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Old 08-01-2009, 12:42 PM   #1
bigmike25rs
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Default Who's tuned AEM EMS w/ Kelford cams? (05 STi)

Having all sorts of problems with the EMS and the Kelford cams. Who's tuned this setup? We can't get the cam advance worked out without a ton of correction by the EMS and the car will not rev 5k RPM's. Even free revving the car, it will not pass 5k without breaking up real bad.. All of the limiters were triple checked to make sure nothing was enabled. (ie launch controll, rev limit etc..) I sent the box back to AEM and they said they fixed a few problems that they had found. When I got the box back, I still had all the same issues and my tach did not work. We found a connection on the board that had come un-soldered.. (great job AEM ) Fixed that up and got a tach signal again. Anyone expirienced any of these issues? I've read on AEM forums about a hard fuel cut/misfire at certain RPM's, but I wouldve thought AEM would've taken care of that when I sent it back..
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Old 08-01-2009, 01:14 PM   #2
wrx_driver_2002
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Tim Bailey of Surgeline Tuning has tuned his personal 04 STI with a GT35R and Kelford 276/272 cams on an AEM. The only difference is that these specific Kelford cams are are technically AVCS Cam blanks that are ground with a Non AVCS profile. THey have non variable centerlines so you plug all of the holes on the front of the cams and run WRX cam gears.

Maybe have your tuner call Adam at Revolutions Performance in Colorado, or Tim Bailey at Surgeline (Tim is out of town for the next week, but he'll be back to work on the 10th of aug). i know both of them have had some pretty good experience with the AEM EMS
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Old 08-02-2009, 01:19 PM   #3
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That's co-incidental, a friend of mine, who is also a member on here, just installed a built motor in his 04 STI, along with an AEM EMS.

His tuner discovered a part on the board was not installed correctly! His tuner also had a lot of issues with the AVCS system operating eractically!

To add to this!

Two weeks ago my brand new sleeved, cam'd, ported motor was started up for the first time in the a.m after the new motor/turbo setup install was completed.

Car is an 06 STI.

AEM box #15, which had been revised by AEM, was installed by my tuner. He is an AEM Factory Certified tuner and has installed a lot of AEM units as well as many other makes.

Mid day, the same day the motor was started, during intial tuning, my tuner encountered a series of misfires at approx. 6500 rpm, "that made the motor stumble/shake".

Shortly after that 'event' the motor developed a slight "tap" sound, the oil was drained and bearing material was discovered in the filter!

After the motor was dismantled, it appears the AEM EMS may have caused the motor to misfire at 4-5 different degree settings as the main bearings have impacts in 4-5 different locations!
This 'event' took out all bottom end/rod bearings, bent a rod and stressed all the piston wrist pins!

The logs were sent to AEM early last week to review. I/we have not heard back from AEM as of yet.
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Old 08-02-2009, 01:38 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackacres View Post
That's co-incidental, a friend of mine, who is also a member on here, just installed a built motor in his 04 STI, along with an AEM EMS.

His tuner discovered a part on the board was not installed correctly! His tuner also had a lot of issues with the AVCS system operating eractically!

To add to this!

Two weeks ago my brand new sleeved, cam'd, ported motor was started up for the first time in the a.m after the new motor/turbo setup install was completed.

Car is an 06 STI.

AEM box #15, which had been revised by AEM, was installed by my tuner. He is an AEM Factory Certified tuner and has installed a lot of AEM units as well as many other makes.

Mid day, the same day the motor was started, during intial tuning, my tuner encountered a series of misfires at approx. 6500 rpm, "that made the motor stumble/shake".

Shortly after that 'event' the motor developed a slight "tap" sound, the oil was drained and bearing material was discovered in the filter!

After the motor was dismantled, it appears the AEM EMS may have caused the motor to misfire at 4-5 different degree settings as the main bearings have impacts in 4-5 different locations!
This 'event' took out all bottom end/rod bearings, bent a rod and stressed all the piston wrist pins!

The logs were sent to AEM early last week to review. I/we have not heard back from AEM as of yet.

