Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Monday July 6, 2015
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Transmission (AT/MT) & Driveline

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-07-2011, 09:04 PM   #26
rexworx
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 103232
Join Date: Dec 2005
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: GTX3076R-276/272, STX67
Vehicle:
MY05 GDA,MY04FXT6spd
2.5ltr,PPG,Front LSD,4.44

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MY EJ20T View Post
2.0 engines take 4.8 us qts
We're talking 5spd trannies there bud not engines..
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
rexworx is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 01-07-2011, 09:05 PM   #27
rexworx
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 103232
Join Date: Dec 2005
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: GTX3076R-276/272, STX67
Vehicle:
MY05 GDA,MY04FXT6spd
2.5ltr,PPG,Front LSD,4.44

Default

Im pretty sure AndrewTech "does not" recomend the Heavey Weight stuff...
rexworx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2011, 02:35 PM   #28
mneste8718
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 51562
Join Date: Dec 2003
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Raleigh NC/High Point NC
Vehicle:
2004 WRX Sedan PSM
EJ205 VF39@22psi 300whp

Default

I haven't noticed anything going wrong. Shifting is fine... haven't been grinding any more than before. Been using this for a long while now too...
mneste8718 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2011, 03:42 PM   #29
WhiteBgeye02
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 224785
Join Date: Sep 2009
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: neenah
Vehicle:
2005 wrx-jdm207
i went black...

Default

i got the heavy weight and like it says not good for syncro engaugement. too bad i didnt read that when i got the ****. i guess ill try the light weight stuff and get as much of the heavyweight out as i can. prob still have 1 quart of heavyweight in it but its better than straight heavyweight like i am running now.
WhiteBgeye02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2011, 07:20 PM   #30
xS2k
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 85112
Join Date: Apr 2005
Default

What rear diff fluids are you guys using with this cocktail?
xS2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2012, 04:51 AM   #31
o2compressor
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 256122
Join Date: Aug 2010
Default

should i do this to my '11 wrx? and the same with the rear? is the cocktail best for the transmission?
o2compressor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2012, 10:17 PM   #32
Mr. Mercado
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 36559
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Toronto, Ontario (T.O.)
Vehicle:
2003 Impreza WRX
WRB

Default

Has there been any evidence that redline shockproof is bad for 04 Sti 6MT? I have straight redline gear oil and still have 4th gear grind would like to try adding some shockproof instead of flushing out and putting $$ of straight motul 300.

Driving is strictly street.

Thanks!
Mr. Mercado is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2012, 08:22 AM   #33
Samurai Jack
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 21145
Join Date: Jul 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Not in my own time
Vehicle:
2002 Enemy of Aku

Default

The problem with using Redline Shockproof, either lightweight or heavyweight, in the 04 STi 6MT is that it is too "clingy" to the metal.

There were posts about this previously. The culprit is that the 04 - 06 STi 6MT uses a pump to move the gear oil around, as opposed to the 5MT which is a "splash box". In the 5MT, all the gear oil just gets splashed/sloshed around from the spinning gears.

As the gear oil is pumped, the shockproof clings to the inside of the pump tube, and you have the possibility of clogging the pump tube, which then leads to lack of proper oil distribution, which can lead to failure of the 6MT.

Redline did not recommend the use of the shockproof products in the 04 - 06 STi 6MTs.

The 07+ STi 6MTs went back to the splash box design.

However, Andrewtech does recommend using Redline shockproof in the 04 - 06 STi 6MT
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrewtech Automotive (circa 04/21/2010)
absolutely recommend this mix.

Why? I've spoken to the guys at Redline. The reason they don't recommend it for MOST synchro-type transmissions has to do with the amount of friction modifiers present in the fluid.

Typical GL-5 fluid has ~1% friction modifier. Shockproof has 3%.

The reason it's not for most synchro type transmissions is because it's actually to good a lubricant for most synchros to properly function.

As it IS rated for rear differentials, and the Subaru 5MT has what is essentially a rear differential as a front differential, there is no issue with respect to fluid pressures and stress.

