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View Poll Results: Is M3's answer to mean editor "dickish"?
Yes, very dickish 3 15.79%
No- it's what we were all thinking 16 84.21%
Voters: 19. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-12-2009, 03:09 PM   #1
M3's R scooby snacks
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Default Future of Magazines

I am in advertising for a living and the concept is simple. We call it ROI (return on investment). I suspect you burned your bridge with current and future advertisers when you became unreliable on delivery times.

I work for a daily newspaper and understand better than anyone what the future for print publications looks like and the scramble to stay ahead of the game. I also took a 5% pay cut and will be enjoying a week off without pay (furlough) while doing the job that 3 people would have been doing this time last year. The difference being that we understand we have a commitment to current subscribers and advertisers. We don't use the excuses you do. "We are the only Subaru mag- you are lucky we are here...we are doing YOU the favor" or "Look at all the other magazines that aren't perfoming or are going under". Look within, take responsibility for your actions, shoot straight with your advertisers and us the customers and quit lying about realease dates.

As stated by others- I paid for a print publication. I sit in front of a computer 9 hrs a day as it is. I don't want to read a DVD magazine in my free time nor is that what I was purchasing when you cashed my check.

Andrew
PS: Just received my newest issue of "Drive Perfomance". That's 2 I have recieved since I have seen a Subie Sport.
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Last edited by M3's R scooby snacks; 08-12-2009 at 03:27 PM.
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Old 08-12-2009, 03:18 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3's R scooby snacks View Post
I am in advertising for a living and the concept is simple. We call it ROA (return on investment). I suspect you burned your bridge with current and future advertisers when you became unreliable on delivery times.
Many of our previous advertisers have, yes, cut print entirely. Not just SS, but all other magazines, for the reason you state, the ROI isn't there in the print-only model. And the cuts were made going into 2009 (look at any car magazine 2008 vs. 2009), which certainly didn't help us deliver any sooner. And, again supporting my comments, it's not just Subiesport, it's the entire industry. Thank you.

Last edited by ricochet; 08-12-2009 at 03:27 PM.
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Old 08-12-2009, 03:26 PM   #3
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I am glad I could bring light to your current predicament- neither your advertisers or subscribers have received a return on their investment.
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Old 08-12-2009, 03:32 PM   #4
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I work for a daily newspaper and understand better than anyone what the future for print publications looks like and the scramble to stay ahead of the game.
Actually, that makes you an advertising person that may understand how your market is affected by the current changes in the advertising landscape (and you may be very, very good at that), that does not make you an expert in publishing. I have the utmost respect for advertising sales people, as I have been there myself, but the differences between newspapers and magazines, and the positions of sales and publishing are vast.
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Old 08-12-2009, 03:33 PM   #5
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I am glad I could bring light to your current predicament- neither your advertisers or subscribers have received a return on their investment.
Anyone reading the Wall Street Journal could make that call. A reminder, too, that your opinion is just that. Your opinion. An opinion that I respect within the proper context but not that of our entire readership.
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Old 08-12-2009, 03:57 PM   #6
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Seeing as how all the other threads were shut down I would like to pose the question as to what separates a digital subscription from a regular subscription in this new DVD driven format? The fact that a publication would blindside its subscribers into complying with a completely new format without so much as a letter sent is beyond me. Seeing as how I will now be REQUIRED to use my computer to view my issue of SubieSport their is little reason between logging into the SubieSport site to view content versus popping in the DVD.

Also on a side note you may want to update your site as just about everything in regards to subscriptions refers to it as "Print Edition" which could be misleading for a magazine that ships DVDs.
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Old 08-12-2009, 04:03 PM   #7
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I honestly don't think that a bi-monthly magazine that has put out 2 issues in the last 7-8 months can argue that the advertiser or subscriber has received what they paid for.

Magazines and newspapers are not that different at all. We both deliver a product that our customers have paid for, that our advertisers have invested in, on time, without making excuses based on industry trend or what others in the industry are doing. Wait a minute....we really are different.
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Old 08-12-2009, 04:03 PM   #8
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Seeing as how I will now be REQUIRED to use my computer to view my issue of SubieSport their is little reason between logging into the SubieSport site to view content versus popping in the DVD.

