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Old 05-03-2002, 01:11 PM   #1
STEALTH-WRX
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Default when you have nothing to do...

what i do for a living is put air suspension on trucks and cars. i know everyone hates it but it pays my bills. we use a electric vavles made by a company called smc. all of the parts we use are 12v. when we want the trucks and cars to move fast we use nitrogen and co2. what i am getting at is that co2 ( because it has moisture in it) gets really cold when comming out. what i am going to do is have two smc 15 mm vavles on my car. one will be inside my bumper hidden with a few small nozzles pointed at my front mount to spread evenly. the other vavles will be under hood spray at vavious sections of my intercooler piping close to the throttle body. i will have a small remote tank in my trunk. its at about 3500 psi in the tank so it will last long. the reason for not us nitrous oxide is because of cost to refil and i dont want to blow up with my new turbo. so far i have heard that for every ten degrees drop you get about 1-2% power increase because of better efficiency. so if the air before the intercooler is lets say 200 degrees and my intercooler and all of my crap can make it 100 degrees, then i have just gained a large number.

if my car had 200 hp to the wheels and 1 % is 2 hp. then 2 hp for every 10 degrees would mean with a 100 degree drop i have gain 20 hp to the wheels.

i dont think that my idea is going to work, but i have nothing better to do and i have all of the parts at my work. and for those that have been there, you guys understand.

the entire unit with all of the lines, wires, vavles and tanks weigh about 30 pounds. its not too bad and i can even the car out a little.
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Old 05-03-2002, 02:18 PM   #2
blarg
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carefull!!! dropping temperatures like that on some parts can crack them....plastic...hoses....your engine block....a temperature shock like that could do some major damage...and the CO2 could also lower the partial pressure of O2 that finds its way into your intake screwing up your A/F ration....same ammount of air, but less O2 in it.


A while ago I had a friend with an old Honda. He had a radiator leak and overheated on the freeway. He pulled into a gas station, and used the water hose to re-fill his coolant...just to get the car home....the temp shock cracked his engine block.

I'm guessing most components aren't designed for severe temperature drops like that.....I KNOW it'll crack your paint right off....
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Old 05-03-2002, 02:23 PM   #3
jmott
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Default Re: when you have nothing to do...

theres a company marketing a product that does exactly what you are planning.

I say go for it and test it at the track, and see how it does.


Quote:
Originally posted by STEALTH-WRX
what i do for a living is put air suspension on trucks and cars. i know everyone hates it but it pays my bills. we use a electric vavles made by a company called smc. all of the parts we use are 12v. when we want the trucks and cars to move fast we use nitrogen and co2. what i am getting at is that co2 ( because it has moisture in it) gets really cold when comming out. what i am going to do is have two smc 15 mm vavles on my car. one will be inside my bumper hidden with a few small nozzles pointed at my front mount to spread evenly. the other vavles will be under hood spray at vavious sections of my intercooler piping close to the throttle body. i will have a small remote tank in my trunk. its at about 3500 psi in the tank so it will last long. the reason for not us nitrous oxide is because of cost to refil and i dont want to blow up with my new turbo. so far i have heard that for every ten degrees drop you get about 1-2% power increase because of better efficiency. so if the air before the intercooler is lets say 200 degrees and my intercooler and all of my crap can make it 100 degrees, then i have just gained a large number.

if my car had 200 hp to the wheels and 1 % is 2 hp. then 2 hp for every 10 degrees would mean with a 100 degree drop i have gain 20 hp to the wheels.

i dont think that my idea is going to work, but i have nothing better to do and i have all of the parts at my work. and for those that have been there, you guys understand.

the entire unit with all of the lines, wires, vavles and tanks weigh about 30 pounds. its not too bad and i can even the car out a little.
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Old 05-03-2002, 02:35 PM   #4
TypeC
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Thumbs up Re: when you have nothing to do...