Thats a little scary!!!
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Old 08-02-2009, 01:51 PM   #5
bigmike25rs
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Yeah, Ive about had it with AEM.. We've contacted them numerous times and they act like sending me a bad box is an everyday thing and no big deal. I had to pay the overnight shipping and was without my daily driver for 5 days. Then they sent another bad box. The worst part is that when having my tuner deal with them on the phone, they have no clue how to help us. My car has made all kinds of crazy misfire noises and ran like crap with both these boxes at 5k RPM's.. At least I still have good oil pressure.... For now.
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Old 08-02-2009, 02:43 PM   #6
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Hey Norm

thx for the link to this thread! Like he said my box had dioades backwards and all kinds of cam timing problems my tuner spent 3 weeks trying to sought it out! He was talking to Henery from Aem for hrs trying to find a solution I even wanted to put a set screw in the camgears to stop it wandering but it doesn't seam like that would work, my cam timing goes from 7-8 allthe way to 15 at certain Rome on it's own which really scares me cause the valves can hit near 20! So I really think aem should work out all the bugs before they start sending these things robe sold!
At the very least recall all the boxes so you don't have to find out the hard way that you box wasn't upgraded! My box is 42 and wasn't fixed so who knows who has what!
This really sucks concidering I dropped 2g's on this setup after converting to CAD! Also had to pay $1600 for tuning because of all the time spent on my car, and that was a cap price he gave me! If he charged me by they're he spent on my car @ shop rate Damm inwould need a second
motgage!

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackacres View Post
That's co-incidental, a friend of mine, who is al



so a member on here, just installed a built motor in his 04 STI, along with an AEM EMS.

His tuner discovered a part on the board was not installed correctly! His tuner also had a lot of issues with the AVCS system operating eractically!

To add to this!

Two weeks ago my brand new sleeved, cam'd, ported motor was started up for the first time in the a.m after the new motor/turbo setup install was completed.

Car is an 06 STI.

AEM box #15, which had been revised by AEM, was installed by my tuner. He is an AEM Factory Certified tuner and has installed a lot of AEM units as well as many other makes.

Mid day, the same day the motor was started, during intial tuning, my tuner encountered a series of misfires at approx. 6500 rpm, "that made the motor stumble/shake".

Shortly after that 'event' the motor developed a slight "tap" sound, the oil was drained and bearing material was discovered in the filter!

After the motor was dismantled, it appears the AEM EMS may have caused the motor to misfire at 4-5 different degree settings as the main bearings have impacts in 4-5 different locations!
This 'event' took out all bottom end/rod bearings, bent a rod and stressed all the piston wrist pins!

The logs were sent to AEM early last week to review. I/we have not heard back from AEM as of yet.
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Old 08-02-2009, 08:00 PM   #7
bigmike25rs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waynoSTI View Post
Hey Norm

thx for the link to this thread! Like he said my box had dioades backwards and all kinds of cam timing problems my tuner spent 3 weeks trying to sought it out! He was talking to Henery from Aem for hrs trying to find a solution I even wanted to put a set screw in the camgears to stop it wandering but it doesn't seam like that would work, my cam timing goes from 7-8 allthe way to 15 at certain Rome on it's own which really scares me cause the valves can hit near 20! So I really think aem should work out all the bugs before they start sending these things robe sold!
At the very least recall all the boxes so you don't have to find out the hard way that you box wasn't upgraded! My box is 42 and wasn't fixed so who knows who has what!
This really sucks concidering I dropped 2g's on this setup after converting to CAD! Also had to pay $1600 for tuning because of all the time spent on my car, and that was a cap price he gave me! If he charged me by they're he spent on my car @ shop rate Damm inwould need a second
motgage!
Exactly my issue.. 3 diodes were in backwards from what we could see..Henery from AEM sent us a diagram and we had to take the box apart and check things out. My box was 52 I believe. We went as far as to turn the AVCS off, but I still had the revving issue. AEM believes the hard miss at 5k is related to the syncing of the cam and crank, but they're not even sure. Im basically driving around a time bomb for a daily driver. The box was doing all sorts of crazy things while we were tuning.. We would have the car idleing perfect with good AFR's.. Then the car would stall out and not want to start. When we'd get it started AFR's would be all over the place and it wouldn't idle.. We never changed a thing! Also, on the road it would do similar things. We would dial in certain sections of RPM for fueling and when we came back to that section AFR's were way off.. This was suppost to be a serviced box!! Im really at my wits end with this because AEM isn't helping me.
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Old 08-02-2009, 10:31 PM   #8
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Here's a few things to try that i got from my friend Jason, javs11 here! Not sure if you'd done this yet but these are must with this box!
You have to put cardboard or something under the box so it doesn't short out on the floor and you can't use a braille battery under 15lbs, also you must not plug anything in the lighter ie if the tuner has an eliminator for his computer don't plug it in because if the AEM sees a drop in voltage it messes it up! use copper plugs gapped properly not one step colder! these are things i did and had a little more success!
Try these any see if it helps bro! My tuner said when you get this thing setup right they rule! but getting there is the tricky part! GL BRO!
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Old 08-02-2009, 10:55 PM   #9
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Hmm. That's very interesting as Im breaking all the rules you just mentioned!! Im running the box right where the stock ecu was. I'm also running a Braille battery and NGK Iridium +1 colder plugs. At one point we even plugged the tuner's laptop into a power inverter..
Now that I think about it, my tuner told me that when he's expirienced things like what Im getting, it was an electrical issue. This is definatly some food for thought..
What copper plugs are you using on an STi? Ive searched around and can't get a definate part # for them.. Been looking for awhile actually. Iridiums are damn expensive and really rather run a copper plug and just change them routinely..