Also on a side note you may want to update your site as just about everything in regards to subscriptions refers to it as "Print Edition" which could be misleading for a magazine that ships DVDs.
...you can also put it in your DVD player, or rip the video for personal use to your iPhone, GPhone, whatever.

The sub differences is that one is physical delivery (the DVD has more than we can put online and is higher-res than the online version) and the other digital delivery. We're updating the sites this week to reflect the new format. Our subscription rate is also increasing at the same time.
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Old 08-12-2009, 04:05 PM   #9
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Magazines and newspapers are not that different at all. We both deliver a product that our customers have paid for, that our advertisers have invested in, on time, without making excuses based on industry trend or what others in the industry are doing. Wait a minute....we really are different.
By that definition you could argue that newspapers and McDonalds are also very similar. It sounds like your newspaper is very unique. Now, let's stop speculating and focus on the content of issue 26 and/or give concrete suggestions for future editions. (no, wait, ill start a new thread for that keep this topic on SS26.)
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Old 08-12-2009, 04:06 PM   #10
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Default Future of Magazines

Since the SS26 thread was devolving into a discussion regarding the merits of print versus digital content, this new thread will merge all those posts and clean up that thread.

We now continue with the discussion of print, digital and the future of magazines as we know them.
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Old 08-13-2009, 09:14 PM   #11
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...you can also put it in your DVD player, or rip the video for personal use to your iPhone, GPhone, whatever.

The sub differences is that one is physical delivery (the DVD has more than we can put online and is higher-res than the online version) and the other digital delivery. We're updating the sites this week to reflect the new format. Our subscription rate is also increasing at the same time.
But some people paid for a "Print Edition", i could really care less what i can do with the DVD you send, as it is not what i signed up for, If when i signed up it said it would be a DVD mag i would never have bothered wasting my money,

I don't even own a DVD player so what do you want me to do with your dvd?? please let me know
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Old 08-14-2009, 10:57 AM   #12
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I think that the print edition is importent to maintain for the customer that paid for it.

However, having the ability to publish the magazine digitaly gives you the jump on print magazines, make it alot easier to publish an edition or even a special edition between the bimonthlys, keeping us more up to date on what is going on. this could elimanate reading about the x-games rally in september.

The ditial media has serious benifits that are being over looked by cridics, AND UNDERSOLD by SUBIESPORT.

I think you need to market your magazine as a faster smarter Subiesport, I think some people would be hip to that

You could say...

"If you like reading about the X-Games Rally in September, then lets not change this,but if you like instant access to the CURRENT events and realtime updates on Rally and Subie news, then follow us, The future of Subiesport is NOW"

Last edited by putz; 08-14-2009 at 11:45 AM.
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Old 08-19-2009, 02:44 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by M3's R scooby snacks View Post
I am in advertising for a living and the concept is simple. We call it ROI (return on investment). I suspect you burned your bridge with current and future advertisers when you became unreliable on delivery times.

I work for a daily newspaper and understand better than anyone what the future for print publications looks like and the scramble to stay ahead of the game. I also took a 5% pay cut and will be enjoying a week off without pay (furlough) while doing the job that 3 people would have been doing this time last year. The difference being that we understand we have a commitment to current subscribers and advertisers. We don't use the excuses you do. "We are the only Subaru mag- you are lucky we are here...we are doing YOU the favor" or "Look at all the other magazines that aren't perfoming or are going under". Look within, take responsibility for your actions, shoot straight with your advertisers and us the customers and quit lying about realease dates.

As stated by others- I paid for a print publication. I sit in front of a computer 9 hrs a day as it is. I don't want to read a DVD magazine in my free time nor is that what I was purchasing when you cashed my check.

Andrew
PS: Just received my newest issue of "Drive Perfomance". That's 2 I have recieved since I have seen a Subie Sport.
First off, Drive Performance? Are you kidding me? That's half a magazine at best and most of the time is just a brochure for STI-badged mudflaps. Seriously?

And what kind of ******* just accuses a company of lying about their product/release dates. Have you looked around yourself? If I was in advertising in a print publication right now I would not be throwing stones too far. I would be looking for a meal ticket because chances are my job will evaporate from beneath my feet momentarily. Just FYI so how about you climb down from your high horse and take stock of the print industry.