Quote:
Originally posted by STEALTH-WRX
if my car had 200 hp to the wheels and 1 % is 2 hp. then 2 hp for every 10 degrees would mean with a 100 degree drop i have gain 20 hp to the wheels.
funny you should say that. I say a dyno of a supra that sprayed Nitrous on the FMIC. It gaines 20whp just from that alone. That was awesome. This is cool since you'll already have access to the equipemt. Be sure to get some dyno pulls!
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Old 05-03-2002, 05:14 PM   #5
NoLimitWRX
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Thumbs up

sounds like a worthwhile project!

... so, how much $ would the kind of setup you're talking about cost the average joe?
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Old 05-03-2002, 05:34 PM   #6
nhluhr
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Default Re: when you have nothing to do...

Quote:
Originally posted by STEALTH-WRX
what i am getting at is that co2 ( because it has moisture in it) gets really cold when comming out
well, no moisture in the CO2 is not why it gets cold.

PV = znRT.

It's the Gas Law. When you let the CO2 flow from a high-pressure region (whatever pressure vessel it's in) to a low pressure region (the front of the intercooler), it loses T.
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Old 05-03-2002, 05:35 PM   #7
nhluhr
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Default Re: when you have nothing to do...

Quote:
Originally posted by STEALTH-WRX
what i am getting at is that co2 ( because it has moisture in it) gets really cold when comming out
well, no moisture in the CO2 is not why it gets cold.

PV = znRT.

It's the Gas Law. When you let the CO2 flow from a high-pressure region (whatever pressure vessel it's in) to a low pressure region (the front of the intercooler), it loses T.

The idea sounds like fun and I look forward to hearing how well it works! Perhaps further gains could be found through better (and/or cheaper) compressed gases, such as liquid N2 which could be fogged at low pressure over the front of the intercooler and be VERY cold.
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Old 05-03-2002, 06:23 PM   #8
kyllc2
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nice idea man. keep us posted on the progress. maybe give a list of what's needed to make our own. i'm sure there's nothin to it. thanks
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Old 05-03-2002, 07:10 PM   #9
zaxrex
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Like you said, you are going to need a lot of gass. The temp won't start dropping untill you start letting the gas out and get the pressure change. The aluminum in the intercooler will thake the thermal expansion shock, but just watch out for plastic/rubber parts(crack!).

You might also want to add a small water line or two near the nozzel. The venturi effect and all that high velicity air will suck the water up, then attomize it, make frozen mist. With the higher latent heat capacity of ice/water, you will get a higher efficiency heat transfer.


Rock on
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Old 05-03-2002, 07:25 PM   #10
kyllc2
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awesome idea w/ the water. this is gonna be interesting. way to think. hehe
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Old 05-03-2002, 10:35 PM   #11
STEALTH-WRX
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Default cost

the total cost of this if you were to go and buy the parts are as follows:

smc valves (2) $60
co2 bottle $45 at advanced gas in huntington beach
air line/fittings $20
regulator $40

i hope it works good.
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Old 05-03-2002, 10:38 PM   #12
jmott
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Default Re: cost

Quote:
Originally posted by STEALTH-WRX
the total cost of this if you were to go and buy the parts are as follows:

smc valves (2) $60
co2 bottle $45 at advanced gas in huntington beach
air line/fittings $20
regulator $40

i hope it works good.
"I hope it works WELL"


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Old 05-03-2002, 11:10 PM   #13
Sordid Philosopher
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Talking my silly 2 cents

I wouldn't waste the spray to the radiator, I'd just do the intercooler.

I think it would be much more productive to inject the CO2 into the intercooler - I have been wanting to do this, but I don't know how to build/buy or what to look for in an injector into the intercooler.

I like your resources - I may look into it here.

Good Luck
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Old 05-03-2002, 11:41 PM   #14
Somber
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be careful of thermal shock to the components... be careful to keep the spray focused on the IC alone and spread as evenly as possible...
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