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Old 07-12-2011, 07:40 PM   #51
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i'll take any singer 911 regardless of color. if the update makes it more fun to drive and more reliable, even better!
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Old 07-12-2011, 09:28 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanley View Post
Right - that's exactly what these old Porsche's were like...slow acceleration and boat-like handling. Have you ever driven one?
Where in my statement did I say that I was talking about a Porsche? Go ahead and point it out- I'll be waiting.
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Old 07-12-2011, 09:35 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
OK.

I'll admit some correction, despite the fact that I never claimed they weren't period correct, just that I thought they were a bit bright, and I liked the white better, for the aesthetic of a classic car.

I still think the orange and green are pretty bright, though, even if they are period-correct.

When I think of bright colored porsches... Gaurds Red appeals to me more.

And I usually think of 60's era colors, other than red, being a bit mellower, even though obviously bright green and bright orange are period correct, also. As is Mexico Blue, which I am not a big fan of.

They bright orange, or bright green seem less common to 60s and 70s 911s than milder colors like these, other than the Guards Red, and black.


It seems like the Singer, as well as the green example you posted, are using modern adaptations of the colors... they seem WAY color-saturated, when I think of original paint colors being a bit less saturated, more like this Leaf Green example.


One of those things where I say, colors like that are nice to see, but I don't know that they would be my choice to own.

I would go Silver with red interior, or Guards Red with black interior... or Ossi Blue with grey-trimmed interior.

No harm no foul. The "safety" or Signal colors (orange, yellow, green) were very bright but they photograph very differently under different lighting.

For a good idea of the full range of early 911 colors, check out http://www.elferhelfer.de/farben.htm and click on the various years. Someone's trying to duplicate that at http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...e-Color-Thread (that Leaf Green car you linked to is cited as an example).

Leaf Green is gorgeous and I agree with you in that I tend to favor the less bright colors on early cars. When I was searching for my car I put color aside and looked for the best example I could afford. I passed on a car that was originally Slate Gray over red but had been repainted navy blue; it'd have been stunning had it been repainted in its original color but that wasn't in my initial budget. I was ready to pull the trigger on a Tangerine (a/k/a Blutorange) car but it got sold out from under me. I came very close to buying a Signal Orange car and I know I'd have had a tough time living with it. The car that finally found me and which I bought is in the very sedate - and very common - Irish Green.



edit: I know the guy on the right in the John Glynn picture.


He recently sold the Ossi Blue car to someone local and is focusing on the black RS clone. I went on a drive following him in the latter and couldn't keep up with him.

Last edited by lark6; 07-12-2011 at 10:14 PM.
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Old 07-12-2011, 10:09 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryguy32789 View Post
Where in my statement did I say that I was talking about a Porsche? Go ahead and point it out- I'll be waiting.
Thread title:
Old Porsches made new again -- faster, more civilized

I don't really car if you like your old cars with new stuff, I am simply giving my opinion that old stuff should be enjoyed for what it is. I'm not going to stop you from spending your money however you want. In fact, one of the coolest projects I've ever seen with my own eyes was a '75 Porsche 914 with a Subaru 2.2 turbo dropped in it. Not my thing, but a fun project and it saved the old VAG from the crusher.
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Old 07-12-2011, 10:20 PM   #55
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I'd much rather take that 190k-360k and buy a new turbo s
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Old 07-12-2011, 10:41 PM   #56
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overpriced resto job. I wonder if this company is actually profitable.
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Old 07-12-2011, 10:56 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanley View Post
Thread title:
Old Porsches made new again -- faster, more civilized

I don't really car if you like your old cars with new stuff, I am simply giving my opinion that old stuff should be enjoyed for what it is. I'm not going to stop you from spending your money however you want. In fact, one of the coolest projects I've ever seen with my own eyes was a '75 Porsche 914 with a Subaru 2.2 turbo dropped in it. Not my thing, but a fun project and it saved the old VAG from the crusher.
that doesn't really imply the older cars were slow and bad at handling.

The truth is, it IS faster than the old car because there's more power and more civilized could just mean a more forgiving suspension set up or new amenities.
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Old 07-13-2011, 12:09 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by arghx7 View Post
overpriced resto job. I wonder if this company is actually profitable.
The fit and finish,
the new carbon fiber replacement panels,
new lighting,
new suspension through-out.
modern rolling stock on much wider wheels
fabricated and hand-finished fender flares over said wider wheels.
Fabricated custom fit roll structure.
Fully restored and custom finished interior.
Fabricated details like the fuel and oil caps through the body.
Every nut and bolt polished or finished.
A fully built/refurbished driveline from the clutch to the wheel studs.
And a 425hp built up air-cooled engine.

And all the artisan labor from start to finish.

