issues because you went 7cm.

ive got a blouch td0520g 8cm on my 05 sti and its tons of fun. at 20psi i made 340whp and 350tq. i see full boost at like 3200rpm i think, ill check when i go to lunch today...it may be sooner than that.
Alright, alright... the 7cm was a bad choice out of ignorance! I am going to see if I can take it back to where I bought it from and step up to the 8cm 20G.... I haven't installed the turbo and hopefully the guys at Oakos will be sympathetic and have mercy on me!!
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Old 07-28-2009, 12:15 PM   #9
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My hot side is ported by Blouch..... so though it may have been 7cm went shipped from the factory, it is now probably 8cm (I think!)
Not even close, the porting just increases the size of the inlet, not the part that actually restricts flow. Did they port the hotside or the wastegate? If they ported the wastegate that will have even less of an effect.

People have also had compressor surge problems on the TD05-20g 7cm with the 2.5L.
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Old 07-28-2009, 12:32 PM   #10
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Pm bluegrasswrx Paul's running a TD05H-20G-7cm^2 on a 2006 WRX however he is running a EWG. I tuned the car quite some time ago pretty conservative fueling & timing. I was pretty happy with the performance of the turbo on a 2.5L given the conservative fueling. We left the fueling conservative at the time because he was having some issues with the hoses staying on his APS FMIC during multiple WOT runs. He's since switched injectors(previously running modded stockers with some large variences in the flow %) & fixed all his hosing issues but I've only exchanged logs & maps with him since the initial tune.

TD05H-20G-7cm^2
modded stock injectors
APS 525 FMIC
Perrin SRI
Grimmspeed EWG uppipe with Tial 38mm WG
TurboXS RFL TBE
Hallman PRO MBC
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Old 07-28-2009, 01:46 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by testes1010 View Post
Pm bluegrasswrx Paul's running a TD05H-20G-7cm^2 on a 2006 WRX however he is running a EWG. I tuned the car quite some time ago pretty conservative fueling & timing. I was pretty happy with the performance of the turbo on a 2.5L given the conservative fueling. We left the fueling conservative at the time because he was having some issues with the hoses staying on his APS FMIC during multiple WOT runs. He's since switched injectors(previously running modded stockers with some large variences in the flow %) & fixed all his hosing issues but I've only exchanged logs & maps with him since the initial tune.

TD05H-20G-7cm^2
modded stock injectors
APS 525 FMIC
Perrin SRI
Grimmspeed EWG uppipe with Tial 38mm WG
TurboXS RFL TBE
Hallman PRO MBC
Cool! Its holding boost really good to redline - I like! You know I tried contacting Blouch to see if the porting they did on the hot side is sufficient enough to not worry about boost spike/creep... Never heard back. But I'm used to that with aftermarket vendors! If it was 7cm prior to porting, then I wonder what the parting makes it equivalent to, you know what I mean?

I can't do the EWG..... WAY too loud. My exhaust is loud enough that I don't need the additional sounds of an F-16 spooling up on the tarmac everytime I drive the thing!!
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Old 07-28-2009, 01:59 PM   #12
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I can't do the EWG..... WAY too loud. My exhaust is loud enough that I don't need the additional sounds of an F-16 spooling up on the tarmac everytime I drive the thing!!
EWG is silent until it opens, stay below 15-20 psi and you'd never know it was there. You could always plumb it back into the downpipe too if you wanted.
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Old 07-28-2009, 02:21 PM   #13
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The 7cm has to do with the hotside of the turbo. You can't port yours to a 8cm. You have a ported 7cm.
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Old 07-28-2009, 02:24 PM   #14
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Cool! Its holding boost really good to redline - I like!
It is?
That looks like it's falling off almost as badly as stock. 21 psi peak to 17.5 psi at 6500 RPM. That's the TD05 that's tapering boost, then you have the added restriction of the 7cm hotside raising EGTs and dropping power. That would be an autocross monster, but would die on the top end.
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Old 07-28-2009, 02:48 PM   #15
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It is?
That looks like it's falling off almost as badly as stock. 21 psi peak to 17.5 psi at 6500 RPM. That's the TD05 that's tapering boost, then you have the added restriction of the 7cm hotside raising EGTs and dropping power. That would be an autocross monster, but would die on the top end.
Hey, I'm coming from a td04 that drops down to what, 9psi at redline!? To me at least, that's really good to my eyes!!

I gotta take back my Perrin inlet today to Oakos that they (Perrin) market as fitting the 08 cars but they never got around to test fitting to see that it doesn't fit because Subaru moved an air combo valve to where the BPV port is on the inlet and its impossible to make it fit.... even with the IM off, I know from 1st hand experience. I'm going to ask the kindly gentlemen that run the shop of they'll let me exchange the 7cm for an 8cm. Or just order a new hotside from Blouch and fix'er myself. The Blouch porting does look good though on the 7cm - they do nice work!!
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Old 07-28-2009, 03:40 PM   #16
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It is?
That's the TD05 that's tapering boost, then you have the added restriction of the 7cm hotside raising EGTs and dropping power. That would be an autocross monster, but would die on the top end.
As the OP stated definitely not a drop off like stock but there's still a significant drop off expected with a TD05 on a 2.5L. I have NO doubt a completely tuned TD05H-20G on 2.5L would perform similar to a TD06-20G on a 2.5L just the curve would be moved to the right signicantly.

Attached as I stated a very conservative tuned TD05H-20G-7cm^2 vs. a custom tuned STG2 2006 WRX, granted different car, different days, etc, etc but you get a idea of what the curve looks like over a stock turbo curve.