The film thickness is what keeps our synchros working. Hydrostatic pressure builds between the balk ring and the synchro cone as pressure is applied. That pressure is what brakes the shaft.

SO, the reason Redline says it's not suitable for MOST (note: it doesn't say ALL) synchronized transmissions, is that it might be too slick for proper synchro function.

As it's been shown, it DOES allow proper function of Subaru synchronizers.

The only downside is the fluid thickness tends to have poor low-temp flow numbers. The solution to that? Mix it with a high quality synthetic fluid. The same thing we've been recommending for years.

Andrew
Then, there is this from the same thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlatironsTuning.com (circa 04/23/12)
The only thing I would be concerned about is the Shockproof gear oil having an effect on the oil pump in the transmission. Redline specifically says not to run any shockproof gear oil in anything that has an oil pump. This is because the bonding property of the shockproof gear oils has a tendency to clog them.

If you have been running this fluid in the 6MT and have not been seeing any issue with this, then it is likely a moot point. And it could definitely be that mixing it with another fluid helps thin it to the point where this is not as much of an issue.
Then, there is also this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Monson (circa 06/21/12)
That stuff (Redline Ligtweight Shockproof) separates 30 seconds after you drive the car away after the service and impregnates every last corner and crevice of the gearbox with sludge. Most useless gear oil product ever put on the market.

If you want to mix something with your Redline NS to get a bit of friction modifiers in there, just use regular Redline GL5 rated gear oil. Or run 100% Redline NS and add a touch of GM Synchromesh. But please, above all else, do not put shockproof in your gearbox

I manufacture gears and LSDs for a living. My products have won the 24 Hours of Lemans, the 24 Hours of Daytona and the 24 Hours of the Nurburgring, multiple times. Our gears were in Pastrana's car when he broke the record at Mt Washington, and in Higgins car when he broke the record at the Isle of Mann. I live, eat and breathe motorsports gearboxes.

Redline themselves discourages the use of shockproof in the cocktails that are being used in the Subaru community. It was never designed for use in a synchromesh gearbox and I discourage the use of it in one. You are free to do what you like.

Last edited by Samurai Jack; 06-22-2012 at 09:40 AM.
Samurai Jack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2012, 11:52 AM   #34
Trudd84
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 250706
Join Date: Jun 2010
Chapter/Region: South East
Vehicle:
2004 Impreza WRX
WR Blue

Default

So What if I can get my hands on Redline 75W90 GL-5, But no 75W90 Gl-5 NS. I do however have access to Amsoil products. What then is the suggestion for the replacement of the 75W90 GL-5 NS? Is Amsoil gear lube, which I read a guy said he is using by itself with no problems, as quality of a product for the Subaru transmission?
Trudd84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2012, 01:01 PM   #35
Samurai Jack
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 21145
Join Date: Jul 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Not in my own time
Vehicle:
2002 Enemy of Aku

Default

No reason you can't find any of the Redline products. I order mine from either Jegs or Summit as I don't have a local source

I know someone who has been using AMSOil products in his Outback for several years and he likes them, but what specific products I don't know.

Redine 75W90 (not MT-90 75W90) is a GL-5 lubricant, but it is NOT recommended for MTs
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redline
This product is not designed for use in most manual transmissions or transaxles in passenger vehicles, since the extreme slipperiness may cause synchronizer mesh issues that lead to shifting problems
Redline 75W90NS is a GL-5 lubricant and IS recommended in Subaru MTs
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redline
Designed for transmissions and transaxles - helps to slow synchros for easier shifting across a broad temperature range.
Popular in Ferrari, Porsche and Subaru transaxles
Redline Lightweight Shockproof does not say you can't use it in Subaru transmissions. and the reason I currently use it as part of my 50/50 mix
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redline
Relatively low viscosity, yet cushions gear teeth under extreme pressure
Helps to prevent tooth breakage, resists throw-off