It is a lot of money to be sure... but I am not sure if over-priced is necessarily true.

The old saying goes, it's worth what someone will pay for it.

And if you can do all that, do it, and make your money from it, by all means!

I wish I could.

Last edited by HipToBeSquare; 07-13-2011 at 12:20 AM.
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Old 07-13-2011, 12:12 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arghx7 View Post
overpriced resto job. I wonder if this company is actually profitable.
the company is profitable because of their other buisness. The singer cars are not simply restomod or cherry picking of different year parts. The attention to detail and level of engineering is absolutely equisite. Actually to the point where it is silly. I dont think it was really neccasary to reingineer the mirrors and most of the other stuff they did. Did you miss the part about recreating the body in carbon fiber?

Anyways an rs/rsr tribute car is number one on my list for when I win the lottery. The recipe can be quite simple: Backdate and flair an SC or mid year 911 and swap in a 993/964 3.6 l. It costs the better part of 100k to make a nice tibute for yourself (and thousands of hours of work of course).
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Old 07-13-2011, 12:15 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by Stanley View Post
To each his own, but I've always thought the only reason to have an old car was because it's old. If you want a new car, you should buy a new one.
Eh, I understand the appeal. I want an old 930 911 Turbo but am quite sure it would be disappointing compared to my Evo. Technology has just progressed so much.
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Old 07-13-2011, 12:29 AM   #61
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the reason to have an old car is because they look cool
Truth.

I'd kill for a '71 HEMI 'Cuda, 69 Corvette Stingray, Porsche 550, GT40 Mk IV, Miura, Stratos, etc.. Couldn't give a **** if they got horrible mileage and didn't have the best amenities.

But yeah, a Singer 911 would be nice!
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Old 07-13-2011, 12:34 AM   #62
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@delongdoug,

You might be surprised how much the VISCERAL feedback appeals to you, despite the lack of modern technology. Not the same experience.

And how much more of a rush it is when there isn't a technological net to fall back on. A 930 Turbo is definitely a sports car without a net.

I've not driven one of those particularly, but the reports of snap oversteer are legendary, as is the 911's reputation for feedback before that point.

By all measures, classic sports cars should be inferior, yet the experience is not something to dismiss.

The stats barely scratch the surface, compared to the qualitative aspects of driving a classic sports car.

This singer update of a classic would seem to turn it up to 11, so to speak, by actually applying modern grade quantitative capabilities with the classic experience and lack of technological "filtering" of the feedback.
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Old 07-13-2011, 12:44 AM   #63
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Hey, HipToBeSquare, here's a related AWD H6 coupe option for you:
http://www.germanspeedshop.com/914-subaru.html
Porsche 914 w/your choice of Subie engines (including 3.0 or 3.6 H6) and Subie AWD can be incorporated (mentioned elsewhere on the site if you dig around). I like this idea quite a bit. I know it's not a new car, but...
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Old 07-13-2011, 01:02 AM   #64
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An EG33 914 sounds phenomenal. Maybe even with a turbocharger or two, built engine, Porsche Turbo gearbox, and a customized race-ready or otherwise custom body.


Or a Porsche 904 Carrera replica


BTW, I can only imagine in my lottery-winning dreams what a 904-6 replica built by Singer would be like. Fully bespoke interior, fully modernized suspension, brakes, and driveline, fabricated fender flares over those wide Fuchs, and 425 flat-6, down-draft-velocity-stacked, top-fan-air-cooled horsepower. Holy _____...


Anyway,
But I see nothing on that site about AWD, certainly not on a mid-engined 914. You might have convinced me if you had said something about a Subaru-swapped 911 Carrera 4, but I have thought about that... and it isn't directly simple.

If you use a Porsche drivetrain, it is still expensive, and has to be adapted to the Subaru engine.

If you use a Subaru drivetrain, you have to use the 5MT with 50/50 split. STI drivetrain would turn around to a front-bias, rather than STI's stock rear bias.

Plus, one would have to flip the ring gear in the transaxle, if possible, and also either come up with a mirror-image diff for the front, or use a Subaru rear diff in the front, but upside-down. I have wondered if anyone with a CNC machine has ever reverse-engineered a mirror-flipped R160 or R180 differential case, for front-axle usage, with the driveshaft input toward the center of the car.

And you'd have to choose a gear-set that is H6 compatible, rather than H4 Turbo high-RPM cruising top-gear.

All that in a rarer air-cooled-AWD 911 body built to accommodate the driveline. I have also wondered about flipping the Subaru symmetrical AWD system for an AWD Meyers Manxter... but the technical issues still present themselves.