Had both logs started at the same rpm I believe the torque curve of the 20G would have lied on top of that of the stocker. From ~4250rpm there's +50wtq more and 50-75whp more and upto 75wtq more & +75whp at redline alone.
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Old 07-28-2009, 03:45 PM   #17
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And the 8cm td05 you expect would have the same spool chacteristics but with less taper at high rpms? Any charts that you have that would demonstrate the difference?

Last edited by 2001stook; 07-28-2009 at 04:41 PM.
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Old 07-28-2009, 04:03 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 07wrx4life View Post
TD05 Is a 7cm hot side turbo which Is a little small for the 2.5 engine, You will be alright If you put It on the car but I will guaranty that you will be wanting more in 6 months haha. The car should spool near stock but will feel like Its running out of breathe up top as the engine Is being restricted too much being its a 7cm hot side, you can go EWG and It should help out In this case but IMO I would look for a different turbo that has a 8cm housing.

When you buy all the supporting mods like Injectors and FP and all that keep In mind that you might be going with a larger turbo In the future.
My TD05 20G, 8cm2, on the internal wastegate has never creeped. It overboosted once on the base map and since tuning has never once had an issue. You should be able to just order the 8cm housing for it...but by no meands does TD05 = 7cm2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gabedude View Post
I have a TD05 8CM^2 20G and I would say the only better bolt on turbo is the new HTA from FP. Check out the official road dyno listing in proven power bragging. Look at the 20G's (Braden's plot is actually a 20G, not a DOM3, he made less power on the DOM3).

But Clark is correct, the 7CM^2 20G turbos really suck. Its the 8CM^2 that makes it spool close to stock and hold power really well till redline.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1728653

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...06&postcount=2 (turboge is Braden)
Mine's not in the official rankings in the road dyno thread, but it's there 362/418 on a Spearco/100 octane. Who knows with a FMIC/pump gas.

I do disagree the HTA68 being the best bolt-on turbo...it's just not impressive, IMO. I think if you want a turbo that will spool like all hell, make good power, and still like motorwork/higher octane, a TD05 20G is a great choice, as would be a TD06 20G. That said, I'm probably going bigger stock location soon...just can't help myself.
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Old 07-28-2009, 04:12 PM   #19
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And the 8cm td05 you expect would have the same spool chacteristics but with less taper at high rpms?
Yes, very similar spool characteristics with abit better topend. You have to remember the setup I've posted uses a APS DR525 FMIC so thats adding a bit to the spoolup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2001stook View Post
Any charts that you have that would demonstrate the difference?
Unfortunately the only 8cm^2 tune I've done is a Frank50-8cm^2 on a STi. My 2.0L absolutely loved the TD05H-20G-7cm^2, but for my LGT I'd go with a TD05H-20G-8cm^2 with a recirc'd EWG if I were going to a 20G on it.

IMHO, the TD06H-20G(even for a 2.5L engine) was always a lopsided turbo(turbines too big), most do not understand how large that turbine actually is. It blows my mind that they put the TD06 on a 18G and even some have put a TD06 on a 16G . The TD06 is what is ran on the infamous Greddy T67(TD06-25G). The 25G compressor is rated more flow than a GT30R and they run the exact same TD06 turbine wheel on it.
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Old 07-28-2009, 05:16 PM   #20
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Excellent. I'll be running my new TD05 20g 8cm with a spearco top mount, grimmspeed ported manifold, grimmspeed crosspipe and uppipe. This is on an 04 STi. Should be sweet hopefully. Need to decide on whether to keep the stock airbox.
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Old 07-28-2009, 05:41 PM   #21
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stock airbox for a 20g? NO, get a SRI and an inlet. And i would go with a FMIC. And i hope you already have a bellmouth DP.
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Old 07-28-2009, 06:48 PM   #22
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Hey this is actually a pretty cool discussion!

Alright here's what I'm doing...... Oakos, understandably didn't swap the 7cm for the 8cm as after all, who knows in gods name what I could have done to the turbo since taking possesion of it. But, thankfully I know how to swap out the 7cm for an 8cm and I've located places to buy them at in Subaru fitment. But they did take back the Perrin inlet and I hope Perrin fxes the fitment issues on the +08s since it was a nice sturdy inlet - way better than the GMS.

So I'll do the 7cm and see what happens. If it overboosts like mad like the tuners I talked to then I'll swap out the hotside and retune. Either way I'm, now I am just curious as hell to see what I get on the 7cm. Curiosity killed the cat and I'm willing enough to play he cat!

When I get my AVO inlet I'll get the 7cm 20G tuned, dynoed, and post results but until then I'm stuck wth my VF48.

Hopefully I can get the inlet and get tuned in no more than 2 weeks after I mess around with the VF48 e-mail map I got from PDX.
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Old 07-28-2009, 06:57 PM   #23
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Make sure you listen for compressor surge, you might have to drop your WGDC a bit on spool up and purposefully delay boost onset to prevent it. There have been at least a couple cases of this with the TD05-20g 7cm on the 2.5L.
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Old 07-28-2009, 07:33 PM   #24
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listen i i don't have a 20g but i have an 7cm fp18g unported on my 06 and ive had no problems with the 7cm hotside. i make great power it pulls hard to the redline and i have no boostcreep what so ever. as long as you have a good tune and good parts you'll be fine. i highly recommend getting the aem tru boost i was able to hold more boost up top and eliminate any boost creep that would have been there with the stock solenoid or with a gm or prodrive solenoid. And lets just say its so smooth it feels like its not even turboed just feels like a v8 under the hood lol.
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Old 07-28-2009, 08:21 PM   #25
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this turbo was great on my 2.5, definately a little undersized for the motor but great for daily driving. My Dominator 2.0 never surges, and is definately more appropriately fit for the 2.5, but it lacks the midrange and kills my transmission too often for me to want to keep it any more lol:
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