In a word, it's effed. The cost of paper, ink and shipping has skyrocketed in the last couple years. Have you ever walked into the accounting office and asked what the margins are on your publication? Probably pretty damn thin. What's your ad to content ratio looking like these days? How's that page count doing?

So, if a magazine or publication or any company has a shortfall of capital should they just close shop and say, screw it? No one gets anything, because that is the alternative. OR go completely online like the Oregonian will be doing shortly and many other publications have, or just closed shop altogether. Go ahead, try and get the subscription money back, I will time you.

Instead, Subiesport has reorganized and refit and is doing something to survive in this new era of publication.

Also, please do not presume to know anything about the relationships Subiesport has with its advertisers. Spare me your lectures on "commitment to current subscribers and advertisers." How dare you? Do you have some insight into how the advertisers feel about the magazine? Do you monitor the conversations the publisher has with advertisers?

I am going to go out on a limb here and say you write for a small, local paper (insert small town name here) Gazette. You probably have a small circulation and a modest ad base of the local insurance agents, dentists office and real estate agents and car dealerships. The last two of which have probably cut their ad dollars by a significant margin or altogether. My other guess is that you probably graduated recently from whatever Journalism program spat you out with 10 clips under your belt from whatever rag passes for a school newspaper or magazine. You also wanted to be a feature writer, but they needed somone to drum up ads so you are doing that now instead. Sucks huh?

This high and might bull**** is just that. I watched at least a dozen of my collegues get the rug yanked out from them at SEMA this year. Just before I left the magazine I had a chance to meet up with and talk with the editors of every major import tuning magazine... Not a one was smiling about the state of the magazine industry and many knew that their jobs, indeed their titles, were on the chopping block.

Advertising is down, because people aren't spending money. This industry as a whole is seeing a serious downturn that is not helped by the overall economic downturn. Couple that with the fact that the general consumer expects to buy parts sometimes hundreds of dollars below MSRP cutting margins razor thin. Also, ebay and other purveyors of cheap chinese **** parts have taken away market share from retailers.

So, you can choose to support your local retailer with your dollars and the enthusiast publication who has served you faithfully for the past 5 years without fail, or you can take your dollars elsewhere. That is your choice as a consumer, but spare us your lectures and don't bitch when the marketplace is all of a sudden bereft of any reading material at all because you are a cheap bastard.
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Old 08-19-2009, 06:36 PM   #14
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Did you send this from your blackberry while standing in the soup line? I will try to dumb it down for you since you don't seem to get it.

1.Drive magazine was as thick as Subiesport this month, yes-seriously.

2.When a company says that you should see an issue in early July and it finally shows up in the 3rd week of Aug that is a gross misrepresentation of the truth (often referred to as a lie)

3. So..... your saying you have a shortage of capital?

4. How do the advertisers feel about Subiesport? I apologize- you are right, I did not email both of them to ask. With 4 months between issues maybe they like the extended shelf life?

5. I said I was in advertising which means we generally have marketing and/or business degrees. Writers have journalism degrees. I know by the state you left Subiesport in that you know nothing of marketing or business so this is of no shock to me you don't know the difference. I actually work for 1 of the 2 largest papers in the state -as I said before "daily paper". "daily" means everyday. Bi-monthly means every other month (another term I know you dont get since it's been 4-5 months between issues)

Skipping to the last paragraph since you rubbing elbows with import tuner editors and collectively racking your brains for solutions to your lack of content, lack of advertisers and bi-monthly magazine being quarterley didn't do any of us any good.....

6. 5 years without fail? You have failed all of 2009 and it's almost over. Bereft of reading material? The magazine is 15 pages. Wake up.

As a good will gesture I will keep my eye's peeled for a new career for you, now let's see... marketing, advertising, journalism didn't work out...I would probably stay away from anything involving customer service since you seem to have an anger management issue....Well, I'll get back to you.
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Old 08-19-2009, 06:54 PM   #15
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Did you send this from your blackberry while standing in the soup line? I will try to dumb it down for you since you don't seem to get it.

1.Drive magazine was as thick as Subiesport this month, yes-seriously.

2.When a company says that you should see an issue in early July and it finally shows up in the 3rd week of Aug that is a gross misrepresentation of the truth (often referred to as a lie)

3. So..... your saying you have a shortage of capital?

4. How do the advertisers feel about Subiesport? I apologize- you are right, I did not email both of them to ask. With 4 months between issues maybe they like the extended shelf life?

