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Old 09-24-2009, 10:27 AM   #1
mla163
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Default AutoX people...let's say I want to build an ST* car

ST, STS, STX, STU, or STR.

I think keeping it in a street tire class would keep costs down and make it practical as a second car.

And let's say it should be competitive regionally (maybe make an appearance at nats, but maybe not win)

And it should be reasonable in cost

And it can't be a civic, crx, or miata

Discuss...
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Old 09-24-2009, 10:40 AM   #2
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Wrong forum.

STX: BMW 328is, 330i, RX8. I think an Integra Type R could do very well, also.

STU: STi/EVO.

STR: S2000.

ST: J-Rho 240sx (His build is somewhere online), 1991 BMW 318is.

Any of these pique your curiosity?
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Old 09-24-2009, 10:50 AM   #3
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Wrong forum.
MAIC has some pretty experienced and knowledgeble autocrossers. I'm posting here to make MAIC less boring.
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Old 09-24-2009, 10:52 AM   #4
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It was originally in the classifieds .

Why opposition to the '88 CRX/'89 Civic/1.6 Miata camp?
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Old 09-24-2009, 10:52 AM   #5
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j-rho STS (now ST) 240SX build thread:
http://www.freshalloy.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=139581

That would be even better in STX now (real diff, 265's). IIRC he said that he would have started with a coupe (weight, stiffness) if he could do it again.

E36 for STX would also be reasonably priced and fun and definitely competitive.

ST is pretty much out (now that the Civics can run 225s) as is STS (no CRXs no Miatas). STU is going to be too expensive.

I think those are your best bets for a fun car. Of course there is always the "2.0L WRX" option.
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Old 09-24-2009, 10:54 AM   #6
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Scratch my recommendation of the ITR. I keep forgetting those get stolen up here.

I'd REALLY like to develop an RX-8 for STX...everything in me tells me it's the car to have...

John, since I assume you saw it, how "full-tilt" was Isley's build?
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Old 09-24-2009, 10:57 AM   #7
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Could an MR2 be competitive?
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Old 09-24-2009, 10:58 AM   #8
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Where? In E-Stock, sure . I can't see it being competitive elsewhere. Probably not STR.
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Old 09-24-2009, 11:06 AM   #9
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E36 for STX would also be reasonably priced and fun and definitely competitive.
sssssssssssssssssh

E36s are terrible terrible cars. stay far far away from them....


(at least until i find/buy mine. )
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Old 09-24-2009, 11:07 AM   #10
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Nothing against Miatas or civics, I just want something different.

In my mind, a 2.0L wrx is leading the pack but I may lack imagination.

What about an RS?
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Old 09-24-2009, 11:16 AM   #11
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I think Keefe Lee ran one locally a while back.

EDIT: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1470565
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Old 09-24-2009, 11:17 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedTheory View Post
John, since I assume you saw it, how "full-tilt" was Isley's build?
Dunno, didn't check it out. But he has Motons.
http://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php?...&postcount=353

Quote:
Originally Posted by mla163 View Post
Could an MR2 be competitive?
In STS? Ask Slava. When Ian has driven it, he hasn't been far off his CRX times, maybe a half second or a little more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mla163 View Post
What about an RS?
I think it's dead in ST. Then again we don't seem to have any 89 Civics in the DC region.
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Old 09-24-2009, 11:18 AM   #13
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RS = Fail in ST If you look at national results *usually* you will see that anything not Honda w/ double wishbones is very very very far down the list. Last year the first car not falling into the above category was in 27th place.

NC Miata for STR?
240Z for STR?

If your goal is to keep costs down and make it a practical 2nd car... stock class is the way to go. Although note that a Stock class car is likely to be the least competitive in CDC.
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Old 09-24-2009, 11:23 AM   #14
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A 240Z is an intriguing pick. They are damn cool looking cars, pretty light...that's really all I know about them. I don't know if they could compete with an S2K in STR.

Stock class is...meh. Changing tires in a parking lot in august makes baby jebus cry.
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Old 09-24-2009, 11:24 AM   #15
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How is going with a 2.0L WRX or an RS "different"? You drive a 2.5L WRX now.

