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Old 02-04-2012, 12:36 PM   #776
Phatron
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The problem is that all 3 setups are so common that it's highly unlikely that it was the tune. If the tuner couldn't tune A vf car or a dw740 car.....then there would be 50,000 people in this thread and not 10.

You could have gotten a bad vf.....or just been having boost oscillations on that setup and gotten a bad injector from dw.

I see all these problems on a daily basis, so it's very possible IMO.

Did u ever leak check the setup on vf + stock Inj?
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Old 02-04-2012, 12:59 PM   #777
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
The problem is that all 3 setups are so common that it's highly unlikely that it was the tune. If the tuner couldn't tune A vf car or a dw740 car.....then there would be 50,000 people in this thread and not 10.

You could have gotten a bad vf.....or just been having boost oscillations on that setup and gotten a bad injector from dw.

I see all these problems on a daily basis, so it's very possible IMO.

Did u ever leak check the setup on vf + stock Inj?
The boost oscillations that I have now with the td04 and stock injectors is something new.
Its because I'm running an sti uppipe, ported exhaust manifolds, cobb catted dp, and 3 inch exhaust.
Pretty sure exhaust pressure is blowing the wastegate open.
I'm going to put the grimmspeed ecbs and tighten the wastegate arm to resolve.

As far as leak testing... sorry to say it but no.
I'm on my second stock inlet and I'm super picky about assembly.
I'd say its possible but I never saw any signs of it in logging and my attention to detail would pretty much negate the possibility of a leak.
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Old 02-04-2012, 01:07 PM   #778
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So you've had these problems over 3 different setups and never leak tested the car?
This stuff cracks me up because I deal with it every day and it's frustrating. So many people think going through the engine bay and checking clamp tightness constitutes a leak test.
And how can you say you never saw signs of a leak in your logs? What about the hesitation
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Old 02-05-2012, 10:29 PM   #779
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Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
So you've had these problems over 3 different setups and never leak tested the car?
This stuff cracks me up because I deal with it every day and it's frustrating. So many people think going through the engine bay and checking clamp tightness constitutes a leak test.
And how can you say you never saw signs of a leak in your logs? What about the hesitation
I've had 2 very different problems.
1 of which was common to 2 setups.
The other (boost oscillation) I just experienced this week due to the combination of parts currently on my car. I've never had that issue before.
It was fixed using the aforementioned reinstallation of a grimmspeed ecbs and adjustment of waste gate duty. As I suspected increase exhaust pressure was blowing the waste gate open.

If you were to check my posts again you'll find I make no mention of "going through the engine bay and checking clamp tightness" constituting a leak test.
I stated I was very confident there were no leaks as I am very detail oriented. Read into what you will but don't state it as if it was fact.

Ask your partner if he ever saw a sign of a leak in the logs throughout the 5 hours he drove my car trying to track the issue down.

Otherwise please don't bother commenting on my situation anymore.
It has been resolved to my satisfaction and I do not require anymore troubleshooting assistance from you Ron.
Feel free to help others in this thread I'm all set.

Last edited by mavstang73; 02-05-2012 at 10:39 PM. Reason: Spelling
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Old 02-05-2012, 10:41 PM   #780
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priceless

Your tubing doesn't care how detail oriented you are. Unless you put pressureized air in the system you can be as anal as you want and you still won't be 100% positive that you don't have a leak.

And don't worry. I won't help you anymore

But for everyone else....leak testing should be step number 1 in troubleshooting.
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Old 02-05-2012, 10:51 PM   #781
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Nm.........

Last edited by 96convt; 02-05-2012 at 10:58 PM.
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Old 02-09-2012, 11:17 PM   #782
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I've had builders tell me of finding many pinhole leaks in mainstream-make front intercooler tubing. Very hard to diagnose and prove - but once all those tubes were replaced, things ran well. They could only suspect a small leak through behaviour/logs. I think it hit a point where they just thought, well, lets try replacing all this stuff...

NB. I'm not intending to say Mavstang ever had such a problem; I think he deals in high enough quality stuff, and has swapped so much, and has a very good idea of what may be going wrong in his logs, etc. to judge if anything was obviously leaking.

