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Old 09-27-2009, 05:13 PM   #1
JamesWilson2
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Question So I'm having an issue with the SCCA National office.....

I paid the $20 charge for the National Rulebook waiver back in March for the Dixie National Tour. Signed the form, they kept it on file. Later, I entered the Houston National Tour, told them I signed/paid at Dixie, all was good. Then at Solo Nationals, my name was NOT on their list for people who had paid. Of course, I did not buy a rulebook for 2009 because I am really stinkin' tired of buying a book every Tour or Pro, because they tend to walk off or get "permanently borrowed".

The National staff let me re-sign the form, and not pay until they researched the problem. Now they call me once a week saying I need to pay them for the Waiver (which I have already done, at Dixie). I got a letter on Friday saying the same thing, and that it will impede my membership if I do not "take care of it".

I have left multiple messages with both the Solo and Membership staff explaining what I wrote above, and leave my member # and my DAYTIME phone....they always call my house when I am not there, I tell them to call my cell phone. I can't call them during business hours because I myself am working 6:30am-~7pm most days.

What should I do? This is insanely irritating, and might actually prevent me from renewing my membership for 2010.....yes, over $20. I KNOW that I paid and signed the form, now it's a matter of principle because they are hounding me for it and really are not being nice about it.

Halp?

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Old 09-27-2009, 06:08 PM   #2
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I assume you have a record of the original payment - unless you paid cash. Get the info from your bank or credit card, call the Natl Office and tell them the details. That might help. Or send them the details in a letter if you can't call them.
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Old 09-27-2009, 06:49 PM   #3
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Who was working registration at the Dixie 'tour? There should have been some sort of receipt generated there.....

Jay
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Old 09-27-2009, 07:32 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm View Post
Who was working registration at the Dixie 'tour? There should have been some sort of receipt generated there.....

Jay

That would have been Dixie Region.....

James...I thought you borrowed my rulebook to save the $20....if memory serves me right?????

You, Neil, Dave, Rick, Phil and me used my Rule book...pretty sure....

Bill
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Old 09-27-2009, 07:50 PM   #5
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I thought I remembered that too, Bill, (rather I remember trying to do it but failing) but I remember giving the person at Reg cash because I didn't want to have to deal with trying to sneak through Reg at Houston or Nationals. They do not give you receipts for the Waiver, there is no detachable section for it. If I'm wrong, I'll pay for it, but I really distinctly remember paying for it at Reg at Dixie.
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Old 09-28-2009, 07:12 AM   #6
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Quote:
They do not give you receipts for the Waiver, there is no detachable section for it.
Then the onus is on them for them to prove you didn't pay. I don't know what the waiver looks like... is it one sheet per person or is it something that a whole bunch of people would sign (like the waiver at the gate)?

Tell them that you keep great records of everything. If you were given a receipt you would have had a copy to prove that you paid. Barring that there was no receipt given to you (because they don't exist), they should be taking your word for it.

This is something that should be fixed for next year. It's real easy to "lose" a piece of paper that is the only original. They should be giving people receipts. Then the onus is on the purchaser to show the receipt.

--kC
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Old 09-28-2009, 08:39 AM   #7
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I'm pretty sure you get the form right then and there, with the hard card in the mail later on. One can't simply go into the national timing trailer and take a form, fill it out, have it submitted and get a card without someone recognizing there was no payment attached to it.

I could be wrong though.......
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Old 09-28-2009, 10:17 AM   #8
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I bought the "Solo License" in Dixie - I didn't borrow Bill's book. Not to be a pedant, but I've never borrowed a rule book.

That said, I remember the waiver form in Dixie. It was a form to fill out. Shortly after returning home, I received a new membership card in the mail which included "Solo License" on the list of licenses I carry.

I also renewed my membership about a month later and the renewal paperwork that came in the mail included some additional forms. An Annual Waiver form that had to be notarized and a hard card purchase form. The hard card normally cost $10, but was free with a paid Solo License. I submitted my picture to the site online and received a hard card in response to that. My hard card had the colored stripe because I'd also filled out the annual waiver form.

James,
If you paid for the Solo License, you should have received a new SCCA membership card with Solo License listed on it. Even if you didn't opt for the annual waiver or hard card, they would have sent you a new paper card. If they didn't, you've never been on that list and never were recorded for getting it.

At the Houston Tour, even if you weren't on the list, you'd have probably gotten in. That was just after Dixie and everyone was confused about this stuff (and largely still are). They probably just let you in as if you'd shown a rule book, just like the relaxed nature of checking for rule books has always been. I'm not saying you didn't get the Solo License, but I am saying that getting into Houston doesn't mean that you did.
-N
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Old 09-28-2009, 09:52 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neilschelly View Post
I bought the "Solo License" in Dixie - I didn't borrow Bill's book. Not to be a pedant, but I've never borrowed a rule book.

