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Old 05-02-2002, 09:10 AM   #1
TheWRX
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Question to toe out or not to toe out...

Ok, so I have an appointment at the alignment shop today, read lots of threads and web pages about alignment settings, did another search this morning... and I'm still not sure what toe settings I want!

Setup: WRX Sedan with stock suspension. 17x7.5" wheels with 225x45/17 tires (Azenis). Will install an adjustable 20-24 mm swaybar with Kartboy endlinks in a few weeks, probably starting at the lowest setting and going from there.

Use: Daily driver. Regular Auto-X (STX class). So I want settings that works well chasing around the cones, but I can't use something that would make the car unstable at higher speeds during daily driving, or cause excessive tire wear.

I'm sure that I want much more negative camber in the front, I'll probably just ask them to max it out, which should give me about -1.3 degrees. I'm unsure about the toe. I'm tempted to try a little front toe-out (1/16" ?) for faster steering response. I know that some people like toe-out in the rear for auto-x, but I'm afraid that it might make the car unstable for daily driving? And in the thread where people posted their alignment settings, many actually had toe-in in the front and/or rear.

So if anybody can give me some last minute input, I would appreciate that.
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Old 05-02-2002, 11:15 AM   #2
trhoppe
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I run a DS WRX.

-1.4 camber in the front.
-1.5 camber in the back.

1/8" toe out all around.

The 1/8" toe out feels great but it does effect tire wear a bit but not much. This is on the stock tires so I dunno about Azenis.
If you are having problems with getting the car to rotate, go ahead and go with 1/8" out all around. The car will turn in a little quicker and also rotate a little quicker. It won't be a HUGE difference though.

You could also do 1/16" out all around as well. I don't know how much difference that will make, but shouldnt be any tire wear issues.
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Old 05-02-2002, 11:19 AM   #3
jmott
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setting the toe at zero usually works pretty well. Zero toe when the car is still usually works out to a teeny bit of toe out when the car is moving.
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Old 05-02-2002, 04:13 PM   #4
SubbyRS
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Running a smidgeon of toe-in can counteract the tendency to toe-out under acceleration.
Personally, I'd run zero toe at the front and anywhere from 1 to 3mm (total) toe-out on the rear. At present I'm running a little rear toe-out & it HAS reduced understeer a little (enough to take the edge off) but it's also worn the inside tyre edge faster (not much more though)....
Horses for course, I know full wheel alignments aren't really cheap but they're probably the easiest & cheapest suspension modification you can do.....they're definitely something to play around with until you find the settings that suit your driving style..
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Old 05-02-2002, 08:54 PM   #5
TheWRX
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Ok, I got -1.0/-1.1 camber in the front, that's the maximum they could get (see story below...). I'm slightly confused about the toe measurements. I specified 1/16" of toe-out in the front. The listing I got lists the toe in degrees. What's the proper unit? How are they converted? I now have -0.11/-0.11 degrees of toe in the front (total toe -0.22). When I asked about the sign, they told me that negative numbers were toe-out.

BTW: The original (stock) alignment was totally off. I had -0.31/-0.27 degrees of toe in the front. Rear toe was -0.06/-0.01.

Wow, that was a bigger ordeal than expected! Took 3.5 hours. They were "finished" after two hours, saying that there was no adjustment for front camber. When I persisted they even called a Subaru dealer and talked to the technicians there. They also told them that there was no front camber adjustment! As a last resort, I connected to i-club on the PC in the guy's office, did a search, and showed him a few posts that explained how to do the adjustment. Eventually they removed the top bolt, and finally recognized that it was eccentric.
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Old 05-03-2002, 09:23 AM   #6
trhoppe
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The alignment machines use degrees and they can convert them to inches as well. They probably just converted to do the measurement and then converted back.

A good idea when getting a "performance" alignment is to go to one of the area's performance shops. They will charge you $60 instead of $40 but you will definetly get it done correctly. Im lucky because at the Merchants next to my works I have a GREAT alignment guy that used to work for one of the nascar teams so he knows what the hell he is doing.

-Tom
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Old 05-03-2002, 11:42 AM   #7
Austin
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Default Re: to toe out or not to toe out...

Quote:
Originally posted by TheWRX
Use: Daily driver. Regular Auto-X (STX class). So I want settings that works well chasing around the cones, but I can't use something that would make the car unstable at higher speeds during daily driving, or cause excessive tire wear.
1/8" total toe out, front and rear... so 1/16" toe out at each corner.
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