I'm definitely just stating this for _general knowledge_. Leaks don't have to be at connections, and can be prevalent in stuff you'd generally think shouldn't even be questioned - such as solid aluminum tubing from an American parts maker.

Leaks tests are also very hard to diagnose closer to the head. Hard to get into that area to see, and hard to seal that individual runner area up against pressure if the valves are open.

My car is still "broken" after 10 months, and I think it has had 4 leaks tests, with smoke and without, and the full compression leakdown test. I even dumped the intercooler into a bathtub... lol. Nothing showed, yet the car acts like it has a vacuum leak. I've even taken the whole intake system off, and replaced all the gaskets and checked for holes with a light. But who knows... :-)

Anyway, just for some of those out there; don't forget that metal fatigue or bad casting can create leaks in what looks to be solid metal. And even a quick leak test may not be able to totally prove or show where something is leaking. I think the only definite way would be with the heads off, and the intake mounted to them, and the heads sealed to a couple solid plates, then put in a water tank at 30 psi. rofl. Oh, ya, a builder also said that to be sure of any leaks, I could take the timing belt off and roll the cams till all the valves in a cylinder were closed, and then check the lower parts of that intake area under pressure... sigh. That's the only way to be sure of the gaskets around the TGV area at high pressure. Sounds fun!
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Old 02-09-2012, 11:24 PM   #783
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^ You have an 08 STi....the hesitation is a normal occurrence on your car (08+ STIs)

Its the fuel system....they completely changed the FPR and damper setup. It can be tuned out, but the best way to deal with it is to switch to a 07 or prior FPR and damper setup.

Here's an email i got about 2 hours ago from someone with a 2011 STi who just swapped back to 07 and prior fueling setup

"Car feels extremely smooth. Basically if I punched the car when it was cruising at 2500 rpm it would shutter. Now it is smooth. Huge difference."

- phat ronald.
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Old 02-10-2012, 02:15 AM   #784
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Thanks very much for your information!

I am always very impressed by your dedication to helping us forum members out. I think Phatron is one of the best reasons for being in a forum. :-)

Unfortunately, this probably doesn't apply in my case. A long long way back in this thread, there is more info about my car - not that I expect any one to remember any of that. :-)

To refresh the pertinent areas.... I have nothing stock in my fuel system, other than the fuel pump basket and filter, and the two fuel dampers. I have a new AVO fuel pump, high-flow adjustable billet FPR, parallel perrin fuel rails, 3/8" lines, and 740 cc injectors, freshly cleaned. I have run a deatchwerks 300 lph fuel pump in a bucket outside the car, shorting out the fpr and fuel dampers, and it only makes the problem worse.

I don't have a hesitation as such, I have a cyclical "lean-surge" feeling incident, where the car idles and runs weak and rough for about 1/2 second, then surges/idles properly forward for one second, then goes weak and rough for 1/2 second... ad infinitum, when under very low load, and tiny throttle, and about 9 psi of vaccuum. It will do this at 2000 rpm and at 4000 rpm, given the proper circumstances. Such as 50 mph up a slight hill. I'm not sure, having no way to log at the time, but it must be under closed loop operation.

The fuel trim thing that is a major pain in the '08's has also been tuned out of my car. Took a couple days to tweak it. The car has had a custom dyno tune, and many more tweaks, by the person who tuned subarus to six Canadian National Rally championships, and I believe helped Airboy out with his open source solutions for the fuel trim problem.

I think I am now running a speed density tune, in order to help pinpoint whatever may be broken in my car. The problem, in my mind, is getting close to it just being an insane ECU. Exhaust manifolds, O2 sensors, intercoolers, fuel system, tgv deletes, all intake and exhaust gaskets, throttle body, MAP sensor, air pumps... has all been changed.

The car itself has a 3" catless TBE exhaust, perrin inlet, perrin CAI, deatschwerks 740cc injectors, AMR intercooler, various BOVs, colder iridium plugs, AVO 245 l/hr fuel pump, perrin fuel rails, fuel labs fuel pressure regulator, Ixis air/oil seperator, new PVC valve, new hose clamps on PVC system, injectors cleaned... and hours of tuning.

As an aside; The biggest change I got in making the car accelerate smoother under boost, (unrelated to my current problem), was to add two o-rings into the walbro fuel pump connection... then get rid of it and switch to the AVO. AVOs seem happier dealing with variable voltage.

