Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Monday September 1, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Built Motor Discussion

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-25-2013, 01:51 AM   #1
kamikami
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 340001
Join Date: Dec 2012
Default Engine Full Of Fuel I.e In Sump And Spark Plugs

Hey all,


I am looking for advice. EJ20 rebuilt just got final tune @ 200kw after the mechanic installed the 1000cc injector just before we left we noticed coolant hose between the oil cooler and water pump had a pin hole leak.i drove home quickly the temperature was fine the whole time.

I fixed it over the long weekend didn't drive the car for 3 days after the tune, did a coolant flush, took it around the block and as soon as it warmed up the temperature skyrocketed to high.. so I turned the car off immediately and pulled over. the thermo fan was going like crazy and I think it drained the battery at the same time.


I assume there was fuel in the motor during this time hence the over heating..

so anyways the motor wouldn't turn over and I lose all power.


so ya it wasn't cranking over until i remove all the fuel etc..A lot of fuel came of the car, two oil drays full to the top + whatever fell out of the spark plug holes another litre or so.

Now it doesn't start, I will be checking fuel,spark,compression shortly, it seems like the motor doesn't have any compression right now.


What we think is all the fuel has removed all lubrication from inside the piston ring, thus no compression.


So my question is, is it ok to put a little bit of oil in the cylinders and then try and start the car?

also, the car is GC8 and the thermo is still going now every time ign is turned on? - Doesn't anyone know what that is about??

Cheers!



David
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
kamikami is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2013, 04:30 PM   #2
Paul
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 56203
Join Date: Feb 2004
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: south nj
Vehicle:
00 RSTI Coupe
Twin Scroll 2.5XTR EJ207

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kamikami View Post

I assume there was fuel in the motor during this time hence the over heating..
this has me confused.

If its over heating 99.9999999% of time is COOLANT related not fuel. I bet theres still air in the coolant system.
Paul is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2013, 04:36 PM   #3
the suicidal eggroll
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 51961
Join Date: Jan 2004
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Broomfield, CO
Vehicle:
2005 STi
2012 WRX

Default

I'm missing the apparent implied connection between overheating and the engine being hydrolocked with fuel...

Hydrolocking with fuel generally means a stuck injector or a torn injector o-ring (if these are side feed injectors). This has absolutely nothing to do with coolant levels or overheating.
the suicidal eggroll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2013, 05:24 PM   #4
guroove
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 129833
Join Date: Oct 2006
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Buffalo, NY
Vehicle:
2005 Forester XT
Obsidian Black Pearl

Default

You killed it. You have no compression, probably because you warped the block and heads, and now the coolant has seeped into the cylinders and possibly cracked the block. Replace motor and start over.
guroove is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2013, 01:07 AM   #5
norexyet
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 39149
Join Date: Jun 2003
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Wild Rides Race Cars
Vehicle:
11 elantra
yea i said elantra

Default

I'm lost. How did the cylinders fill with fuel? I don't see how a pin hole would cause the car to overheat if you said you drove it right home and then repaired the line to the oil cooler and did a coolant flush. Maybe you didn't get all the air out when you bled the coolant after the fix.
norexyet is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2013, 05:40 AM   #6
ripman
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 305707
Join Date: Jan 2012
Chapter/Region: International
Location: AUS
Vehicle:
1999 WRX
WRC Blue

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by the suicidal eggroll View Post
I'm missing the apparent implied connection between overheating and the engine being hydrolocked with fuel...

Hydrolocking with fuel generally means a stuck injector or a torn injector o-ring (if these are side feed injectors). This has absolutely nothing to do with coolant levels or overheating.
Me too. may be two separate issues but the thing with all of the cylinders being full of fuel rath than one is a bit of an enigma and I'll be interested to hear the prognosis.
ripman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2013, 08:19 AM   #7
kamikami
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 340001
Join Date: Dec 2012
Default

Yes its all very confusing and i probably left a few details out., sorry guys.

The overheating might due to the air in the system, the was the reason i drove the car in the first place, because i followed the service manual when i filled the coolant back up, and i had only put a 1~2litres in the motor..

What we do know is the timing belt tensioner needs replacing and the timing jumped, skipping some teeth,now the timing is out.

Initially fixed the cam timing, got the car to start, it didn't really idle, it wasn't noisy and there were no unexpected engine noises, but felt like it was running on 3 cylinders.

compression test results which one cylinder having no compression. The other side is down a little compared to spec also. 110/120/150 I assume 150/160 is the normal?