Avoid use with pumps, coolers, and filters as unique medium and affinity for metal can cause clogging
So, I just got off the phone with one of Redline's techs:
- 75W90NS is the only one recommended for the Subarus because it most closely resembles the OEM fill
- They did not say you can't/shouldn't use the Lightweight Shockproof in the Subaru MT
- They said the 75W90NS and the Lightweight Shockproof are compatible and do blend together
- They said the "sludge" are the solid microscopic particles that offer low drag/high protection that get centrifuged out under certain conditions on the main shaft under high pressure, but this material gets sluffed off and get re-absorbed back into the transmission fluid during normal operation

And I just got off the phone with Andrewtech:
- They still are recommending their "Andrew Cocktail" of a 50/50 mix of Redline Lightweight Shockproof and Motul 300
- They said they are not seeing any sludge build-up in the MTs from this mix

What does all this mean to me personally? I'm sticking with my 50/50 mix of Redline 75W90NS and Redline Lightweight Shockproof at this time.

I found that the 75W90NS was a huge improvement over OEM fill and adding in the Lightweight Shockproof to the 75W90NS was as far above the 75W90NS as the 75W90NS was above the OEM fill

Last edited by Samurai Jack; 06-22-2012 at 03:15 PM.
Samurai Jack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2012, 01:34 AM   #36
Jimmy P
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 297302
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Chicagos north side
Vehicle:
2006 WRX
PSM

Default

Jimmy P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2012, 07:37 AM   #37
Samurai Jack
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 21145
Join Date: Jul 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Not in my own time
Vehicle:
2002 Enemy of Aku

Default

Samurai Jack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2012, 12:57 AM   #38
Jimmy P
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 297302
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Chicagos north side
Vehicle:
2006 WRX
PSM

Default

Quote:
And I just got off the phone with Andrewtech:
- They still are recommending their "Andrew Cocktail" of a 50/50 mix of Redline Lightweight Shockproof and Motul 300
- They said they are not seeing any sludge build-up in the MTs from this mix
I thought the Andrewtech Cocktail consisted of 3quarts of Lightweight Shockproof and then being topped off with Motul 300? Not a 50.50 mix.
Jimmy P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2012, 11:13 AM   #39
vicious_fishes
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 158864
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Aussieland
Vehicle:
2003 GD w/EZ30 swap

Default

why are you guys choosing the lightweight over the heavy?
vicious_fishes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2012, 04:13 PM   #40
Samurai Jack
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 21145
Join Date: Jul 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Not in my own time
Vehicle:
2002 Enemy of Aku

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy P View Post
I thought the Andrewtech Cocktail consisted of 3quarts of Lightweight Shockproof and then being topped off with Motul 300? Not a 50.50 mix.
They used to, but they changed their approach and went to a 50/50 mix
Samurai Jack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2012, 04:16 PM   #41
Samurai Jack
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 21145
Join Date: Jul 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Not in my own time
Vehicle:
2002 Enemy of Aku

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vicious_fishes View Post
why are you guys choosing the lightweight over the heavy?
Due to this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redline
Not recommended for most synchro applications due to the product's extreme slipperiness
Samurai Jack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2012, 04:55 PM   #42
vicious_fishes
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 158864
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Aussieland
Vehicle:
2003 GD w/EZ30 swap

Default

interesting. see i have 1qt heavy and the rest motul as per uncle scotty's instructions and it feels fantastic.
vicious_fishes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2012, 07:03 PM   #43
mickee13
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 69208
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Richmond
Default

Had a bad grind going from 3rd to 4th in my '03 wrx with 165,000K. Couldnt' shift above 3500 without some nasty grinding. Figured I'd give the Andrewtech mix a go thinking it probably wouldn't help or maybe help a little. Grind TOTALLY gone!!
I am nothing short of amazed. Never did I think that oil alone could solve this. Seriously blown away. Saw Andrewtech's correspondence with RedLine stating that the syncro's in the Subaru would love the lightweight......sure seems that way.
mickee13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2012, 09:22 PM   #44
vicious_fishes
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 158864
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Aussieland
Vehicle:
2003 GD w/EZ30 swap

Default

so apparently the heavy shockproof is too slippery or whatever for syncro's, and motul gear 300 is too slippery for 5 speeds, and i have a combination of both.