Last edited by HipToBeSquare; 07-13-2011 at 01:21 AM.
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Old 07-13-2011, 03:02 AM   #65
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^ I read this on their home page, perhaps too quickly :
Quote:
"... 914 Subaru conversions have shown a lot of interest. We convert 914s with the flat 4 and the flat 6. We have running prototypes with the EG33 and the EJ25T. The EG33 conversion is equipped with a converted AWD Subaru gearbox."
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Old 07-13-2011, 10:24 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
@delongdoug,

You might be surprised how much the VISCERAL feedback appeals to you, despite the lack of modern technology. Not the same experience.

And how much more of a rush it is when there isn't a technological net to fall back on. A 930 Turbo is definitely a sports car without a net.

I've not driven one of those particularly, but the reports of snap oversteer are legendary, as is the 911's reputation for feedback before that point.

By all measures, classic sports cars should be inferior, yet the experience is not something to dismiss.

The stats barely scratch the surface, compared to the qualitative aspects of driving a classic sports car.

This singer update of a classic would seem to turn it up to 11, so to speak, by actually applying modern grade quantitative capabilities with the classic experience and lack of technological "filtering" of the feedback.
I have a stock 930, it will still run away from a stock evo. Not bod for a 27 year old car. The joy of an older porsche is how freaking well they are built. A modern car seems like its made from paper mache' in comparison. The handling is a bit tricky but that is largly exagerated by legend.


“Thank god there’s no 48-hour race anywhere in the world, because chances are nobody could beat Porsche in a 48 hour race. They’re probably the only cars in the world that would stand up for something like that.” – Carroll Shelby, quoted in Porsche advertising brochure, 1972
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Old 07-13-2011, 10:51 AM   #67
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I have a stock 930, it will still run away from a stock evo. Not bod for a 27 year old car. The joy of an older porsche is how freaking well they are built. A modern car seems like its made from paper mache' in comparison. The handling is a bit tricky but that is largly exagerated by legend.
They're a lot less complex than I'd feared, and tolerances are extremely tight by the standards of their time - heck even by today's standards. It's made some of the weekend wrench-turning projects a lot more pleasant.
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Old 07-13-2011, 10:58 AM   #68
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For me, the joy of an old car is that they drive old. Maybe faster, more reliable, a little tighter on the corners, but the feel should be the same. So a better version of the same feel.

Looking cool and being rare are secondary. And tertiary I guess. I have no experience with Porsches, but they always looked cool. My ideal 911 is a couple years newer than this one, but not too much.
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Old 07-13-2011, 12:50 PM   #69
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I see...

I wish my EG33 had a manual AWD Subaru gearbox.

But those Porsche/Subaru hybrids are interesting.

There is a guy on the SVX World network, who has an EG33-swapped 911, and it is amazing.
http://youtu.be/g4cVMmJKyLg
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Old 07-13-2011, 12:56 PM   #70
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For me, the joy of an old car is that they drive old. Maybe faster, more reliable, a little tighter on the corners, but the feel should be the same. So a better version of the same feel.

Looking cool and being rare are secondary. And tertiary I guess. I have no experience with Porsches, but they always looked cool. My ideal 911 is a couple years newer than this one, but not too much.
Looking cool may not be a primary concern, but it sure doesn't hurt. It certainly is nice to look at them, so I'll post a few more pics.

There are some very cool 930s. (early cars had some chrome, but after the front signals/intakes below the headlights changed to be integrated into the bumpers, and some cars went to black trim.)


I think the Singers might actually be 930 bodies for some of the suspension and technical upgrades under the skin, and re-converted to look more like early 911s with the details like the early signals and grilles, bumpers, and such.

964s can be cool, too, with the painted bumper fascia covers and less exposed rubber trim than 930, and thus look a bit more modern than the earlier cars.


993s are also pretty slick, and are the most modern expression of the basic air-cooled 911 premise, and much more flush-fitted, with much more modern suspension underneath that was kept during the transition to the water-cooled 996 generation.



996/997, and soon to be 991, are familial, and laid out the same general way, but in many ways a whole different animal than the decades of development in the air-cooled cars.

Last edited by HipToBeSquare; 07-13-2011 at 01:07 PM.
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Old 07-15-2011, 05:23 PM   #71
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Apparently they've now got a partnership with Cosworth with the top spec getting 400 hp Love the white too!

http://www.topgear.com/uk/photos/sin...7-13?imageNo=0



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Old 07-15-2011, 05:24 PM   #72
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Old 07-15-2011, 06:09 PM   #73
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Old 07-15-2011, 06:45 PM   #74
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2 years lates still want, white is stunning. Excellence road tested the green one a bit ago. They were a bi disapointed it was mearly pretty damn fast instead of frighteningly fast, but otherwise impressed by the immaculate engineering.

Aschen will own an midyear 911 hotrod at some point in his life, allah willing
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Old 07-15-2011, 06:58 PM   #75
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actually you should have linked to this thread on the other one
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