5. I said I was in advertising which means we generally have marketing and/or business degrees. Writers have journalism degrees. I know by the state you left Subiesport in that you know nothing of marketing or business so this is of no shock to me you don't know the difference. I actually work for 1 of the 2 largest papers in the state -as I said before "daily paper". "daily" means everyday. Bi-monthly means every other month (another term I know you dont get since it's been 4-5 months between issues)

Skipping to the last paragraph since you rubbing elbows with import tuner editors and collectively racking your brains for solutions to your lack of content, lack of advertisers and bi-monthly magazine being quarterley didn't do any of us any good.....

6. 5 years without fail? You have failed all of 2009 and it's almost over. Bereft of reading material? The magazine is 15 pages. Wake up.

As a good will gesture I will keep my eye's peeled for a new career for you, now let's see... marketing, advertising, journalism didn't work out...I would probably stay away from anything involving customer service since you seem to have an anger management issue....Well, I'll get back to you.

Ummm, good for you,..... Dick.

This may all be true, but man, you're being a real dick about it. Part of me thinks you relish the failures of others. That is the kind of thing a real prick would do.

Even though you are right, it doesn't make you any less of a dick.
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Old 08-19-2009, 07:10 PM   #16
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Putz, be honest...we lost you at the word "bereft" didn't we?
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Old 08-19-2009, 08:08 PM   #17
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I'm sorry, I thought you might actually know something about the market you work in, but apparently that is not the case. I see nothing in your trite response that even comes close to rational, informed or thoughtful. It seems to me that you actually know F***K-All about publishing, the magazine industry and the import tuing industry at large.

Of course, the bottom line is money. This is why we do our jobs, this is how we make our living, this is how we get the printer to print and ship the magazine. Money, pays for the paper, the ink and the electricity to keep the lights on. If you don't have any, nothing happens. The import tuning industry on the whole has shrunk quite a lot, market share has decreased, there are fewer manufacturers, shops etc to support a magazine industry that relies on advertising dollars to survive, that is the conundrum. Subsrciptions alone are not enough to float any publication, go ask your publisher.

And really, you can make all the jabs at myself and my personality you want, but the bottom line is that you have added nothing of substance to this conversation. You say you sell ads for the second largest newspaper in Washington... have you not seen what is going on? Of course, you say you have taken a pay cut and unpaid vacation etc. So what the hell is your problem? You want your $20 back?

And the state I left the magazine in was the most technically in-depth import tuning publication on the rack with great photography, indepth coverage of rally racing and informed technical features on tuning, ECU funtion, fuel... really, you have nothing here. You didn't like the bumpers and the fenders I put on my car, fine. Did you miss the part where we did 10 pages of suspension install? NA-turbo build?

It blows my mind that in the middle of what is probably the death of the publishing industry as we know it, some kid with a WRX, who works at a NEWSPAPER of all places, will come on a forum bad-mouthing a publication. A publication that has worked tirelessly to bring the community not only a quality publication, but will be putting on the 4th All-Subaru motorsport extravaganza later this fall. And despite the financial troubles, continues to bring new and innovative content where others would have simply closed shop. How dare you sir!?!

Like I said before, if you don't like it, get a refund, that is your right as the consumer. If you have so much insight, depth and knowledge in this matter, show a little.
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Old 08-19-2009, 08:26 PM   #18
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I would love a refund
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Old 08-19-2009, 09:04 PM   #19
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I can't see why you are so upset? Wait a minute....you haven't recieved your latest issue either?

Well, the good news is that you are 3rd in line behind Evil and I for refunds! Cheers!
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Old 08-20-2009, 12:36 AM   #20
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Ummm, good for you,..... Dick.

This may all be true, but man, you're being a real dick about it. Part of me thinks you relish the failures of others. That is the kind of thing a real prick would do.

Even though you are right, it doesn't make you any less of a dick.
Did you read MeanEditors' post? Is that levelheaded and professional. kthxbye

Quote:
It blows my mind that in the middle of what is probably the death of the publishing industry as we know it, some kid with a WRX, who works at a NEWSPAPER of all places, will come on a forum bad-mouthing a publication.
"Some kid with a wrx"..... you're so ignorant it hurts. Yet you're still defensive. Being a jackass and forum bitch means nothing nor does it help your case.