Go Civic. I'll even help you build it!
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Old 09-24-2009, 11:32 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ButtDyno View Post
I think it's dead in ST. Then again we don't seem to have any 89 Civics in the DC region.

I know a couple of current ST guys are working on a EF civic for next year. Don't know how competive it will be though.
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Old 09-24-2009, 11:33 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProDarwin View Post
If your goal is to keep costs down and make it a practical 2nd car... stock class is the way to go.
While the mod list might be smaller, stock class may not be the most practical or the greatest value for something street driven. Penske/Moton/Koni Race custom-valve=$$$. Also, there's the whole r-comp thing, requiring a spare set of street wheels/tires, as opposed to the old 'run what ya brung' street touring options.

I've had this debate with myself many times over, and I keep returning to the idea of street tire classes, due to versatility and having a solid street setup without changing suspension settings.
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Old 09-24-2009, 11:34 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrSeuss View Post
How is going with a 2.0L WRX or an RS "different"? You drive a 2.5L WRX now.

Go Civic. I'll even help you build it!
It would probably be a different color
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Old 09-24-2009, 11:34 AM   #19
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An ES MR2 is INSANELY cheap to run.
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Old 09-24-2009, 11:49 AM   #20
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Whats your budget, including cost of car, tires, wheels, shocks, etc...
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Old 09-24-2009, 11:59 AM   #21
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Whats your budget, including cost of car, tires, wheels, shocks, etc...
Let's say 15K.
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Old 09-24-2009, 12:08 PM   #22
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I can't see being competitive in any ST* class with that budget. MAYBE ST in a 1991 318is (assuming your no Honda/Miata rule).

My '93 MR2 in ES suggestion still reigns supreme. Budget $2K a year + on tires. Car + prep should be under $9K.
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Old 09-24-2009, 12:18 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by em99sport View Post
While the mod list might be smaller, stock class may not be the most practical or the greatest value for something street driven. Penske/Moton/Koni Race custom-valve=$$$. Also, there's the whole r-comp thing, requiring a spare set of street wheels/tires, as opposed to the old 'run what ya brung' street touring options.
Consider that:

A) An ST car will still require Penske/Moton/Koni/whatever suspension. Its still going to cost $$$. In fact with springs, bushings, swaybars, etc it will cost more money.

B) In many sizes ST tires are not much cheaper than R comps.

I think Mark is talking about building a competitive ST* car. What he has now falls into 'run what ya brung'.

Mark, FWIW 2nd Gen MR2s are stupid fun to drive on R comps. Even w/o powersteering fluid.
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Old 09-24-2009, 01:03 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedTheory View Post
John, since I assume you saw it, how "full-tilt" was Isley's build?
His car was mostly built to the rules. Brakes, seats, suspension, tuning, and exhaust. At least that is what I saw from the outside.

Rob

Last edited by STirish; 09-24-2009 at 01:09 PM.
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Old 09-24-2009, 01:12 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedTheory View Post
I'd REALLY like to develop an RX-8 for STX...everything in me tells me it's the car to have...

John, since I assume you saw it, how "full-tilt" was Isley's build?
+1 I'll be developing mine for the class over the next two years...kicking Willemin's butt along the way to keep me motivated.

My build won't be "full tilt" as the car will still be my daily driver, but I plan on doing the major stuff (diff, full exhaust, tune, double adjustable coilovers, light-weight wheels, 265 tires, etc). I hope to have the funds to get this all done by the start of the 2011 season, so that I can run some NT's and see where I stack up at Nats. 2010 will be a quiet and laid back season for me...

Isley will have a full write-up about his STX car in a SportsCar issue that'll be out later this year. From my understanding it was not fully developed and put together in just a few months. I also think it was mentioned on another forum that he ran the stock tochigi-fuji lsd (similar to a torsen). I'm sure he would have picked up time with a good aftermarket lsd like the OS Giken. Either way, Isley's driving has been consistent and fast for several years now, and his performance this year is a good indication that an RX-8 could do very well in the class.
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