Last edited by bigmike25rs; 08-03-2009 at 10:27 PM.
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Old 08-02-2009, 11:02 PM   #10
waynoSTI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmike25rs View Post
Hmm. That's very interesting as Im breaking all the rules you just mentioned!! Im running the box right where the stock ecu was. It's just laying on the metal "X" on the floor. I'm also running a Braille battery and NGK Iridium +1 colder plugs. At one point we even plugged the tuner's laptop into a power inverter..
Now that I think about it, my tuner told me that when he's expirienced things like what Im getting, it was an electrical issue. This is definatly some food for thought..
What copper plugs are you using on an STi? Ive searched around and can't get a definate part # for them.. Been looking for awhile actually. Iridiums are damn expensive and really rather run a copper plug and just change them routinely..
NGK coppers but you have to gap them yourself! here's where i get mine from i buy a box when i go!try those things and see if they work! Also try calling PL motorsports my tuner talked to them and got some good advice, they have a lot of experience with the kelfords and AEM!
http://www.innovativetuning.com/cata...oducts_id=2888
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Old 08-02-2009, 11:04 PM   #11
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Hope you get this issue resolved soon man! I had my mind set on replacing my PITA Hydra 2.1 box for an AEM, but maybe I'll wait it out for a bit longer until they start releasing some solid product. My Hydra tune is dialed in pretty damn good right now so I don't see a reason for me to switch yet.
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Old 08-03-2009, 10:47 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmike25rs View Post
Hmm. That's very interesting as Im breaking all the rules you just mentioned!! Im running the box right where the stock ecu was. I'm also running a Braille battery and NGK Iridium +1 colder plugs. At one point we even plugged the tuner's laptop into a power inverter..
Now that I think about it, my tuner told me that when he's expirienced things like what Im getting, it was an electrical issue. This is definatly some food for thought..
What copper plugs are you using on an STi? Ive searched around and can't get a definate part # for them.. Been looking for awhile actually. Iridiums are damn expensive and really rather run a copper plug and just change them routinely..
You are on the right page, AEM cannot respnd to voltage drops, but dont stress about plugs, we use ngks on all our aem sti setups and never had a problem.

How steep is your fuel map between 3000 & 3500 ?
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Old 08-07-2009, 01:18 PM   #13
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Hrm.

Purchased my 1821

2008 October 30th

It's still in the box. but gladly its a REV: A MODS: B

Lets just hope i can get a car to install it on before the 12 month warranty is up!

[quote author=SB link=topic=23198.msg124986#msg124986 date=1226681062]
As stated above, if you experience these symptoms please contact our Tech Support to arrange for a Return Authorization. Our newest batch of 30-1820 and 1821 EMS boxes includes the updates from the factory.
If the sticker on the EMS indicates "Rev:A Mods:B" then the updates have already been performed.
[/quote]

http://forum.aempower.com/forum/inde...,23198.15.html

If your having problems with your box in this same manner. Contact AEM they have a fix for the issue.



Update...

For the PN 30-1821 boxes. Rev A and Mod C is available

Sending mine in for update before install/tuning.

Last edited by Razlin; 08-07-2009 at 07:02 PM.
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Old 08-07-2009, 09:11 PM   #14
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I currently have the Rev A mod C box.. It was sent in once already.. It's still not right. We're thinking it has to do with the way the cam sensor is reading the cams and how the AEM is picking up the signal.. Ive emailed Kelford to see if they've heard of any issues like this..
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Old 08-17-2009, 05:12 PM   #15
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are you kidding me???

I haven't had a single issue with my AEM yet.

After work I'm going to check the serial number and post it up.

