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Old 03-02-2010, 01:04 PM   #26
BMWidmer
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I just read your article and i am trying to decide whether or not i need a full blown track pad for HPDE's. I will be running on Kumho XS which are fairly grippy for a street tire which i am sure you are aware of just wanted to give some detail. Am i better off switching pads for events using a HT-10 or running something similar to the hawk blue 9012. I am a novice driver. Also i have heard of people only running a serious brake pad compound for the front and a less aggressive pad for the rear, what is the logic behind this? the only one i see is cost effectiveness? Any detrimental effects with driving?


Can anybody help me narrow down choices, with their own experience?

Information on car: 2000 2.5rs weighting in at 2750 roughly

2006 wrx motor with boltons going to be around the 300 whp range

subaru 4pot/2pot brake setup

If more information is needed please let me know
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Old 03-26-2010, 01:14 AM   #27
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Default I should have read this BEFORE I bought the HP Plus Pads

They squeel like ****
I tried to live with it but my wife wouldn't. Sold tem after 100 miles and went back to stock pads on DBA 4000 slotted rotors, which do a great job
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Old 04-08-2010, 10:41 AM   #28
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Anyone else have experience with HP+ pads? How are they if you are just putting them on for HPDE or 'lapping' days? Are there better Hawk pads for track performance?
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Old 04-08-2010, 05:59 PM   #29
delongedoug
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They should be good for HPDE/open track days. Of course there's better Hawk pads than something good enough. If you're going to go through the trouble of running 2 sets of pads for track and street, get something better for the track. HT-10 should do it for that level. Hawk is far from the only company out there, though.
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Old 04-08-2010, 10:24 PM   #30
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True Hawk isn't the only manufacturer but they seem to be good performance for price. I see people talking about Stoptech too.
Any links to good deals on pads?
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Old 04-09-2010, 01:17 AM   #31
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Tons of great info! Thanks very much! I fall into the Time attack- Auto cross catagory.. I drive a 07 STi. I would love some suggestions about brands and proven set ups of fellow racers.. Currently using Hawk hps HB180f.560 in the rear and hb453f.585 in the front. This set up works very well for daily driving and hard driving track days but seem to fade a bit after 2-3 laps.
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Old 04-09-2010, 01:59 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWidmer View Post
I just read your article and i am trying to decide whether or not i need a full blown track pad for HPDE's. I will be running on Kumho XS which are fairly grippy for a street tire which i am sure you are aware of just wanted to give some detail. Am i better off switching pads for events using a HT-10 or running something similar to the hawk blue 9012. I am a novice driver. Also i have heard of people only running a serious brake pad compound for the front and a less aggressive pad for the rear, what is the logic behind this? the only one i see is cost effectiveness? Any detrimental effects with driving?


Can anybody help me narrow down choices, with their own experience?

Information on car: 2000 2.5rs weighting in at 2750 roughly

2006 wrx motor with boltons going to be around the 300 whp range

subaru 4pot/2pot brake setup

If more information is needed please let me know
If you drive that car hard on track you are going to tear those brakes a new one.

By now we sell very few race pads that fit any of the small non-STi Subaru brakes. There simply is not enough mass to combat the heat effectively.

I have some dusty DTC60 front/HT-10 rears in here if you want to prove it to yourself.

It is what it is peeps - the cars are too fast and the brakes are too small. Physics win every time.
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Old 04-09-2010, 02:02 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010 WRX Limited View Post
Anyone else have experience with HP+ pads? How are they if you are just putting them on for HPDE or 'lapping' days? Are there better Hawk pads for track performance?
You are limited in what you can get for the rear - D1114 is a 'newish' shape.

Carbotech is your friend on this one - but do yourself a favor and consider your upgrades carefully - the front needs help pretty quick on track.
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Old 04-09-2010, 02:05 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delongedoug View Post
They should be good for HPDE/open track days.
They arent on the WRX. Its simply too much car for not enough brakes. I milked a set on the WRX once and swore Id never do it again.