MY car is a 2.1 stroker with jun heads and cams.

So the fuel in the engine is still kind of a mystery, one theory is after the valves failed fuel went in the motor, this is the most unlikely of the two, we assume that would need power for the injector to work, to fill up the motor.

Other theory is the tensioner is the reason why, after the timing slipped, the motor drop the valve, losing compression,overheating - but that doesn't explain the fuel in the motor exactly..

with the above said,we suspect the valves the motor comes out tomorrow.

Thanks for you time.
kamikami is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2013, 08:20 AM   #8
kamikami
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 340001
Join Date: Dec 2012
Default

p.s there was a torn o-ring initially. so that could in combination with the faulty timing belt tensioner made it go bang..
kamikami is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2013, 08:21 AM   #9
kamikami
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 340001
Join Date: Dec 2012
Default

the torn o-ring happened we suspect on installation 3 days earlier.
kamikami is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2013, 09:36 AM   #10
norexyet
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 39149
Join Date: Jun 2003
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Wild Rides Race Cars
Vehicle:
11 elantra
yea i said elantra

Default

Isn't two liters like half a gallon? That's an issue if you only put two liters in an empty coolant system. You should have needed around two gallons. Sounds like this build went to crap from the start. Was the tensioner new?
norexyet is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2013, 10:52 AM   #11
the suicidal eggroll
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 51961
Join Date: Jan 2004
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Broomfield, CO
Vehicle:
2005 STi
2012 WRX

Default

Let me get this straight...

The car had a coolant leak
Bad timing belt tensioner
Torn injector o-ring
Was overheating - and running almost no coolant

And you knew all of this ahead of time, and drove it anyway?
the suicidal eggroll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2013, 10:55 AM   #12
kamikami
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 340001
Join Date: Dec 2012
Default

The coolant leak was known, it was driven straight home and replaced. the car overheated on a test drive after doing the coolant flush.

Torn o-ring was found after we checked the spark plugs where covered in fuel and it came gushing out of the cylinders.

Timing belt tension was realized today when we did the timing.
kamikami is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2013, 11:03 AM   #13
the suicidal eggroll
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 51961
Join Date: Jan 2004
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Broomfield, CO
Vehicle:
2005 STi
2012 WRX

Default

Ok good, just checking

To me it sounds like the overheating is separate from everything else, and the torn injector o-ring is the real culprit - assuming you're running side feed injectors. With side feed, a torn lower o-ring will cause the rails to dump fuel straight into the manifold, bypassing the injector itself (I've known two people that have had this happen). This caused the engine to hydrolock with fuel, which subsequently bent a rod and caused the low compression. The low compression could also be caused by a bent valve from the jumped timing, but you won't know until you open it up.
the suicidal eggroll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2013, 11:07 AM   #14
kamikami
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 340001
Join Date: Dec 2012
Default

the engine was running? Never hydrolocked, just about to overheat so turned it off lol

Really strange and agree potential two separate issues.

p.s the tensions itself wasn't replaced only the bearing doh..
kamikami is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2013, 11:10 AM   #15
norexyet
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 39149
Join Date: Jun 2003
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Wild Rides Race Cars
Vehicle:
11 elantra
yea i said elantra

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by the suicidal eggroll View Post
Ok good, just checking

To me it sounds like the overheating is separate from everything else, and the torn injector o-ring is the real culprit - assuming you're running side feed injectors. With side feed, a torn lower o-ring will cause the rails to dump fuel straight into the manifold, bypassing the injector itself (I've known two people that have had this happen). This caused the engine to hydrolock with fuel, which subsequently bent a rod and caused the low compression. The low compression could also be caused by a bent valve from the jumped timing, but you won't know until you open it up.
I would think since he's overseas (can't see location) through the nasioc app but you'd think the car has top feed injectors?
norexyet is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2013, 11:18 AM   #16
kamikami
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 340001
Join Date: Dec 2012
Default

p.s is sidefeed sorry EJ20K
kamikami is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2013, 11:23 AM   #17
naultlogic
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 366933
Join Date: Aug 2013
Default

fuel pressure reg. has that been checked?
naultlogic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2013, 11:37 AM   #18
naultlogic
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 366933
Join Date: Aug 2013
Default

fuel pressure reg. has that been checked?
naultlogic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2013, 12:19 PM   #19
kamikami
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 340001
Join Date: Dec 2012
Default

no it hasn't, its the oem one, i do have a sard one that i could fit, but i havent heard of people running aftermarket regulators?
kamikami is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:02 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.