Geez, i'm happy i found this thread.
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Old 08-17-2009, 05:33 PM   #16
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The only safe thing to do here is to uncheck the VVC 1&2 which turns off the AVCS i think I'm going to do that tomorrow if i can't lock it at 5deg! This will retard the cam timing 4deg's and will be safe until AEM figure out how to control the kelfords! This is what ED and Henry from AEM have told me to try! My car is going to the Dyno for some tuning tomorrow so I'll let you know how it drives if we can't lock it at 5deg!
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Old 08-17-2009, 06:01 PM   #17
bigmike25rs
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We figured out the revving issues!! I haven't had a chance to hook up with my tuner to see if cam advance is now controllable.. Basically, we shaved down the oil pump where the crank sensor sits to try and get the AEM a better signal. The car now revs freely to about 6600-6900 and has some breaking up there. We are going to try and shave it down a bit more and see if that helps.. We just used a flat file on the oil pump and really didnt shave much material off at all originally. Must have been just enough to get the stronger signal that the AEM must need. It's odd how the stock ECU had no trouble at all with the cam sensor. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.... There are quite a few threads about this infamous 6600rpm misfire. Im hoping it's this crank sensor issue. I'll post up again in a few days when I figure out if this allows us cam controll. Ive been running the car now for a few weeks with the AEM basemap values in the AVCS table and so far, all is well.
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Old 08-19-2009, 11:59 PM   #18
I'm Slow
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Any additional updates
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Old 08-20-2009, 02:20 PM   #19
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Not yet. I haven't gotten to meet up with my tuner.
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Old 08-25-2009, 09:46 AM   #20
BUILTSTI
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REV A

MOD B

box # 17

RUN's PERFECT.

0 Issues

05 STi

Last edited by BUILTSTI; 08-25-2009 at 10:08 AM.
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Old 08-25-2009, 09:51 AM   #21
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Super interested in finding out what version everyone has and if they are having any issues or is it running smooth?

Rev: A
Mods: A, B or C

Each unit has a label on the end.

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Old 01-30-2010, 01:53 PM   #22
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Little update on what i have learned / found out during discussions.

Some people are having a problem with the AEM unit itself. They have gone thorough a pile of revisions on the box. So get your box updated with the most current "Mod" from AEM at a minimum.

I have had a hard time with beliving that the AEM box was entirely the only problem! They work great on so many other brands, years and models of cars.

What i have come to understand from tuners/and enthusiasts with these boxes on Built blocks, headwork etc.....

there is also the problem people are having with the signal strength coming from the cam and crank sensors into the AEM. The AEM needs a nice strong signal.

From what i have gathered is, Some with Aftermarket cams have slight changes in the clearance between the cam and the sensor.

This could be due to installation of the sensors, cam manufacturer variations, sensor problems or Luck!

Junior @ The Shop has figured out a fix that has worked for him and the proof is in the MPH!!!

Juniors threads .... http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1852860

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...1&postcount=18

Quote:
Originally Posted by Junior2JZ View Post
The non DBW box didnt really have the misfire issues. Only time I had an issue with the wrx box was with adjustable after market cam gears.. Did the same thing, filed cam bracket down, problem solved.
The coles notes solution is:

File down the plastic cam sensor bracket to close the clearance by a few thousanths or so to the cam. This enables the cam sensor to function in a signal strenght that the AEM Likes.

Similar work done to the crank sensor was also done.

Anyone else try this fix? Report back!
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Old 01-30-2010, 07:19 PM   #23
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O have a older box i guess I bought it off a forum member recently. its an 1821-0024 Rev: A Mod:A so does this mean it's not up to date? upgrades from AEM are free correct? If so what will it be upgraded to. I hope I dont have an issue with this p.o.s again I swear I'll dump the car in hunts point and never look back.
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Old 01-30-2010, 10:22 PM   #24
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^ Your tuned by JR. It seems he knows AEM well. Check it out with him.

Also could call up AEM and ask if there are any revisions for your older box. I am not familiar with the Model #s and years they are for .
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Old 01-31-2010, 03:34 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razlin View Post
^ Your tuned by JR. It seems he knows AEM well. Check it out with him.

Also could call up AEM and ask if there are any revisions for your older box. I am not familiar with the Model #s and years they are for .


Yea but the easiest way to talk to Jr is to go to the shop lol. I guess I'll wait till my Turbo Mirage is done so i can get that tuned and talk to him at the same time about the AEM for the subaru thats been hiding under a cover in my garage for a year now.
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