Now I cant seem to keep them warmed up enough in the Miata.
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Old 04-09-2010, 02:28 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericsson View Post
It sured helped me! After reading some info, I've decided to try changing my brake pads to ceramic to help the noise issue in my STI. Thanks!
What was it Ben Stiller said about milking a cat?

Those squealing a** gold things haunt me nightly.
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Old 04-21-2010, 08:37 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STiwayne View Post
Tons of great info! Thanks very much! I fall into the Time attack- Auto cross catagory.. I drive a 07 STi. I would love some suggestions about brands and proven set ups of fellow racers.. Currently using Hawk hps HB180f.560 in the rear and hb453f.585 in the front. This set up works very well for daily driving and hard driving track days but seem to fade a bit after 2-3 laps.
Hawk HPS pads are a street-only pad. They aren't meant for track use and putting them on the track could lead to some serious issues. They can't handle the heat developed on a race track and you will destroy the pad. The pad material will actually separate from the backing plate and you'll have no brakes at all.


For track use you should really use a track pad. If you can force yourself to NOT run full-bore at the race track you can get more of a dual-duty auto-x/track pad like the Hawk HP+, Carbotech AX6, or Ferodo DS2500. If you are really hardcore about track days then your best option is to have two separate sets of pads for track and street use. Keep your HPS for the street and buy the Hawk HT-10 or Carbotech XP10 for track use.
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Old 05-11-2010, 03:59 AM   #37
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Default EBC yellowstuff vs. Hawk HPS

I have a '07 WRX wagon with EBC yellowstuffs all around. I've been using them for about 10,000 miles and about a season and a half of auto-x. Has anyone had experience with them vs. the Hawk HPS pads and if so was there a difference? They seem fairly similar performance-wise. I don't care about dust or noise unless it's insane. Along those lines I have some track days waiting in the wings. Would it be better to get some Hawk HP Plus pads for that to help slow the hefty wagon? And if that's the case, can you safely use the HP Plus pads on the street day in and day out? I know it's probably best to have 2 sets of pads but I'm trying to save some money if possible.
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Old 05-16-2010, 12:57 AM   #38
RallyColorado
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Amazing write up, thanks for putting the time in to write that! I really appreciate hearing the options from someone who isn't trying to sell one to me.
.
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Old 05-20-2010, 04:55 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanvaldez View Post
I have a '07 WRX wagon with EBC yellowstuffs all around. I've been using them for about 10,000 miles and about a season and a half of auto-x. Has anyone had experience with them vs. the Hawk HPS pads and if so was there a difference? They seem fairly similar performance-wise. I don't care about dust or noise unless it's insane. Along those lines I have some track days waiting in the wings. Would it be better to get some Hawk HP Plus pads for that to help slow the hefty wagon? And if that's the case, can you safely use the HP Plus pads on the street day in and day out? I know it's probably best to have 2 sets of pads but I'm trying to save some money if possible.
I haven't played with the EBC yellows, but I have used the Hawk HPS. IMO they are crap for anything more than daily driving, and even then they are questionable.

Something like the Hawk HP+ or Carbotech AX6 is going to be a much better pad if you intend to do track days. Its not going to provide the same level of performance as a track pad (friction coefficient and heat resistance), but its going to be a lot better than a street oriented pad. Either one of them would be acceptable for street use, though you'll want to pay attention to the cold grip as temperatures start to drop in the winter. When cold they won't have the same initial bite and it will likely take a little longer to stop.

How are your current brake pads? Decent life left or nearing the end? I know several people who daily drive with full-bore track pads during the summer. They squeal more than a city transit bus, but they provide sufficient braking for the daily commute. If you don't mind the noise and the dust you could do the same and save your current pads for winter use when the track pads aren't going to function.
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Old 05-25-2010, 04:24 AM   #40
Wanvaldez
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Hey thanks for the response and the good info. My current pads have a decent amount of life left so I think I'll try the HP+ pads as summer is approaching now anyways. Thanks again
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Old 06-06-2010, 09:27 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J Ritt View Post
Hi Guys,
I wanted to post a link to an article I recently wrote about how to choose street and track brake pads. I know this has always been a popular topic on this forum, and one that creates a lot of confusion.