I agree 100% with M3. It's fiving ridiculous. If you can't put out 6 issues a year, don't make people pay for them. Simple.
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Old 08-20-2009, 03:16 AM   #21
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I originally posted this in the issue 26 thread, but I guess I'll be less of an ass and post it in a more appropriate thread.

How can I put this nicely.

People buy a magazine to read. Not watch a dvd. They do not buy a magazine to read 5+ pages of full pages ads, when the magazine is 15 pages by itself. You cannot read a goddamn DVD on the toilet. You cannot read a DVD while waiting at the doctor's office, or at the shop.

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The DVD is the equivalent of a 150+ page magazine.
By what ridiculous conversion formula are you basing this number on? Oh, and guess what, we don't care. We wanted a magazine, not a movie. If it came in a DVD case with no magazine at all you'd probably have less pissed off people

Judging by the rapidly degrading quality of your magazines, the discussions I have had with several people, and your behavior on these forums, you are an idiot who does not know how to retain subscribers or listen to well intentioned and correct advice. Whining about the decline of the printed magazine and how the industry is structured doesn't excuse treating your subscribers like crap. I know you've lost me permanently as a reader. I'd rather spend my $10 on something with infinitely more content, like EVO Magazine or Modified Mag.

Good luck in whatever you do next, because if you follow the same business strategy it's doomed to fail as spectacularly as Subiesport has. Especially if you have a loudmouth prick like MeanEditor shooting his mouth off in public.

PS.
Nice poll.

Last edited by vecdran; 08-20-2009 at 03:26 AM.
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Old 08-20-2009, 09:39 AM   #22
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Putz, be honest...we lost you at the word "bereft" didn't we?
LOLz, I said that I agree with you but you are still a dick.

I just thought I would drop to the level you and mean editor have decened to, and start some personal attacks. I kinda see you both as being more than a little over the top w/eagerness to blow-up and take stuff so personaly.

It's a magazine, you got a DVD, and your unhappy. What gives? It is not something a levelheaded person would let effect thier additude. I agree whole heartedly with you Mr. Scooby Snacks, but personal attacks are not constructive, so stop being a dick please.

From a marketing standpoint, wich you should understand, Mr. Mean Editor has yet to point out any of the advantages of digital media other than a brief ref to uploading to hand held devices. I think Ricohet should actualy head that argument, and see where that goes. This was not a well planned transition.

Edit: * Nice Poll, I laughed my ass off. *

Last edited by putz; 08-20-2009 at 11:30 AM.
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Old 08-20-2009, 03:54 PM   #23
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Alright, I had some time to think about this, I would be upset too if I were Mr. Scooby Snacks. However I have such an incredible capacity for appathy. I guess I just tend to not let these type of things upset me. Kind of a "I don't cry when my dog runs away..." type personality, but when I remove myself from the situation your reaction seems quite normal and that leads me to beleive that you may not be a dick, you just maybe uptight.
Most people are, Nothing to be ashamed of really. I guess I'm just kind of a step stool, or a floormat, but I don't seem to mind.

But back on track, I don't believe that there is any real prospect for print media, there is no format that is flourishing in the current age. Unless there is a catastophy, print media is a thing of the past, well at least in it's current form. I'm sure there are alot of us on here that bust out the balckberry while on the can already, why not go to the digital edition of subie sport? Is it the nastolgic appeal of physicaly flipping through the pages that makes it so satisfying to read a magazine at our lesure? Are we desenceitized by our computer related jobs that reading a magazine in a PDF format seems like work and thus less enjoyable? I don't know.

The Main point I think everyone is complaining is that the terms OF OUR SUBSCRIPRION should not be changed when we paid for a print edition bimonthly. We should at least have a print eddition till our subscription expires.

That is what we seem to be so hung up on, and if the Subiesport staff would take the time to point out how digital media is not that bad, and sell us on the idea... then this may not have been such a big deal. The transition was not well played.

Last edited by putz; 08-20-2009 at 06:00 PM.
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Old 08-20-2009, 08:25 PM   #24
aDoBo18
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this would not end well... so about the refunds?
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Old 08-20-2009, 09:42 PM   #25
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i would still like to know about a refund
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