and it's great.
vicious_fishes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2013, 10:01 PM   #45
sexyrexyrex
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 344705
Join Date: Jan 2013
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Agoura Hills
Vehicle:
2006 WRX
PSM

Default

So I'm going to bring this thread back from the dead. Flame on.
I have a 2006 WRX tr stage 2 with 87k miles. 4th gear grinded above 3.3-3.5k RPM since I bought the car about 2 weeks ago. I decided to go with the Andrewtech cocktail because of the positive feedback I got on here. I just finished doing the transmission fluid about 3 hours ago and all I can say is WOW! 4th gear grind is absolutely non existent. Gone completely. No grind whatsoever. Best $50 I have spent on the car by far! Thanks to the guys at Andrewtech!
sexyrexyrex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2013, 11:02 PM   #46
iyzmi
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 150004
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Vehicle:
2002 18g WRX
WRB 310hp/285tq

Default

I used Motul Gear 300 for my last fluid change about 30k miles ago in my 02 WRX. I haven't noticed any drawbacks from it being "too slippery." What is the advantage of using the 50/50 Andrewtech cocktail over just straight Motul?
iyzmi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2013, 11:42 PM   #47
hybrid gti 2
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 67004
Join Date: Jul 2004
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: (818) 200k+ ej205 ppg 5mt
Vehicle:
02 vf30 pnp wagon
silver and cf

Default

I found the motul 300 on it's own to shift very notchy. I use Redline lwsp without mixing oils. It works just fine on any syncro box that doesn't have a built in pump.
hybrid gti 2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2013, 12:25 AM   #48
Uncle Scotty
Visiting NASIOC Timeout
 
Member#: 16200
Join Date: Mar 2002
Vehicle:
OK buy Nates beans
westcoastroasting.com

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hybrid gti 2 View Post
I found the motul 300 on it's own to shift very notchy. I use Redline lwsp without mixing oils. It works just fine on any syncro box that doesn't have a built in pump.
I have found out that the lw shockproof wears out after 15-20k miles.....I have found that the heavyweight shockproof is much better and that the lightweight isn't necessary or desireable
Uncle Scotty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2013, 09:53 AM   #49
gsrcrxsi
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 236952
Join Date: Jan 2010
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Baltimore
Vehicle:
2010 WRX (SSM)
Stg "2+" 300hp/360trq

Default

I'm curious how all you guys have so many transmission troubles at relatively low miles (<100k)

I had the OEM fill for the first 30k and ever since I've run Motul 75w90 straight with no mixes in both the tranny and the rear diff(changed at 60k and 90k). I'm at about 95k and it never grinds and still shifts like day one. It has NEVER ground a gear that wasn't my fault (ie me letting off the clutch too soon, before the gears were engaged)

I'm sure the mixes will help a tranny that is having issues, but it seems that a lot of issues are being caused by abuse or lack of maintenance. Isn't the recommended fluid change interval 30k? Seems like a lot of people aren't doing this.

Actually just looked at the service schedule, it says "Inspect" trans and diff fluids, not "replace", but I really think it should be replaced on that interval.
gsrcrxsi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2013, 04:39 PM   #50
rjs1022
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 341952
Join Date: Dec 2012
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Ellicott City, MD
Vehicle:
2007 WRX
Black

Default

Just did my trans fluid yesterday, Andrewtech Cocktail made a night and day diff! Love it
rjs1022 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
+1 again for AndrewTech!!! hopefully i don't in trouble for another AndrewTech thread siopao2000 Mid Atlantic Impreza Club -- MAIC 33 01-09-2007 10:51 PM
The Ballad of the Ice-Worm Cocktail Porter Off-Topic 5 12-21-2004 06:20 PM
Cocktail Table Arcade Game Unit 91 Southern California Impreza Club Forum -- SCIC 15 09-08-2004 08:38 PM
I need a cocktail TheRex Off-Topic 1 03-19-2004 01:46 AM
Tranny Cocktail Barry Transmission (AT/MT) & Driveline 13 01-22-2004 10:59 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:58 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2015 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2015, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.