That said, I remember the waiver form in Dixie. It was a form to fill out. Shortly after returning home, I received a new membership card in the mail which included "Solo License" on the list of licenses I carry.

I also renewed my membership about a month later and the renewal paperwork that came in the mail included some additional forms. An Annual Waiver form that had to be notarized and a hard card purchase form. The hard card normally cost $10, but was free with a paid Solo License. I submitted my picture to the site online and received a hard card in response to that. My hard card had the colored stripe because I'd also filled out the annual waiver form.

James,
If you paid for the Solo License, you should have received a new SCCA membership card with Solo License listed on it. Even if you didn't opt for the annual waiver or hard card, they would have sent you a new paper card. If they didn't, you've never been on that list and never were recorded for getting it.

At the Houston Tour, even if you weren't on the list, you'd have probably gotten in. That was just after Dixie and everyone was confused about this stuff (and largely still are). They probably just let you in as if you'd shown a rule book, just like the relaxed nature of checking for rule books has always been. I'm not saying you didn't get the Solo License, but I am saying that getting into Houston doesn't mean that you did.
-N
Hmmm.....good information. My membership expired during the weekend of the Houston Tour, and I paid cash for my membership renewal to Cindy (who just made me fill out a new member form, printed "Renewal" and my member #, and STAPLED the cash to the form). The card I got in the mail later did not have anything special on it....just "Crew" on the back.

I think I got hosed not asking for a receipt for the Waiver. Maybe time to choke on the $20?
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Old 09-28-2009, 10:03 PM   #10
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I got the updated membership card with the solo license but still have no hard card.
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Old 09-28-2009, 10:56 PM   #11
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I think the hard card is if you did the annual waiver (free with Solo License this year) but that was an additional form and I don't know if they were filling those out at the events.
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Old 09-29-2009, 06:31 AM   #12
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I think it's time to eat your $20, especially since it sounds like you're not terribly sure you paid it or not.

The hard card actually has nothing to do with the annual waiver either. There's only one place you can find it on their website (hidden in a PDF attached to the bottom of one of the newsletters in the Inside Line section of the AMS site) where it explains that the colored stripe on the hard card indicates that you've also signed the annual waiver. It's possible to have a hard card without an annual waiver.

It's also possible to have an annual waiver without a hard card. And it's possible to have a solo license without either. They are 3 completely different things. They just happened to give away free hard cards with the solo license purchase, assuming you filled out all the forms that came with your next renewal package. And if you're getting a hard card, it's nice to get the annual waiver too, since it's free and makes things easier.
-N
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Old 09-29-2009, 01:36 PM   #13
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I got my hard card at the Vegas convention, and we were told that it the rule book waiver and annual waiver were taken care of by the hard card. At Nationals in Lincoln, they said they didn't have my rule book waiver on file, and asked for the $20. About a week ago, they called asking for it, and then I just got a bill in the mail for it too.
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Old 09-29-2009, 01:45 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loworbitSI View Post
I got my hard card at the Vegas convention, and we were told that it the rule book waiver and annual waiver were taken care of by the hard card. At Nationals in Lincoln, they said they didn't have my rule book waiver on file, and asked for the $20. About a week ago, they called asking for it, and then I just got a bill in the mail for it too.
The hard card doesn't take care of anything except having a hard card. It needs a colored date stripe to count as an annual waiver and it needs a Solo Driver license in order to count for a rulebook exemption. Anyone can get a hard card for $10.

Yes, it's confusing. Yes, the SCCA folks don't even seem to know the story. Yes, they've told a lot of people the wrong stuff to try to "simplify" things.
-N

If it were me, I'd have made the annual waiver another "license" on the card, making that part clear. That's not supposed to be a point of debate or hidden meaning of a colored stripe. It would have made things a lot clearer. I'd also have made sure they called the rulebook exemption a Solo Driver License consistently, so that people would know that's the important part of it.

And they should have done something to publicize this at some point before Dixie and they should probably have issued a letter about only these programs to explain them once and for all, including procedures for using them at regional events. I'm still not sure - I've gotten mixed answers and their documentation doesn't say for sure - whether or not someone displaying a hard card with a colored stripe on their person needs a wristband. That seems like an important detail as far as insurance is concerned, but it appears to be left up to the person at the gate.
-N
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Old 09-29-2009, 09:14 PM   #15
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With us, you need a wristband, no matter what kinda card you have (unless it's a platinum card... )
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