I'd send you some logs, phatron, but it has an ecutek tune, so not much we can do. ;-) Plus, I haven't had the car in my possession for 10 months, now.

If you have any other ideas, I'm always delighted to hear from you. :-) Thanks!
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Old 07-15-2012, 03:03 AM   #785
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Well...
After 10 months and a bit....
and a couple months of testing....

My Car is FIXED!!


Who was the Dude who proposed wiring as a major suspect?? He was correct.

The firewall side harness to my front O2 sensor had corroded and started to short out, confusing the front O2 signal, with added mixed info with vibration. Low speed closed loop was basically psychotic - and not due to a leak, but due to a nervouse system condition that acted like a leak, lol

Chopping in ten inches of new wire, checking and refining the tune to match the new er parts, and the car ran in a nice, sane, manner. (I just gotta do this) hee hee.


Of course, a few weeks after, in an autocross course, the engine freaked out and went into total limp mode, all throttle position sensors voltage maxed, and temperature and MAF voltages maxed. Stupid main engine harness connector o-ring had folded over and was pushing out the pins from connecting. Man, if any thing electrical isn't perfect on these cars, they freak!!

Then 3 weeks later the clutch seems to have blown a bearing... still have to get it fixed.

But ya - the hesitation is gone - and not due to any tuning, fuel trim, leaks, or hardware issues - just a few inches of crappy wiring that can't take getting wet for a few months. In a car engine bay? What were they thinking???

Anyway people, if what you experience could be related to your front O2, but replacing it doesn't do much - it could be the wires after the O2 harness.

Thanks to Daluv, and mavstang, and Phatron, and all you other nice people, for trying so hard to help me out.
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Old 07-19-2012, 02:39 PM   #786
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So I decided to check my wiring today as curiosity often gets the better of me.

I didn't see anything wrong.
I'm really not sure how your wiring got corroded ESMbunny.
The signal wires for the front O2 are encased in a shielded wire that is grounded.
Its like having a copper suit of armor wrapped in plastic.

Really its quite nice to see that Subaru went through such trouble to ensure the sense wires wouldn't be affected by noise.


I had pm'd you about pictures but now I'm really curious as too "exactly" where you had corrosion and what wires.
I know you said 10 inches back but short of cutting through the insulation (which is encased in convoluted tubing, electrical tape, a plastic sheath, more electrical tape, and finally a shielded wire) I'm not seeing how this could happen.

So I'm thinking at some point Subaru got cheap and stopped wrapping the signal wires feeding the ECU in shielding. Probably 08+
On my FXT the O2 sense wires aren't the only ones encased in shielding. It's really quite nice.
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Old 07-19-2012, 03:42 PM   #787
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Hi;
I sent you a picture - but not much to show. :-)

My wires, as far as I can recall (I didn't perform the fix, so didn't cut them apart and splice in new ones) were just 4 normal wires in a corrugated split plastic tube, and the usual 4 wire semi-waterproof connector. They come out of the main engine wiring bundle just a couple inches from the main engine connector. No special dedicated cable run or shielding.

This O2 connector's original position was about 6 inches to the rear of my hood side vent. No direct rain, but very damp when driving. Something that any underhood connector should survive IMHO.

Everything went wrong after a ski trip that involved a lot of driving on salt roads, and parking at -25c for a few days.

What was cut out was the 4 pin connector, and about 10 inches of wire behind it. I don't know where the corrosion was, exactly - right at the connector would make the most sense.

Now I have shorter wires so the connector is closer to the firewall and further from the hood vents, and I have it placed closer to the turbo to stay warm. It sits beside the main connector, now, closer to the turbo.

It was probably about a 20 minute fix, if one was anal with the soldering. :-) I spent about $3000 trying to ix it with all the other stuff... Oh well, now I have fuelling and an intake that could support 600 HP, easy. lol.

Next step is a new turbo... but nothing too crazy, maybe an ATP GTX2867R...
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Old 07-19-2012, 05:46 PM   #788
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......

Last edited by spec_bg; 07-31-2012 at 07:33 PM.
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Old 09-06-2012, 07:11 PM   #789
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been awhile since i read through this thread but has anybody tried swapping out their ecu to see if that fixes it?
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