This is NOT an article promoting a specific brand or brands. It is intended to lay out the thought processes and variables that go into choosing a pad for any street or track condition.

As a representative for some of the top brake manufacturers in the aftermarket for the past 7 years, I’ve had the chance to address this topic in countless conversations with customers online, over the phone, or in person. Until now though, I’ve never had the time to pull my thoughts together and present them in a cohesive manner.

My hope is that this article will prevent some of the repetitive “what are the best brake pads?” questions we’ve all seen a million times. With a fundamental understanding of this topic in hand, we can hopefully elevate future conversations on this topic to a higher, more productive level.

I’d post the article here in its entirety, but it would probably take me 20 posts!

Thanks and enjoy: CLICK HERE TO READ THE ARTICLE
Very informative article. Thanks a bunch. I know that you said that it wasn't promoting any particular brand name but I was wondering if anyone can help out with picking out some brake pads.

I have an 06 WRX STI and I have the original brake pads on the car but they are at the end of their life and need to be replaced but I do not want to spend the 500 dollars that it will cost to get the OEM pads, especially if they are not going to perform as well as some aftermarket brake pads. As of right now I don't take my ride to the track at all as I never have any time so I am really just looking for pads that are good for road driving and the occasional messing around. After reading the article I am not sure which material to go with. I would like good performance but I also don't want to have to clean up a lot of brake dust and I don't want them to be overly noisy. Any suggestions? I would like to stay in the range of no more than $150 for the front and around $100 for the back if possible.
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Old 06-09-2010, 12:40 PM   #42
TheHoboMan
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Great article, tons of useful information.
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Old 06-10-2010, 10:09 AM   #43
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thanks for the write up, i just printed and taped it up in the garage next to the toolbox and Manifesto!
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Old 08-12-2010, 03:15 PM   #44
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What category are the OEM brakes on a 2007 STI? Is it worth replacing with OEM or are aftermarkets still very good even at less than half price? (I'm quoted by my dealer $1450 for OEM, $700 for aftermarket, though they didn't say which aftermarket models...)
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Old 08-12-2010, 05:21 PM   #45
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$1450 for PADS??? Sweet Christ, you can buy the HPS pads from KNSBrakes for just a tick over $200. You can buy top o' the line race pads for an STI for well south of $700 too.

Protip: Dont go to the dealer, the pads are super easy to install yourself.
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Old 08-13-2010, 11:34 AM   #46
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Sorry, they want to do rotors and everything, not just pads. Some friends think I'd be OK with just pads and turn the rotors this time though. I'm just trying to find out if OEM is worth the money or not compared to aftermarket pads&rotors
Quote:
Originally Posted by cucamelsmd15 View Post
$1450 for PADS??? Sweet Christ, you can buy the HPS pads from KNSBrakes for just a tick over $200. You can buy top o' the line race pads for an STI for well south of $700 too.

Protip: Dont go to the dealer, the pads are super easy to install yourself.
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Old 08-13-2010, 05:22 PM   #47
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Oh, well even so, if you wanted to do rotors at the same time, Ken has rotors with the Stoptech pads for just over $400 and with the HPS pads for a few bucks more. If you arent tracking the car, one of those would be a safe bet.

Theres no way in hell I would pay $700 for either of those. I assume part of that is labor, but still, its a piece o' cake to swap out yourself.
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Old 08-13-2010, 05:55 PM   #48
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Damn...I need to start hiring you guys! Yeah man, that is way too high of a price. I bet they are charging to turn your rotors as well. Please do not pay that much...You can call me and i will walk you through your brake job step by step for a good I trader rating.
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Old 08-13-2010, 07:27 PM   #49
cucamelsmd15
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Speaking of, I need to swing by and get the pads for the Legacy. Im fairly sure I cant bend the squealers back too much more.
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Old 08-29-2010, 01:43 PM   #50
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that was not only a super informative article, but a fantastic read! thanks so much for taking the time to educate, it certainly has given me some great insight.
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